I never quit drinking? What if I never bother to really try doing the steps or go to meetings with any sort of consistency? Is my "desire to stop drinking" really enough for membership if I don't put any effort into actually doing anything about it? This is a serious question. What if I just like AA people and the whole AA vibe but I just keep coming and going and coming and going....eventually wont you people tell me to stay gone?
Is a person allowed to show up to meetings drunk? What if he/she were caught making their pre-meeting coffee a little Irish, would that be grounds for banishment? How many 24 hour chips do you let a person get before you tell him/her to give it a rest?
It happens all the time; the in and outers and round abouter...eventually they do one of three things...stay in and get seriously sober, stay out and maybe peek from time to time, or eventually die. We've lost a couple peekers in the last 5 or so months. Alcohol does that to a person. Eventually they end up crazy, ugly and dead. Many serious alcoholics think that's worth it. I never liked the crazy part. Ugly gets worse when you're drunk even you don't like the way you look.
I tend to work with those who desire to stay sober and shy away from those who are satisfied being drunk. The reason is obvious for me anyway; the difference between staying sober and flirting with insanity. Get's old.
Hey Tipsy, I thought of you this morning when I read this: A.A. Thought for the Day Let us continue with Steps Four, Five, Six, Seven, and Ten. In taking a personal inventory of ourselves, we have to face facts as they really are. We have to stop running away. We must face reality. We must see ourselves as we really are. We must admit our faults openly and try to correct them. We must try to see where we have been dishonest, impure, selfish, and unloving. We do not do this once and forget it. We do it every day of our lives, as long as we live. We are never done with checking up on ourselves. Am I taking a daily inventory of myself?
Meditation for the Day
In improving our personal lives, we have Unseen help. We were not made so that we could see God. That would be too easy for us and there would be no merit in obeying Him. It takes an act of faith, a venture of belief, to realize the Unseen Power. Yet we have much evidence of God's existence in the strength that many people have received from the act of faith, the venture of belief. We are in a box of space and time and we can see neither our souls nor God. God and the human spirit are both outside the limitations of space and time. Yet our Unseen help is effective here and now. That has been proved in thousands of changed lives.
Prayer for the Day
I pray that I may make the great venture of belief. I pray that my vision may not be blocked by intellectual pride.
I thought of you because it seems like you are hiding from the spiritualism that is a very important part of the program. This 24 hour a day reading has your name on it. Look, of course you are welcome here. Your posts crack me up and you seem like a nice guy. I really do not want to see you dead. Try the "Great venture of belief" Go rent "Oh God" if you are bored. Keep it simple. Just try praying for wisdom. AA is a great place to be as a drunk even if its half hearted. I am afraid that it will only sink in when you've run over a neighbors kid or wrecked a car with your girlfriend in critical condition and you without a scratch. It does happen that way. Just talk to God (HP) like Homer Simpson would. Your HP will answer you.
__________________
"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
sure, there's plenty of value in sharing the experience, strength, and nope. It's an exercise in finding out what works by first finding out what doesn't work.
It sounds like a living hell to me so this only serves to confirm my decision to stay sober & do whatever it takes to stay so too. I feel a compassion & sometimes have to surrender a contempt but I always keep a hope that the person may one day hear the message & recover.. 'Trust in God, Clean House, Help Others'.
The door swings both ways & sobriety has never been a joke to me. The pain of insanity & death I see in others helps me stay grateful that I am truly fortunate & that it could be so different. It's written in our Big Book about the Jaywalker who risks life & limb every time he takes another risk. Alcohol is such an arbitrary foe. Knowing me, I could take another chance & trip off the curb losing my life like that. By sheer accident.
I don't see alcohol as a luxury illness I can just fool around with on the assumption I'll get well soon. My pride wouldn't let me play that game & also I know it would be harder for me if I was learning about the program & drinking at the same time. I'm glad I let the power of the program hit me in the heart full force & determined to do whatever it took. I wanted this so I have it. By the good grace of God but of course with my effort. God helping those who help themselves.
I am reacting to your post with some undercurrent of anger, James, because I can't afford to be anyway flippant about my recovery & how much I want sobriety. I am extremely grateful but I have had those moments in the past where I wanted to have my cake & eat it i.e. 'Can't I just take a few drinks with impunity & have the best of both worlds' e.g. The letting go & seeming though shortlived sense of ease & comfort a few drinks would bring whilst keeping the peace of mind a Higher Power brings to my life?
No, I cannot have both. I do not want both. I do not slap the faces of those around me who want my health & happiness so deeply & rejoice when they see me comfortable, joyful, happy & loving. I have a deep loyalty with my brothers & sisters but this is not to say that at some point in the future my hurt, fear, resentment, anger or arrogance might not tip me over the edge & I end up having an almighty slip where I'm back at the feet of my fellows begging for love, mercy, understanding & compassion with my pride so crushed I can hardly breath for the guilt, shame & remorse I may feel.
