How profound this disease is. My subconscious is working overtime along with the meetings, prayers, literature and 24/7 meditation that I am not alone and attended by HP and others. Still the suggestion of mixing alcohol with my life is getting more persistent...Alcohol with Pumpkin Pie...(you gotta be kidding) Alcohol with breathing (That one I relate to), Alcohol instead of Oreo cookies; last night, shook it off but noted that the whisper has become a conversation level voice. I understand and see what might be significant triggers...night time and sweets. Night time has all kinds of suggestions. Sweets are a given huh? I'm not scared...I am concerned this is the only opponent that has brought me down and before I ceased fighting it brought me down at will. I have surrendered and abandoned myself to my HP...and still the Tiger awakes.
My mind is open and I am listening without condition. Its not about all the time for me its about this time...this one day...its about reaching out and listening.
In advance...Mahalo (Thank you) going to a meeting.
Jerry - thanks for sharing and helping me stay sober another day. You just did that. Remember Way Back When you were a newbie and an Old Timer would share that they were getting Stinking Thinking? Did that snap you back like I'm being snapped back right now? I am returned to naked humility by the threat of your Tiger. Remember that feeling? Naked humility.
You have done service to me & AA today. I hope it circles back to you, Friend.
Howdy, Well, when that happenes to me I do not argue with the voices. What they are saying after all for me is truth. I am alcoholic and I like the effects of alcohol. That said I in my mind drink the drink through , all the way through to my bottom. I feel it. If my bottom was sufficient I can say , No thank you to the suggestion of useing, ask the Higher Power for the gift of sobriety and move on.
Wow, seems like this so called Tiger at your door, or in your words your compulsion....seems to me you have been in this place a few times this year.....
You see those little signs all over the rooms, ThinK! Think! Think! As that was explained to me eons ago, by a man with about the same amount of time that you have now, for when I first read it, I did not get it, he was actually explaining it to three young new men in the program, and because it sort of baffled me, I just popped into the conversation, with my question.
And his description was sort of in line with what Toad wrote. Think! about it, think about the place it would take to to, in otherwords Think! it all the way through.
Perhaps because you came in after a long time of being in Alanon, you came in with 9 whole years of sobriety, well you were not drinking for those 9 years prior to coming into the Rooms of AA.
I will not tell you of my grim reaper almost looking me in the face, with the damaged body and felt like even my own soul was gone, no I will use what Toad chose to write, a Sufficient Bottom, but that image of that then shell of a woman and a human being stays clearly always there, front and center, for it is how I draw my daily humbleness to my Higher Power that I definitely call God, and say a profound Thank You to HIM, everyday of this daily 24 hour reprieve journey.
And as is always talked about FEAR is the underlying emotion of all Alcoholics, am wondering if Fear of something else might be nudging you Compulsion? Just thinking out loud, hope you dont mind.
Praying for you that this thinking goes, when you ask God to remove it.
One of my little favorites, my friend is:
FEAR KNOCKED
FAITH ANSWERED
And....no one was there.......
Ok Jerry, just trying to sooth your worries today.....
we all Love our Jerry, and Pray you have a Peaceful and blessed 24 hours, for the rest of today.
Your friendy from California ToniBaloney, haha, old habits, die hard :)
-- Edited by Just Toni on Saturday 12th of December 2009 08:12:48 PM
I think that little beastie likes to roar more during the holidays, so I take extra care to carry my big'ole AA club so I can bop it on the nose...hard...making sure I give thanks as HP gives it the final shove outta my head.
Quite often, though it's not the man eating tigers which get me, it's them fluffy bunny rabbits which can get to me more than anything. You know how it goes, we get something in our head which we consider is FAR too trivial to bother about, so we don't address it, don't share it, don't bother to ring sponsor, and in time, after a few more bunnies have come out to play WHAM!!!
NOTHING is too trivial to talk to your sponsor or an AA friend about, don't wait till the tigers come knocking at the door.
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Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
Hi Jerry, I dunno what to say except that I prayed hard daily for the obsession to drink be removed and associated the thoughts of drinking with evil. I prepared a script that I would go through when the thought of a drink would come up that would recall my "MO" and the progression that would happen given that first drink, crazy behavior, including drugs, infidelity, drunk driving, risky sex, jail, DUIs, STDs, unemployment, poverty, divorce, division of property, homelessness, total loss of self esteem/self worth, loss of family and friends, severe depression, and suicide.
