Good night. Thank you for helping me get through it, even if it was in my own disfunctional way. But i did it! I hope your rel is going to be healthy. Im scared for you because i never thought you would be so easy going with a rel that started with cheating. Ok, im never going to saY another thing about it!
Me:
We're not together yet.
My wife:
You said you had a girlfriend to me when i asked. More than once and on more than one occasion. But i guess you can't be together yet until she leaves her boyfriend who she is cheating on with you. I can't believe that you are involved in that situation. When you told me it totally changed my hope. Your rel will be starting from lies. Do those generally work? And it doesn't bother you to know she is a cheater? No matter how perfect and wonderful you think she is, and i know you do. She is cheating. That says a lot about what you don't know about her. Don't ignore the big stuff like that. And yes, she is cheating. And you know it. You cannot have a healthy rel when it started from lies. Because lying, and cheating, are not healthy relationship factors. They just aren't. Ugh, im sorry. I am not texting anymore. I really have a whole lot of work to do. But if i do the work, and when i am ready, i will be able to have a healthy rel that did not start at a bar with cheating. im gonna be careful this next time. Sorry! Sorry sorry. Im done.
Me:
Is there ever any guarantee that someone won't cheat on you no matter how rel got started? Did u cheat on me?
My wife:
Of course there is no guarantee. But there is a lack of trust when one starts on lies.
Me:
It's not like we're havin sex after all.
Gonna answer my question?
My wife:
Do not lie to yourself. She is cheating. And if what i am about to tell you will help you see what i am trying to make you understand, then it will be worth it to me.
My wife:
I am scared to tell you this. But i have to! Because you have no clue what you are getting into. And i wanted to never tell you. Because the thought of hurting you. Because i love you so much. Are you sure you want to know?
Me:
I already know. It's obvious. Might as well get it off your chest
My wife:
What do you mean its obvious?
Me:
I mean it's obvious u cheated from the way you're talking. But i do want to know the story
My wife:
What do you think you know? I will tell you the truth. Are you going to hate me? If so, i'll tell you anyway. Because i am not kidding when i say that i will accept that if it means you will understand what you are getting into. Ok. If you have a question tell me stop and i'll answer. And i am not going to lie about a single thing even though telling you this is shameful. Really really shameful. Ok..
Me:
....
My wife:
Im workin. This is hard. Give me another 30 seconds. But you didn't answer if you will hate me.
The thing i'll tell you first is the hardest. If you just want me to not tell more after that i won't. Ok..i cheated.I have been in diana's exact shoes. And i mean exactly. I cheated on you, and it wasn't a one night stand. I looked at your phone and i saw some of your texts to each other. And i know it was wrong. But i felt so happy for you because i can see you both really like each other. But when i found out that you were a part of another triangle but this time on the other end, it pissed me off. You don't deserve it. You are that wonderful. Next message coming..
Please answer if you are going to hate me so i can be prepared. I would hate me if i were you.
Me:
Hate is based on resentment. If i get a resentment from it i'll work with my sponsor on it because i don't want to drink
My wife:
Then from the beginning.. This is hard. last april i met someone at chuckwagon. At the time i felt, like i was happily in love with you. Like i always did. And he asked me if i was single and if i wanted to get breakfast and i said im married, but sure i'll go. And i truly had no intentions at that time. We went, that is when intentions changed. I did nothing with him. The next week i fucked him. This is hard for me to admit to you because it is the worst thing i have ever done in my entire life and i mean it. Next text coming unless you say stop.
Me:
April of this year or last
My wife:
Last year. When i was happily married to you. And sleeping next to you. Im sorry, glenn. Im sorry. I continued to sleep with him between 2 to 5 times a week for 4 months or so. And i kept telling myself that it had to stop. But i didn't. And as you know, i was having sex with you too. We were hiding our rel just like you are. I know sex is not involved yet, but she is cheating. And i can promise you that she is lying to you about what really is said and done between her and her man.
Me:
And we're talking about mikey or was it someone else
My wife:
Yes, its mike. I hate that it is him. But i am not gonna lie.