We love you, James & we hope you get all the benefits of this program we hope you won't miss. Ultimately it is between you & your Higher Power, the God of your own understanding whether you do.
Got me on a rant here, James! I can share also for myself. I know you like to joke & have fun but it would wear thin sometimes. Love & Tolerance is our code, eh ;) Keep coming back. Love Danielle x
__________________
Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
For me, there is a wonderful strangeness about the program. There are no stone cold rules. When anyone reaches out, AA is there to offer help. Because even those that practice differently than I help me stay sober. At a minimum I accept love and compassion into my life, and then offer it back to all who are willing to step through the door, no matter what. Everyone in his/her own way.
We focused on tradition nine in a recent meeting. Unorganized structure? Loving anarchy? AA is an amazing organism. I find it fascinating. Many people shared in this particular meeting that the alcoholic rebel inside them became increasingly drawn to work AA fully when they realized that AA would accept them no matter what and that recovery is possible with a foundation that is anti-structure in a traditional sense.
When I work the suggested steps, I gain more in return. If I lapse, it is still OK. I think the boundary line that you are hinting at would be drawn by group conscience necessarily if someone becomes dangerous/harmful to themselves or others in a meeting. From what I understand, it would depend on the particular group at a particular meeting.
-- Edited by angelov8 on Monday 21st of September 2009 10:23:57 PM
-- Edited by angelov8 on Monday 21st of September 2009 10:24:16 PM
Sounds like you are asking for validation of your compulsion to drink. Well if you want to drink, go get on with it, when you want to get and stay sober, keep coming back. the door swings both ways. I won't be holding your hand when you drink and I cannot stand in your way when you want to go.
If you are an alcoholic of my type, then your drinking will lead to a combination of 3 'ins'
Insanity In Prison In the grave. you choose.
However, if any real alcoholic can turn around and drink like a gentleman, our hats are off to him.
The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. Not a genuine desire and not a desire to stop forever - that comes later maybe - so I suppose that you will be welcome in the fellowship every time you express a desire to stop drinking.
Tell me you want to stop drinking and I'll believe you and be willing to try to help you. tell me you're going for a drink, I cannot afford to hold your hand.
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
Hey Tipsy, I thought of you this morning when I read this: A.A. Thought for the Day Let us continue with Steps Four, Five, Six, Seven, and Ten. In taking a personal inventory of ourselves, we have to face facts as they really are. We have to stop running away. We must face reality. We must see ourselves as we really are. We must admit our faults openly and try to correct them. We must try to see where we have been dishonest, impure, selfish, and unloving. We do not do this once and forget it. We do it every day of our lives, as long as we live. We are never done with checking up on ourselves. Am I taking a daily inventory of myself?
Meditation for the Day
In improving our personal lives, we have Unseen help. We were not made so that we could see God. That would be too easy for us and there would be no merit in obeying Him. It takes an act of faith, a venture of belief, to realize the Unseen Power. Yet we have much evidence of God's existence in the strength that many people have received from the act of faith, the venture of belief. We are in a box of space and time and we can see neither our souls nor God. God and the human spirit are both outside the limitations of space and time. Yet our Unseen help is effective here and now. That has been proved in thousands of changed lives.
Prayer for the Day
I pray that I may make the great venture of belief. I pray that my vision may not be blocked by intellectual pride.
I thought of you because it seems like you are hiding from the spiritualism that is a very important part of the program. This 24 hour a day reading has your name on it. Look, of course you are welcome here. Your posts crack me up and you seem like a nice guy. I really do not want to see you dead. Try the "Great venture of belief" Go rent "Oh God" if you are bored. Keep it simple. Just try praying for wisdom. AA is a great place to be as a drunk even if its half hearted. I am afraid that it will only sink in when you've run over a neighbors kid or wrecked a car with your girlfriend in critical condition and you without a scratch. It does happen that way. Just talk to God (HP) like Homer Simpson would. Your HP will answer you.
This is totally off topic but every single time I read one of your posts I mistakenly read your name as turninggay
This is totally off topic but every single time I read one of your posts I mistakenly read your name as turninggay
Not that theres anything wrong with that......................Anyhoo Tipsy, what do you think of the replies you have gotten? I can't tell if you really want to stop drinking or if you have found us as a bunch of saps to crank on. Either way its kind of funny, but if you are just flaming us, you are only wasting your own time. I like to read your posts because I have a twisted sense of humor, and I will continue to enjoy them, but I have also seen a lot in my life so when I sense that someone might not be in earnest, its hard to play into the scenario. Hey Pinkchip, I think Tipsy is making fun of Gays. Go get him. Awsome video SPD!
