maybe im missing something in all this (likely). AA isnt supposed to have opinions about anything other than alcohol. People that come to AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) for addiction purposes other than alcohol are barking up the wrong tree. Not that AA is a cold shoulder situation, but like skg said- if you have the desire to stop drinking, you are welcome. That is simply not true for some people, pointe blank. They arrive addicts, this is true, but like i said, if it was a buffet-style recovery system there wouldnt be the need for NA, CA, SA, etc. A drug is a drug is a drug is bs. A meth addict will tell you its somewhat different being addicted to meth than being addicted to marijuana or watered down opiates.
My sole point, which im sure will be stretched to some absurd level...was whether an "AA sponsor" who freely admits that alcohol wasnt really what got them into sobriety, AA just "felt" better than NA, according to him. That bothers me, because i didn't expose myself to AA by default, or because i thought "oh what the hell, it has to be better than CA or whatever" It seems disrespectful in a way, im sure that will be argued to my selfish nature in some way. Can we not just be black and white about it? Alcoholics go to AA meetings, narcotic addicts go to NA, sex addicts go to SA, etc. AA shouldn't be THE 12 step program for comulsive (add whatever you want). Its about alcohol, right? Or it is about some ephemeral, "addiction" philosophy. Just saying, AA sponsors should have experience in Alcohol Addiction, period, imo. What do I know though right? Im just a drunk, so dont listen to me.
Hey Dods, AA is for anyone who wants to stop drinking. Yes, it gets confusing when you throw in all the other human vices we carry with us to begin with. There is no perfect mechanism for making perfect people.
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I dont think I understand completely ... are you referring to your own Sponsor ? Or do you just have a resentment against somebody ?
I am not in agreement with ' a drug is a drug is a drug '. No matter what science says or whoever. ( Im not sure but i think that little slogan is NA )
If somebody were to lay out a line of cocaine, along with a joint, and a few vicadins, and then place a beer next to them all and tell me a drug is a drug is a drug . Id say No, its not to me. That beer is not a drug to me. Im an alcoholic and I consider booze a drink.
This person you are talking about Dods may not be aware of or understand the 12 traditions of AA. Or , they might be aware of them , but they dont care.
There is a phamplet called Problems other than alcohol. I think, but not sure that it might help with this particular situation you are referring to.
Dodsworth, you are completely correct in theory. Bill W even gave a talk on this very subject. His message was about singleness of purpose and being available to the newcomer and not confuse them. Addicts are certainly welcome, I think it's just respectful to not get long winded about other addictions. On the flip side of the coin, many (maybe most) people are cross addicted and can benefit form hearing a bit about it. However your sponsor got clean (and sober) by using the same 12 steps and I wouldn't discount his wisdom based on just his qualifications to be here. You may be looking for a way out of working the steps.
My .02... I am an alcoholic. I've also abused every drug under the sun except DMT, PCP and Ecstasy.
For me, AA has been an "umbrella" program. I no longer feel naked without drugs of some kind in my posession. Steps 2-12 keep me from getting high daily. While drugs are just a phone call away, an AA buddy is also just a phone call away; and that phone call ends better!
When I did other drugs it wasn't as regular a habit as drinking, but the God-shaped hole in my soul is what they would fill.
What I'm saying is that everyone is different and my experience won't be your experience, but by approaching steps 2-12 with an open heart and a quiet mind...I can fill that God-shaped hole today with God, not a buzz.
Sober Today by Grace, Rob
Oh yeah - Dodsworth; Please don't sabotage yourself. Don't rush to judgement. This is a simple program for complicated people. It's a lot easier to follow the well-worn path of the millions who have gone before us, than to hack our own way through the jungle.