Me:
Ya there's been enough lying hasn't there. So what did you say to mikey about what was going on between me and you?
My wife:
Are you referring to my lying or hers? Im almost done with what i told him.
Me:
Your lying. Don'k know about hers yet that will have to be discussed later
My wife:
I know. I have been lying to both of you. But you didn't deserve any of that. None. The guilt that i feel about you i am unable to think about right now. It is impossible to build trust on a foundation of lies. No matter how much you want it to work. I know! It bothered mike that i was cheating. So i told him that i moved into the jewelry room. I acted like i was just done with you. I talked about moving out. I told him i did not have sex with you anymore. That i wasn't in love with you,
Me:
So ya done yet?
My wife:
With telling you? If you want me to be.
Me:
No i want u to go till you're done. Just didn't get some messages for awhile
My wife:
I know that what i did is the most selfish thing i have ever done. Are you filing all this away to use against me or something?
Me:
No i just want you to be as free of it as you can be
My wife:
I really don't care if you use it against me. I deserve it.
And i actually did move out. Not because of him. I did that for nate. But it made it a lot easier to cheat. On you and on him. Because at that point he believed we were a couple. And he was in love with me. He believed me that you were out of the picture. And i had many close calls. But neither one of you ever found out the true extent that i went. We were together off and on for Until just this september. We broke up all the time because he knew he couldn't trust me from the beginning and i could not seem to convince him for good ever. He would catch on a little i think, but i always convinced him he was throwing away what we had. Which was nothing. Except lies i made. I literally had separate stories for both of you. Generally, you got the real story. But it depended on what i wanted.
When it came to what i was getting from all this - I got from you what he couldn't give me and vise versa. And more than anything, i figured out how to manipulate men to get what i wanted without them even realizing it. I was able to almost be sociopathic because i can hide my feelings so well from myself. And i drank so much. When i needed you to help me cry, i mean, when i used you, it was almost always about what i was doing.
Me:
Sounds like you had a good reason to drink
My wife:
Did you get the last one? My phone turned off.
Me:
You mean when you were crying next to me in bed and i was holding u, you were crying about cheating on me?
My wife:
And if you think she won't cheat on you, maybe your right. But you watched her cheat already. You already know she is willing to do that. And god, you don't deserve that. And aside from the fact that i was with you too, i cheated on mike a whole bunch of times. And i felt about him like she feels about you. I saw things she said and what you said, and it was like looking at my messages with mike.
Sometimes. But if i told you why i was crying, that was why. If i didn't say anything, you would not have wanted to know cause that was about you. Obviously i am very very very messed up. Now do you understand why i am trying to not manipulate you? Its all I have done to you. I shit all over your love. You have been in my life the most sincere love giver. I can't believe i threw you away. We would have never even separated if it weren't for me. I would have tried to work through anger nate stuff.
Me:
Well it hurts but looks like it ended up hurting u more than it hurt me. So how can i hate u 4 it. I hope u will stay with ur program and i hope the best 4 u.
My wife:
Do you understand that i just told you all this, and i didn't want to, because i am that concerned about you getting involved in that? I know that you will never even consider me ever again now. I knew we were done but i sealed the deal. I wasn't sure if you would explode. But i was willing to take that chance because i know that you need to be aware. I could be wrong. She could be this dream girl you seem to have found. From someone else. And mike thought, and still thinks, i am his dream girl. But i am not anything like what he thinks i am. Do you understand the gravity of why i told you?
I am going to stay with the program. I don't want to do that to men. And im sorry to you most of all. And i really hope that me doing this at least opens your eyes to the significance of a rel that starts or is based on lies.
Me:
I understand and i appreciate it very much. I will have to think about all this. U need sleep now
My wife:
I know. Plus phone is dying. But i do want you to know that you were the best husband and the best friend. You deserve what you give. Now you understand why i always said that. Your ability to love someone is amazing. I always felt your love and when i get better, i want to be like that.
Me:
Ok baby one day at a time. Get sleep now u will need it
My wife:
I cannot believe i just did that.
