The original 13th Step

Dave Harm · Senior Member

The original 13th Step

trudger164 · Member

Dave, Thanks for the post and question. I have read what you posted and also a follow up. Because the thirteenth step was into the grave, hooking up at meetings with a new and vulnerable member of the opposite sex for sexual purposes often led the bewildered newcomer back to the bottle and ultimately the grave. I guess this helping someone to their death was at sometime then referred to as thirteenth stepping.

However I think it unfortunate that some people take this beyond the sense of reason and ridicule anyone even talking to a newcomer at a meeting or welcoming a new member to the fellowship. This can also plant an inappropriate idea of working together for a common purpose. To me an alcoholic is an alcoholic within the rooms of AA. When it is taken to the personal level is when it becomes troublesome for both participants. Neil

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha Trudger...I don't know the original history of the 13th step but I do know what the
present reference means and have made amends for the practice of it at times in the
past. I once use to understand it as trying to chase a high that was higher than my
higher power. I also came to understand it as a partial relapse...not drinking the whole
drink, just going to the party. There of course is no such thing in this program. I don't
get to have only one without the entire consequences...insanity or death.

In support smile

jasperkent · Senior Member

I always figured that 13 = 1 + 12, thus:

My life is unmanageable and I'd like to share it with you in an unprincipled affair!

Love y'all.
Glad yer here.
Keep coming back.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

It's not an opposite sex thing in my fellowship.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

then there are the "14th steppers" who are one step ahead of all the other "13th steppers"

Glenns · Veteran Member

I don't care about that unwritten 'one-year' rule regarding relationships; if a girl wants to go out on a date, I'd go!
This is the only instance when I'd violate sage, AA advice.

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

I don't think sage AA advice is to live like a monk, more to put your sobriety first. For me a messed up relationship is a big old hazard. It's taken me years to learn that I don't die from a messed up relationship.

But there is and should be sage advice to prevent predatory behaviour.

Dickson · Member

I like this step in its original form. I hope that One Day at a Time, I to, may follow the step as many of the old timers before me have.

Now....Its present meaning. Being married twenty nine years. I never looked for that type of a relationship with another AA. I have many girl friends but, no girlfriends. I know that for me to seek that balance we all should be striving for. An intimate relationship between both sexes is important. I get, two newcomers having relationships. One who has accrued any sort of time knows this is wrong. Thus, having a relationship with a newcomer is an act of selfishness not selflessness. One can rationalize where it would be alright and as I have told many of my brothers. You claim you really care about the person, then give them a year and see what you think then. There are plenty of women in AA with time looking for their soul mate. Look them up or is it the fear of a woman with her head in the right place, stopping the thirteenth stepper. More often than not. In the end you must live with it. Seek your Higher Power he or she or it knows what is right.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Of course all of this gets away from Dave's original point about the 13 step being the spiritual journey after death. I am reminded that in life we cannot achieve perfection, but we can when we pass away and are with our higher power as one. Not to be morose, but this is a comforting thought in a way.

ljc · MIP Old Timer

Thanks Dave for the history that I was unaware of ... the 13th step not being a sexual predator thing.

It has always been my understanding that there really isn't any 13th step in AA. ( meaning the sexual interpretation of it ).

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Last night at a meeting we mourned the death of a member's father who "never got the AA message" even though he did live to be 81. It was shared that he died with many people angry at him...most of the family except for his daughter that is in the rooms. My grandsponsor shared that this woman's father "gets it now" and that now he understands everything and is not struggling, not baffled, not confused because he is with God. It was moving. I feel lucky to have received help from AA before my life became more and more tragic. I also was amazed that this woman was able to be there for her dad in the end when no other family member was. That is a gift of AA and sobriety...to be present.

leeu · MIP Old Timer

This is a comment form a cybersober friend:

My understanding of the 13th Step came from Dr. Bob and The Good Old Timers, in which (sorry, don't have the book handy) two of the members did "IT" on the examining table at Dr. Bob's.

The idea being that you were supposed to do all the Steps, wait a year, (so's your romancin' didn't cause you to compromise and slip) and then consummate your sobriety, huh?

Linda111387 · Newbie

I personally like the 13th Step as crossing over after had a full life following the 12 principles of Alcoholics Anonymous however if you read dr. Bob and the good Old-Timers page 97 and 98 a story about Victor and Lil is the first mention of the 13th Step in print it's a great book

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Welcome Linda, ...

Thanks for your post ... Now I have to go dig out my old book (Dr Bob and the Good Old-timers) and refresh my memory ... Glad you joined us ...

God Bless,
Pappy

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to the forum, Linda.

Good story.

DeadDog · Newbie

Linda111387 wrote:
I personally like the 13th Step as crossing over after had a full life following the 12 principles of Alcoholics Anonymous however if you read dr. Bob and the good Old-Timers page 97 and 98 a story about Victor and Lil is the first mention of the 13th Step in print it's a great book

So i got the book and read pages mentioned and wanted to clarify what it implies....

Lil was trying to shove pills in her mouth as Victor chased her around the table to try to stop her of taking the pills. At one point she tried to jump out the window of the examination room and (Implied imho) would have killed herself. as the story goes one Bill simply says he felt at the time, and what happened with lil, that dealing with women was a worrisome deal.

nothing about sex is in this as i read it..... the reference they have to the "Thirteenth Step" was her dying by jumping out the window..... period.

Love to hear what others see when they read this story completely. I want the truth not just tradition ...

FlyingSquirrel · Senior Member

I got into four relationships in fairly quick succession, beginning at 9 months sober. Pretty sure the first three were active alcoholics, in retrospect. Not too bright, but fortunately I did get out of each of those within a short time. The fourth relationship was with a normal drinker, and we are still together now (more than 9 years later). Just my experience...

-- Edited by FlyingSquirrel on Monday 1st of February 2021 06:32:56 PM