Opinions on "tough love"

rgmarbles · Newbie

Opinions on "tough love"

Just Toni · MIP Old Timer

Hi There,

I am single, so no relationship advise,

But the suggestion.... the Solution to ALL your drink related problems are
MEETINGS, MEETINGS, MEETINGS.

90 IN 90 DAYS, will change things more than you can even imagine. All for the Better....Promise, Pray that you will go.

Toni

BGG · Senior Member

Welcome to M.I.P. In reading your post, I can't help but think of one of our A.A. slogans: Easy Does It!

As Toni said, your primary purpose right now must be your own sobriety, and that means diving full into A.A.: daily meetings, getting a sponsor, working with your sponsor through the 12 steps. Whether or not your husband stops drinking or not, is supportive or not, etc. cannot be your concern right now.

Do you have the "Big Book" yet? If so, you might want to read the chapter entitled "The Family Afterward". I found this chapter particularly helpful in the beginning in dealing with close relationships with people not in recovery.

Please keep checking back in here, and let us know how you're doing.

Love,

BGG

jasperkent · Senior Member

Listen to Toni and BGG.

Meeting makers make it. I suggest AA for you and Alanon for him. If he refuses to go, don't try to force it. These are programs of attraction rather than promotion. As you heal, you will find yourself being able to handle situations which used to baffle you.

From what little I can gather, he does sound codependent. Those are the kind of people who are attracted to us, of course. Our sobriety can be threatening to the status quo, but if nothing changes we die of this disease.

I am not a fan of so-called "tough love." To me, it's more tough than loving. However, I am not in the position to give you relationship advice-- what I say to you won't change him, anyway. I do know that all growth is painful.

Get to a meeting. Repeat.

Love ya.
Glad yer here.
Keep coming back.

-- Edited by jasperkent on Friday 27th of November 2009 06:28:36 PM

Just Toni · MIP Old Timer

Hi Again,

On the subject of Tough Love, I am for it, that is a term usually aimed at parents dealing with kids, and sometimes adults, but just my opinion here, I dont think your analogy of tough love in your situation, really applies.

And before I posted the first time, I went back to page 2, where you had signed in originally, and because so many people dont seem to be around today, I would suggest you might want to go back to that original Post, all those wonderful suggestions by so many, that might make you feel better for just today.

Just Hoping with all my heart that you can get to a meeting, in very early recovery, our emotion are all over the map, I used to call it Kaladiscope thinking, that is pretty normal.

Praying that you will go back to page 2 read all of the suggestions, especially Dean's with his highlighted connection to the Big Book of Alcoholics Anoymous.

You did not put your name in so will call you rgmarbles for now, but what I wanted to tell you dear, we do this together, and I am including you here, for sure, WE cannot do this alone.
I tried doing it my way for about 10 years, slid right down into the gates of hell. And when i finally did Surrender to God, to this AA Program, have to say, I have not had a need to pick up a drink in over 19 years, YOU can do this, believe with all my heart that you can.

A giant Hug to you dear,

90 meetings in 90 days, getting a Sponsor, begining the Steps, the first one has to be done perfectly, that is the only one, the rest are in your own ability with a good sponsor.
Step One, 'WE are Powerless over Alcohol....Our lives have become unmanagable"

Hope so much to see you back soon dear.
Toni, (could not get out of the bold type, sorry)

toodles....

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hello RG.

Well there's a couple of things going on here. You sig other is losing a drinking partner. He really would like it better if you could drink "normally" instead of quitting. Typically these drinking sig others are in denial about the alcoholic's drinking and either consciously or subconsiously tries to sabotage their sobriety. The other dynamic is that when you get sober they fear that they might lose control, because, face it, a drunk is much easier to control. He needs time to adjust, and you need to go about your business of getting sober and not worry about what he thinks. You can tell him to mind his own business when he is telling you what to do.

I was in the same situation with a drinking wife, that I lived with for two years, while I tried to get sober. She refused to go to alanon or to refrain from drinking/keeping alcohol in the house. After two years of not "getting it" I got a new sponsor who suggested that I try getting sober on my own, whether that meant separation or divorce was not discussed, but I agreed with him and got separated, got sober, then got divorced. It was the right thing to do. Two decades later, very very very happily married (16 years) to wife #2. My X is still drinking and miserable. It's very clear now that we were vastly incompatible and way more so after I got sober. Good Luck.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 27th of November 2009 08:23:43 PM

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Welcome back to MIP, rgmarbles. You're in the right place. In regards to tough love I will give you my take. It is tough to take responsibility for ourselves. It is tough to realise that we have a choice about how we respond to life around us. It is tough to realise that we cannot control other people & it is tough to begin to want to change & not know the first way to do it. This is a simple & effective program. I will warn you it is not easy. It takes persistance, a measure of 'blind' faith, willingness to follow in the footsteps of others even if we think it might not get us our own way.