I just lost you for the rest of my life. But you deserve much more than what i can give. And what diana can give.
Wow. I am hurting.
Me:
You will get better. If i could deal with my dad u can deal with this.
We were already done. But we'll still be friends. Diana is a lot like you she had a vietnam dad too. Maybe there's a connection. I hope you'll learn not to blame yourself and just accept what has happened and move forward
My wife:
Yes we were done. But still. I don't want to know about diana shit now. She is a liar. And you can work your way around it if you want. She is a cheat. You don't need that. It truly hurts me that you are trying to talk her up to me. Obviously she already is on a pedestal. I wish you understood how easy of a target you are. Good luck. I hope im wrong. Im sure she is nothing near my extent of deceit. But my god glenn! Wake the fuck up!
Me:
I wasn't talking her up. I was just noting that u were both daughters of vietnam vets. And ya i am an easy target. It sucks.
My wife:
Well, don't be. I actually dont understand why your even involved with a non single person. Thats not you.
Me:
Your point has been made. Go to bed
-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Friday 11th of December 2009 09:12:16 AM
Hrm FS...sounds like unfinished business. I would be really confused and not know what to do if I were you. It is very clear your wife wants you back now but that can't be the reason for her sobriety in completion. I can tell you are the one with more sobriety and I do read mind clutter of early sobriety from your wife just from the dialog. I'm thinking you got some praying to do on this one and wait and see how things work out. Don't rush into getting with a new person or getting back with the wife. It will become clear. Either way, that's some powerful stuff. BUT...50 percent of wives cheat and 70 percent of husbands so...gotta remember you are just in the minority now of one who finds out... It is good to have honesty though in all your relationships...even if it hurts. Wishing you peace,
Mark
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
So good to see you here, and thank goodness for the Program, and the steps that lead us out forevermore of this kind of drama, don't want to offend, but what I read sounded like so much mellow drama, just goes with the active drinking.....you sound so clear, and really detached from all that Drama, how cool that you wrote to her, what you would do with anger that led to a resentment, and a resentment would lead you back to... ut oh....to your Sponsor you would go! Powerful aknowledgement on your part...you sound good, and also wanted to say happy to see your former wife getting her 30 days, sounds like you two will remain friends, or not, dont know her, but know you and just how much the Program is now a living part of your life, wow, 10 whole months, 2 months to that first big Yahoo, and 10 months has a pretty big yahoo to it too.
Just saying how I applaud you are Using the AA Program, and your Sponsor.......you're the Bestest, Glenn, my friend...
Big Hugs, Tonicakes
-- Edited by Just Toni on Friday 11th of December 2009 12:29:50 PM
Oh, there's more! She was getting an abortion today because of the drunken rape some of you might remember. I decided to go there and support her in spite of everything. Guess who was already there? The guy she supposedly broke up with for good in September. Man I skedaddled straight to my sponsor's house. He helped me, he's a great guy with 11 years sobriety and some experience in cheating issues on both sides too... lol somehow I ended up with the perfect sponsor for me.
Unfortunately I somehow couldn't resist upsetting her while in her fragile state at the clinic because of numbnuts showing up. But I was hurting again. Well my pride was hurt I guess lololololol
And now after talking to Diana this morning and telling her I wasn't gonna be her "mikey" (or her fiancee's "mikey") here I am still deep in it talking to her. But I've made it clear that we need to both finalize our current relationships before there's any chance of discussing the beginning of my next sick relationship. LOL
ANALYZE THIS? Sounds like an ordinary conversation between two alcoholics who love each other in spite of it all.
I've played all three parts in the triangle-- I've cheated, I've been cheated on, and I've been the "other man." All while active in my disease, I should add.
Just keep working the program and praying for everybody else. Things will work out as they should, when they should.
The woman I've lived with for the past 8 years has played all three parts before she met me, too, also while active in her disease. Amazingly, we have absolute trust of each other. By the grace of GOD, we met when we were supposed to meet--- not a minute too soon nor a minute too late.