-- Edited by Aquaman on Thursday 19th of November 2009 02:20:40 PM
I haven't had much problem with the cross addicted nature of meetings and the program of AA. All I notice is that relapse rates seem higher for those addicted to drugs. Most of the people who have Crystal Meth, Pain Pills, or Coke/Crack as their drugs of choice do state that it usually starts for them with a glass of liquor or a beer and then they wind up with a crack pipe in their mouth or whatever real quick. So basically they seem to share the same philosophy that it starts with a drink and where that takes them....off to the races as they say. I would like to say I'm purely just an alcoholic, but I am not. I abused other drugs and I am glad to know the potential is in me and I am really an addict as well as an alcoholic because I have the capacity to switch addictions if not careful. The way I smoke and drink coffee is proof enough alone of the fact that I have a straight up addict in me. I know people who have given up alcohol but replace it with heavy pot smoking. They don't have the car accidents and as much of the messy crap going on as they did when drinking, but they don't grow like we do in the program trying to be sober....or at least that's what it seems to me. Addiction in general is cunning baffling and powerful. The amount of people I have seen go out from having back pain or surgery and then getting totally hooked on painkillers is staggering. I know I have that capacity in me cuz most people go to sleep on a lot of pain killers and I would be all euphoric and took them like candy whenever I got my hands on them. In either case, Alcohol is the substance that completely wrecked me, got me in the most trouble, had me most whipped...it is the one that when I started, I could not stop at all. So I am more pure alcoholic than most people even I know in the program. When I listen to some people with a more hardcore drug history (mostly newcomers), I am grateful I don't have the same triggers. I can get a pay check and have money in my hand without immediately thinking about calling a dealer or going to the seedy side of town. So I count my blessings.
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I suppose we all our our different views on this issue, but to me it is and has been for a long long time, a complete non-issue.
I don't drink one day at a time, and to my HP that I choose to call God, I Thank HIM daily for HIS Grace in giving me another sober day....
I was cross addicted to presciption valium took 2 every morning for really bad hang over. And I did that Valium withdrawal cold turkey, (definitely not recommended) and I made it through and somehow Recovery finally could be seen in view, well almost over my own dead body. But to this day I still say, just my little opinion, a drug is a drug is a ....think my lastest is just to me, it's all Brain Frosting.......that is how I felt the effects of heavy valium use. Like a slow slithering substance, knocking out all the negative hangover effects, and over a lot of other stuff that I really could not afford not to have functioning. But I digress, that is why i call this topic, just for me, a non issue.
I tried for about half an hour to find How it Works, I did of course find it in my Big Book, but I wanted so much to print the whole thing out from the online BB. and it would not allow me to copy and paste. That to me, would have been the best response to this Post. But again, that is just me with my own thoughts in this awesome Recovery adventure.
Sure hope you will join us soon, back in the Program, working the steps and as every one has said like you were before going to Europe.
Hugs to you dear, Toni
-- Edited by Just Toni on Thursday 19th of November 2009 07:24:52 PM
Kinda funny...there is a monster thread going on now on Friends of Bill on this same subject...people are all kinds of hot and bothered arguing and debating!
I don't get it...thre is nothing ambiguous about AA's singleness of purpose, based on 12 steps offered as a program of recovery for....guess who....alcoholics.
I'm clean off drugs as well as my alcoholism being in remission, but I wouldn't dream of indulging in a drug-a-log at an AA meeting. I know multiple addictions are basically just a big social shift in our culture today, and so-called "pure" alcoholics are indeed becoming more scarce. But as someone pointed out, there are NA, CA, SA, OA, etc etc, so what's the "problem", really?
Hey Aquaman..my 1st thought was what did you have against DMT etc. (LOL)? than my 2nd thought was "I never abused drugs, but they sure abused the heck out of me!" (more LOL)
The only requirement for AA membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Addicts must abstain from drinking.
Alcohol IS a drug.
In my small town there are no NA meetings. We have a regular at our AA meeting with many years sober who identifies as a "drug addict." He doesn't go on & on about drug use, but then we don't go on and on about our drinking, either. We stay in the solution.
I am an alcoholic/addict and that's how I identify. I may mention drugs in passing, but the fact is that alcohol was ALWAYS there, no matter what else I was doing. I am also clinically depressed, which I may mention occasionally. The point is that these other things only complicate my alcoholism, they don't negate my AA membership.
One could argue that the binge drinker is different from the maintenance drinker, or that the skid row guy is different from the executive or the housewife.
I say that ATTRACTION (rather than promotion) should include our willingness to accept anyone who desires to stop drinking.
I love you all. Glad you're here. Keep coming back.
Kinda funny...there is a monster thread going on now on Friends of Bill on this same subject...people are all kinds of hot and bothered arguing and debating!
So grateful this site does not indulge in hard core debates like that. There may be differences of opinion stated but it is respectful. I like that.