Regardless of whether your partner is codependent or not, alcoholic or not.. There is one person's alcoholism & codependence we need to deal with & that is our own. You said that you were enjoying sobriety & then 'his indifference made it all seem so futile'.. There is an example of your own codependence where you gave your power away depending upon the reaction of another & throwing away the rewards of your own recovery. I hope you will begin to do this recovery & sobriety effort for your own sake. It is your own life that hangs in the balance.

I say this with the utmost of love & I will make some tough truths because I feel you can take it. You are stronger than you realise & you can hear what you have to do for you. Your partner will be acting by his own experience & if you can gain acceptance around that then you will return his right to be however he is to him. The main difference in this being that this is a surrender for you & a letting go of expectation of what you may want from him. Bill W mentioned that any expectation comes with a dependency attached that causes us pain in the clinging to it. I can't find the exact quote but it will be a freedom for you if you can let go with love & sit firmly in your sobriety saddle for you.

I know you may have been feeling grief or numbness for quite some time now & you may even be in shock still from the incident where you blacked out & came to in a police situation. That must have been a frightening but grateful wake up call. It is true what Dean said that you have to seize this program & fellowship for all your worth before you give up & decide it's too much for you or that maybe you just don't 'need' it. Getting well takes honesty, discipline & determination. It also takes alot of honest sharing & trusting in others when we feel vulnerable. This is how we get real & in getting real we can work through our emotions without the destructive anaesthetic of alcohol & this is how we can heal.

We are here for you at MIP & in meetings. Find a woman you feel safe with & ask her about the steps. Ask her if she has a good working knowledge of them & if she can take you through the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous. This program takes work & commitment so it may take a little while of listening out for someone who knows what's deeply involved. It is a program of unconditional love & responsibility which gives us our power back through a loving Higher Power however you perceive that to be. I wanted alcohol to fix, change, move, make better, express & heal me. Today the program does all of this for me when I work it & share it with others.

I was looking for a shift in my outlook. I wanted to stop drinking & to stop suffering. I wanted to learn how to grow up & be strong in myself. I wanted to learn how to live life to the best of my ability without ever having hide again in drink. Drinking is dangerous for me. I'm an alcoholic & I can never guarantee my behaviour in drink. I am never able to truly control how much I take & I can never swear I won't take that next drink because when I had a mental obsession that is where it would always take me, back to a drink.

Today there is no excuse for me to take a drink. I have too much that this way of life has given me to throw it all away on a dangerous whim. I have to be vigilant & keep in good spiritual condition but early doors I certainly could not do this on my own. I needed help. With your help too I have it fixed in place today. I know where & how my defences work. I know what I can do to create insurance against that next first drink but this all only came with practice & practice makes progress.

You're not alone, dear sister. Let your partner be however he is. He is acting on his own pain & struggles. The only thing you can do is to concentrate on your own recovery & pray for more to be revealed. It gets better. You've had a two week taste. When I first tried to get sober I seemed to only be able to go two weeks. After my fourth slip I realised I had to do something different. I upped my meetings, I took female numbers & I used them.

When there came a moment when I seriously thought there was no way past I picked up the phone to my sponsor & hit a meeting. 'As if by magic' I came home that night sober & I could hardly believe it. It was my first push over the threshold of pain in sobriety & I began to realise that something extraordinarily miraculous was at work in my life.

We do our best & God does the rest. You can do this. You can feel this pain & push through. Tough love has been unpleasant for me particularly in my past but it helped me to grow. Pain being the touchstone of progress. It was a leveling of my pride. The humility in accepting & realising consequences for my attitudes & behaviours & my utter lack of control over how long these ripples would last. Pain helps us to grow my sister & you are not alone. We do this together. God will not give you any more than you can handle. You can do this & grow through. I have utter faith in you.

Godbless. Keep coming back, Danielle x

jonijoni1 · MIP Old Timer

We have to do this on our own. We can't be concerned at first, how our drinking has made people react in upsetting ways, or that some people have stepped back from us a bit. We spent a very long time insuring that we would eventually be isolated due to our behavior. It takes a long time to gain peoples' trust back, and for resentments- theirs AND ours- to be mended. Many people in our lives had every right to be upset, distant, indifferent when we start to make a trunaround. No one thinks it will work at first, and why should they?