Super Squirrel, I hope you not thinking about giving this relationship another shot. My x-wife wasn't much healthier, although she wasn't sleeping with anyone while we were together. I made a few attempts at getting back together and I was miserable and resentful. My sponsor kept saying "why do you keep sticking your **** in the meat grinder and man was he ever right. Fortunately I was already attending codependents anonymous meetings. I decided to stay single for a couple years and wound up making it 3.5 years without getting in a "committed relationship". I absolutely changed everything I thought, felt, wanted, did, accepted, desired, and expected... in relationships. They are totally optional to me now and I can honestly say that if my wonderful wife of 16 years now lost her mind, I'd divide the property and move on. Keep your **** in your pants for awhile till you learn how to be that healthy person that attracts the same. If you find yourself overwhelmingly attracted to a woman (or man lol) Run Like Hell!
Dean
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 11th of December 2009 08:20:07 PM
Wow, what a compassionate, loving person you are. And from some of our Private Messages, I remember how you did not know how it would turn out, but she was still drinking, and you put your Sobriety, even then, early on, in front of any relationship.
Sorry that guy had to show up, you were just being supportive. I do recall the emotion of love, with my first husband, and when the "in love" faded away, when times got tough, they was clearly a new kind of love for him, always. Love changes, and takes on new aspects of itself. right.
Sorry, but happy too, that you had your sponsor to "skadaddle too" that expression was priceless, and perfect....
So happy you posted again, I do have to say I sure miss you around here on MIP, as I am sure all of us do, but I REALLY REALLY MISS YOU, AND YOUR HUMOR AND YOUR HONESTY....I do know that you are very busy these days.
Personally, Glenn i did not recall that Post about your wife being raped, poor poor dear soul, horrible experience that will stay with her, and then to get pregnant from that rape. My heart is hurting for her. Tell her that a female friend that lives in California, (dont forget to say where I live, tehe) also from the AA Program, sends her, her love and support for safe and loving healing....
More Bear Hugs to you my dearest friendy, Tonicakes
-- Edited by Just Toni on Friday 11th of December 2009 07:14:42 PM
Way to much 'stuff' for me to analyze. Much of it so childish ,its not even worth the read. Im with Stpetedean ... get yourself healthy and stay out of relationships until you feel comfortable sharing yourself with another healthy person.
LOL....the alcoholic in me just couldnt resist anything that was asking to be analyzed. Until I started reading. And thought, what am I doing???? I cant even analyze and interpret my own life, motives, choices decisions etc on my own. Why would I attempt to analyze someone elses? I would suggest you do what I do. Get out of my own head, talk to my sponsor, leave relationships alone for awhile (months not hours) and talk to and seek to improve your consious contact with God.
Squirell, Prayers for you and the ex! This too shall pass. Keep with the program and life will smooth out. The oscillations will modulate to a predictable pattern. Sounds like you are on the right path and when you can really pray for all the characters in this drama, your heart will heal. It sounds like you are there now or are approaching that point. Good Luck. Tom
__________________
"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Sounds pretty typical of any newly-sober alkie who has loved and lost!!! I sure can identify, and THANK GOD for my dear sponsor who I hated and resented with a vengeance when she told me, 'You know Avril, most of us use relationships just like we used the booze, and every time the relationship went tits up, we wanted to go back there, and how often have you thought THIS TIME, it'll be different'
She told me to regard old relationships which still looked attractive to me like a bottle of booze, and reminded me of how many times I went back to the booze believing'This time it will be different' She also helped me to start to develop a relationship with myself and the God of my own understanding, and I did so.
This said, I married an AA member, 13 years sober, and it lasted 5 years, (which was 3 years longer than it should have lasted) it was a bad mistake, BUT going through divorce sober was an experience I could learn from and grow from.
Today I am in a relationship of 10 years duration, and I feel like we were meant to be together, he is also in recovery, and we keep our time together completely separate from AA. We both have sponsors, both go to meetings regularly, and we both sponsor people and we live by one golden rule - when either of us takes a sponsor-sponsee call, the other gets out of the room, so we have phones upstairs and down, and we never, ever talk to other AA's by phone when the other is in earshot.