Between praying and running the script everytime in my mind, I haven't had a serious thought of a drink since being 6 months sober (about 20 years ago). Now I did realize a correlation between listening to drunk-o-logs at meetings and thoughts of drinking/ drunk dreams. My drunk dreams persisted well past 10 years sober, but I haven't had one of those in over 5 or 6 years either.
So am I saying you should go to less meetings? No/maybe, but I would suggest going to more old timer meetings (where they talk more about spirituality, and alcoholic behavior rather than grass routes white knuckling sobriety. Perhaps try moving your meeting schedule around and go to less night meetings and more morning/nooners to help you think about other things (family/hobby...) in the evenings before you go to bed. Your dreams consist usually of what you're thinking about in the evening, and dreams carry over a bit into your conscious life. I also stay away from speakers meetings, beginners meetings, quite frankly, because I've been enough of them. I am little embarrassed to admit that I only get to a few meetings a month, and I don't recommend that, but it works well for me. I do have my routines and a sponsor that I speak to every week/ every other week depending and I have a half a dozen sober friends from day one that I talk to inbetween. And I of course have this board and you all, my sober cyber brothers and sisters.
Jerry, what does your sponsorship load look like? And are you sponsoring newer people? Maybe you can make some changes there. I'm really feeling that you need to do less instead of more to get some resolution to your drinking thinking, because it is unusual (for someone with a considerable amount of time) imo, and could, quite possibly, be coming from your environment instead of from inside your head. Last question, are you around drinking, as in friends/family? Or does your occupation place you in proximity to it? I'm very fortunate, being self employed, that I'm just not around it at all unless I'm out to diner with friends (or the wife has an occasional glass of wine) so it doesn't wear on my sobriety. I'm guess that I'm truly fortunate that I really don't ever think about drinking or smoking and I sorta take it for granted.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 13th of December 2009 08:32:36 AM
Hey Jerry, This is going to sound a little wierd, but here goes. When this starts happening to me I start praying for everything and everybody. I pray for the people putting the booze in the pumpkin pies and the people who hand out the oreos. I do this to more spiritualize my exhistance. I do this to make the point to myself that I am powerless over alcohol, and that it is only the spiritual condition brought forth by the program that slays the tiger. You really can't fight the tiger, only your relation with your HP saves you. In my wierd view, if our HP controls all, He also controls all around us, and therefore, I pray for my enemies. I pray for friends that are drinking to not succumb to alcoholism. I pray for the people that do not understand the alcoholic, and encourage me to have "just one". In short, when the tiger is scratching, I just turn up my spiritualism and I find that the moment passes with the side benefit being that I had another close encounter with my HP. Hope that helps!!! Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Was thinking of you last night, the amount of time, and all the meetings you go to, ALL newcomers meetings, you have mentioned that so many times, and I certain applaud you for the endless and devoted giving of yourself to the 12th Step, but also as you have stated many times, that you go so you won't have to be a newcomer again, right?
What crossed my mind that was might be missing is the concept of Balance....as Dean said, how about changing the meeting routine to a more Balanced one, like for every newcomers meeting, you go to a good meeting with others that talk about why they are there, like you for some time now, because of a Powerful force in their life, their own Spiritual condition....and that contingency that seems to go hand in hand with remaining Sober, another 24 hours a day.
What is that old saying, (not AA related, but could possible apply here) we are the company we keep.......that saying has always made a lot of sense to me....so maybe that damn tiger that all the new people are battleing has had some influence in your own life.....like another word, not AA related, but makes so much sense.....Transference.........I recall how that made so much sense when I was in the middle of doing endless Therapy, the theory being that the patient will take on some of the attributes of the Therapist.
In an AA approved Book, "A Gentle Path through the 12 Steps", a very powerful work book on the working of each and every Step in the 12 Steps....the author consistently made reference to what he believed the GOAL in all recovery, no matter what ISM that you were working one, the GOAL was alway BALANCE. He repeated that and stressed that Balance, just about in every two or three pages of this book.