Just stay sober today, and do that every day, just 24 hours at a time, and all will work out, boyfriend or no boyfriend. They do seem indifferent at times, because they don't understand why it is so HARD for us to live without alcohol once we first start recovery. They think to themselves, "It's not THAT big of an accomplishment... if I can go a few days or weeks without drinking, why can't she?" They just don't understand how hard it is. But us other alcoholics do, that's why it is said, that "only an alcoholic can truly help another alcoholic to stay sober. It is hard at the brginning, but it does get easier, and you think about it less over time, and someday you will not even WANT it. Just stay sober and keep coming back.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

In my experience, I learned I am the one who is both alcoholic and codependent. When drinking, I attracted both. I still have problems with people pleasing and thinking my life is not meaningful if I'm not in a relationship, but I am way better than I was a year and a couple months ago. We all have to learn to take care of ourselves on our own because the reality is that we can find ourselves single (not by choice) at any time and we need to be able to be self-sufficient. My drinking patterns would escalate tremendously at times when I was in a relationship that was making me unhappy...Today I am learning how to choose relationships that do contribute to me being happy, but the relationships can't define me. It is sad that we don't always find the type of support that we would want or even need from spouses and significant others. They would probably react differently if we had a more tangible disease. But...it is okay. You have to remember that you are at the hardest part now. It is like you just ripped a bandage off a wound and now it is bleeding. When you drink, you stop it from healing. Yes, there will be rough times down the road, but good times too. Staying sober is going to prepare you to be able to handle what you need to handle in life. This only works though if you follow the program as thoroughly as you can. Take care, RG and know we are here for you.

Mark

soberjulie · Veteran Member

It's my significant other, who seems to believe that being mean and harsh is the way to go ......
Sorry, but its not your SO thats your problem, its you.

and that only makes me feel worse, as he pulls away.....HE thinks it will catapult me into recovery; um, no.......Obviously, he has no desire to research alcoholism......can anyone say CODEPENDANT??
Doesnt matter what label you attach to him and his behavior. The fact remains that recover from this seemingly hopeless state of mind and body means that you need to focus on YOUR alcoholism, not his reaction to it.

Is his being this way productive??
It isnt his job to find a productive way to motivate you in recovery. Its your job to ask your higher power to motivate you towards recovery.

When I am trying not to drink, and he is so distant, it only makes me want to drink more to (yes, I know) escape the pain.
Thats your disease talking to you loud and clear. "Come to me...I will relieve you of all this pain and anger and frustration. I will numb you." Horsepoop. Look your disease in the eye and tell it you are going to a meeting so it can shut up for at least an hour.

Yes, I am getting ready to cry right now........
So cry. Have a good sob. Let it out. Crying wont kill you....but a drink might.

I was enjoying sobriety, but his indifference made it all seem so futile.....
More horsepoop. He doesnt have the power to make you enjoy or take away the enjoyment of sobriety. You decide that stuff. Not him. Its your disease talking to you again.........

(Yes, here she goes with the "excuses." Sorry.....don't we all do it???) So, is his approach acceptable?? He will never GET it. He is a drinker, although social, as opposed to my closet drinking.....and has said he will never give up alcohol.....Guess that shows how important the relationship is to him......

Wow...you made a whole lot of assumptions there. Here's something easy does it for ya: Put him in Gods hands and get your butt to a meeting and talk about those feelings. Keep talking. Ask for direction. Then be willing to do as you are told.

I know my family cares about him, but obviously about me more.....Crap! I'm sick of trying...and I guess that's why I drank myself into a stupor the other day, after 2+ weeks of being sober......
You drank yourself into a stupor because you are an alcoholic. Thats it. You want to get better? Then get to a meeting, quit making your alcoholism about other people and how they make you feel and go pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools they will lay at your feet.

Needing advice, friends.....
Im praying for you. Its there for the taking my friend. Now go and get it. You are worth it!

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Aloha RG...My kinda story...in fact its part of my story. I'll play his part and I'll even
tell you No you're not an alcoholic so the fixing can all be left up to me. I will teach
you how to drink properly even though if you follow how I drink it might cost you
your life.

You don't drink because of him. You drink or redrink because you want to. You
have the compulsion to. The bad feelings afterward are part of the allergy to
fulfilling the compulsion.    Tough love Rules!! Rocks!! Works!! and like our
program of and for sobriety it has to be learned. Tough love can be worked
with (or upon) others and also with (or upon again) ourselves.   Not taking the
next drink and going to a meeting instead is Tough (self) Love. Making a phone
call to a sponsor when you're inches away from the next drink is Tough (self) Love.
Doing 90X90 (90 meetings in 90 days) is Tough (self) Love. The consequences of
this kind of love? You're life revolves into a miracle and its still not about him
its about you and your sobriety.

Tough Love with him or others is allowing him to come to the understanding that
you are the boss of your own happiness and that you love him and like having
him around (at times) but...you don't need him. He's that important!! You over
criticize yourself and your drinking more and better than anyone else. His self
appreciation from your problem isn't a necessary requirement for your sobriety.
You drink for you and you get sober for you and most of us do it or have done
it with Tough (self) Love. We erect boundaries between us an alcohol. Program
and sobriety first and then...Program and sobriety first and then...Program and
sobriety first. I came to a sober understanding that there was no written or
spoken law that said I had to drink and then I didn't. I came also to the under
standing that even while there was no law that said I had to I was going to
needed the love, help and support of others who had learned how not to.
Rather than love to do anything else I chose to love myself and come to and
stay in the program. Sometimes Tough Love for myself has been staying.

Keep coming back...Try what the others here have done.    smile