In fact, this is the only 'secret' in our relationship (well, as far as I KNOW it is, and I have no reason to doubt it)
__________________
Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
Glenn, Holy Moly. Two alkies Cleaning House is what I see. I see a treasure chest full of recovery & healing... in the middle of a mine-field. If I were in your boots I'd proceed with extreme caution with Steps, HP & Sponsor walking point for you.
Her confession and story is all-too-familiar. It will be good when the Promise of "neither regret the past nor wish to close the door on it" comes true for you both. We alcoholics do a lot of damage to ourselves and others when we're in the throes of our insanity. So desperately do we try to fill the God-Shaped-Hole in our souls that we later come to know as Alcoholism.
When I had just about a year, had moved back to California, and thought I was still very much in love with my second husband, so much so that I traveled back to the State of Washing to try a reconciliation.
(From what others are writing to you, have to say that i did not get at all that you were thinking or wanting to go back to your wife, i call her that because you still are not divorced right??) anyway, I see that you still care about her as a human being.)
Anyway back to my little story of my second marriage, and the returning to Washington, I had read a book entitled "Co Dependant- No More!" A very very powerful book on the subject, and when I did return to Washington, it only took a few months to see that as a Sober person now and putting my sobriety first in EVERYTHING, it was that book, and the power of that book, that helped me see how codependancy played such a role in my own emotions.
I was really interested in reading that book from cover to cover, for in the first page of that book it Stated, that it was a disease, just like Alcoholism, or any other dysfuntional disease, that has to power to Kill us.......
It made me take a long breather in looking for a man to fix me, or what i thought then to complete me.....I learned how to have a relationship with my Higher Power and was shown how to be ok with just being alone, and really enjoying it.
I considered myself lucky that I never got involved ever, with someone on the Program, my Sponsor had drilled into me, if you find yourself really really attracted to a man in the rooms, never ever go back to that meeting.....and laughing now cause you have no idea how many times I had to change meetings, then I got use to see men in a different light. I think my co-dependant nature has self-adjusted to healthy, and only wanted to date, if at all someone that was NOT in the program, and was not looking, but did eventually date men, but at around the three year mark.
So again Toodles, hope all is well with you today, hope you have one great 24 hours today....
Well the end result of it all was, after I sent Diana the entire thing you all read and told her I wasn't gonna be "mikey" anymore, she told her fiance about her affair with me, broke off the engagement and moved out. I said my goodbyes to Rainbow and told her that I could no longer be a sober support person for her because it was too dangerous for my own sobriety. It's probably a mistake, but I'm going to continue the relationship with Diana.
So FS, if you know that it's probably a mistake then why are you going to continue seeing someone that was cheating on their fiance' with you? I see you treating this like it's all about the other people's problems but you attracted, picked, or where picked by these people and accepted their behavior (still accepting). You were a part of this other guy's pain. You can't work on you while you're in a relationship. It's like trying to fix your car while you're driving it down the road. Hiding in dysfunctional relationships is a mood altering event that can have life damaging consequences. Many codependents take their life, over the stuff that you just posted, either directly or indirectly. How can you build healthy self esteem (and expect to get/stay sober) when you are shagging with some other dudes fiance? I would think that you'd know how that feels. It's time to man up and go it alone for awhile. Trust me you'll be happier without all that drama in no time.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Monday 14th of December 2009 07:16:11 AM
I guess so. :( I already broke up with her, (assuming I can make it stick), much quicker turnaround than my usual 2 years of misery before finally ending a sick relationship.
Secret squirrel, get yourself a male siamese cat and remain a bachelor for a year or two. He'll be the best friend you've ever had. Mine is named Mojo and my wife routinely comments about how I must love "that cat" more than her. I tell her when you can give me as much unconditional love as he does, then that'll change. lol
I think of mine as more of a mini-panther. Mark that one's not actually mine but bares a very close resemblance. notice how proud that cat is. Mine is a model of self esteem for me. lol
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 20th of December 2009 08:52:13 AM