Ok, Jerry, sorry, just little ole me thinking out loud about my friend Jerry, and cannot call you on the phone, so thought I would share some thoughts from my heart on you getting Help with the Keeping that Damn Tiger away from your Door.
Our sober lives are based on only one thing, our own Spiritual condition......turning to HIM, and staying with GOD, each and every time you begin to sense some animal approaching your door.
Hugs, and sorry for this long process I had to get off my chest this am, that is if you are still reading.....
Jerry, I also notice that you often say you "hang with relapsers" to keep it green and also because you are on a never ending search to find out why people relapse so that you can avoid it. To me, I think it is incredibly honorable that you give of yourself to people that do relapse, but it can warp your thinking as you watch people destroy themselves over and over again and convince yourself that you are just as vulnerable. Yes, we are all vulnerable to relapse, but...some of us are lucky that we do get the program and we work it to the point of growing healthier (but not over confident that we have ever mastered our alcoholism). I do believe you overpathologize yourself a little bit and I do this too. Remember to tell yourself how healthy you are and how much you give others. Also, I would devote time to hanging around other people with long term sobriety because that will keep you recharged. It is the oldtimers that have the most serenity, that have what I want and I need them just as much as I need to help others. I cannot keep my focus on worrying about relapse and trying to understand it. I am certainly afraid of it, but I don't let it consume me. I am just grateful I don't have to drink today. Too much focus on relapse, hanging around relapsers will only cause me to view myself as less healthy than I am. I need to believe I am recovering and am growing strong in order to have self esteem. I also need to have faith in a higher power and that involves sticking close to the people whose faith has given them long term sobriety. That rubs off on me. I'm rambling a bit, but I just think that you might benefit from seeing that you are one of the lucky ones to "get" the program and start transmitting that rather than fear of relapse. God doesn't want you to actively live in fear of relapse...only to not forget where you (and we) came from so that we don't repeat the same mistakes (because that is insanity). Anyhow, I just wanted to tell you that I view you as a strong person with solid sobriety and I just hope you are able to see that in yourself too.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I am grateful for all of the support and feedback here and grateful that I get to keep it on this computer to review over the next few days. I am also reviewing the information on the subconscious mind and alcoholism that our founders and their supporter also concerned themselves with. I have found a good site and will probably find one or two others. I am an analytical at my core and because of this program have also learned to become a practicer of what I have been taught by other recovering alcoholics such as yourselves. My home meeting is one I co-founded 16 years ago and is made up mostly of old timers. Two weeks ago at the Sunday version of that meeting (AA At the Bay is a Saturday and Sunday meeting) I brought up what I have brought to this version of my recovery and found the old timers there along with those of lesser recovery were also having questions about uncontrolled subconscious drinking thoughts and how the subconscious seems to keep running in the disease inspite of recovery practices and solid sobriety. What we have done is stopped our drinking on a conscious level. What we have not done is stopped our drinking on a subconscious level...those of us (many) who took part in the discussion.
Very few who took part in the discussion were relapsers although there were a couple. The size of the meeting is normally 40 or more regulars and in 16 years not to mention the 30+ years of my own personal recovery I cannot remember the subject of the presence of the subconscious mind in alcoholism being brought up and discussed until now. I had not found it in our literature until it was brought up and another caring member brought me her 24 hours little black daily reader and sat with me to read that is has always been a concern. That member was grateful because she recently received another 1 year chip.
My subconscious doesn't make me crave or idolize or lovingly recall the past. Fact is there was no "lovingly" about my past. My subconscious will not cause me to drinking without my own personal participation. My subconscious works at having me "consider or reconsider" drinking which in itself is a bit of a warp because this is the first time my subconscious has ever figured into the picture. I never had to think about drinking before...I just did it because I could do it. I use to use the conscious side of my brain to plan drinking events at times.
Anyhow I need the valueable feedback I have gotten here so that I can consider what works for others. My current sobriety is from what has worked for others. I am not craving or under the compulsion to drink nor am I having drinking dreams again. I am not entertaining subconscious thoughts of drinking. The thoughts are running themselves. I am powerless over Alcohol period. HP abides with me and MIP is proof of that.