Tom
-- Edited by turninggrey on Tuesday 22nd of September 2009 09:00:52 PM
-- Edited by turninggrey on Tuesday 22nd of September 2009 09:03:23 PM
-- Edited by turninggrey on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 03:38:48 PM
__________________
"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
I think bouncing in and out for even longer than I would be incredibly miserable, as I was miserable doing it myself. The longer you "bounce around" with AA, the closer you come to dying, the closer you come to maybe going to prison for the rest of your life, over something you won't even remember happening. The latter makse me shudder. We will keep praying for you no matter what you choose to do from day to day.
__________________
~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Grey, Thank you for your message. This is more along the lines of what I originally typed, then erased. Still too much of a sap and insecure to get wacky, so stayed with the one I posted.
Come on Tipsy, golly gee please respond to the request for feedback, should I dare ya?
Allot of good things have been said here, and I really don't have much to add. I will however ask why you would want to be around a bunch of recovering alcoholics if you really want to go back to drinking. Seems to me the last people I would want to be around are people like me~it ruins my high. Is sobriety something you really want, or just a "dry spell" from time to time? A very dear friend in the program with many years sober once said to me "If you can't remember your last bad drunk, it hasn't happened yet". Can you remember yours? When you have the compulsion to drink do you play the tape all the way through to get to the end and the consequences? For me, drinking will lead to death, and being sober now I really really have no desire to die that way. I think you have to ask yourself how much your willing to lose, and be honest with yourself. It still baffles how this disease works, but I know it's stronger than me, so I fight back with an HP that's stronger than him, and it works. Which side of the war are you on? Brian
-- Edited by Reffner on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 05:31:19 AM
I appreciate your responses and I don't think any of you are saps. In fact I think you folks, and most people I've met in AA, are some of the most decent and giving human beings on the planet. The truth is that sometimes I don't feel worthy of the kindnesses and genuine concern that's offered to me. Maybe that's why I keep expecting to wear out my welcome...everyone has their breaking point when their patience runs out and I'm sure I've tested the patience of anyone who has ever tried to help me.
I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again, I can't live life of rigorous honesty, I can't surrender, I can't face up to my past and the wrongs I've done...I'm not good enough for this program. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just facing reality.
I appreciate your responses and I don't think any of you are saps. In fact I think you folks, and most people I've met in AA, are some of the most decent and giving human beings on the planet. The truth is that sometimes I don't feel worthy of the kindnesses and genuine concern that's offered to me. Maybe that's why I keep expecting to wear out my welcome...everyone has their breaking point when their patience runs out and I'm sure I've tested the patience of anyone who has ever tried to help me.
I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again, I can't live life of rigorous honesty, I can't surrender, I can't face up to my past and the wrongs I've done...I'm not good enough for this program. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just facing reality.
OK that's how it is today. It doesn't have to be like that tomorrow. Keep coming back!
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
I appreciate your responses and I don't think any of you are saps. In fact I think you folks, and most people I've met in AA, are some of the most decent and giving human beings on the planet. The truth is that sometimes I don't feel worthy of the kindnesses and genuine concern that's offered to me. Maybe that's why I keep expecting to wear out my welcome...everyone has their breaking point when their patience runs out and I'm sure I've tested the patience of anyone who has ever tried to help me.
I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again, I can't live life of rigorous honesty, I can't surrender, I can't face up to my past and the wrongs I've done...I'm not good enough for this program. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just facing reality.
OK that's how it is today. It doesn't have to be like that tomorrow. Keep coming back!
That's right, our perspective and what we will or won't do will change when our circumstances change. When the pain of maintaining the status quo overrides the fear of change, you will be ready to change. If you can maintain your, apparently, acceptable amount of tolerance to the pain produced by your current circumstances indefinitely, then you may never need this program. What you are failing to comprehend is that the "promises" from working this program will materialize for you and that the results would be better than you ever dreamed. There are many things, goals, activities, destinations, relationships, accomplishments, ect... that are out of reach for you because drinking is holding you back. If you made a list of those things, and made a goal of achieving them, then the only logical thing to do next would be to quit drinking so that you could participate in the rest of your life.
I love referring to what I call the four (I add fifth) impediments to sobriety.
Youth, Health, Weath, Brains and Enablers. When an alcoholic has a sufficient supply of a couple of these, they fuel rationalization for denial. So maybe the oldtimers were smarter then I had previously thought when they would suggest that individuals who were having problems with the first step (and working the program) go back out and drink for awhile till they acquired the gifts of willingness and desperation .
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 11:16:59 AM
Thought I would chime in now, now that we are getting to the heart of the matter.
And I quote you,
"I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again, I can't live life of rigorous honesty, I can't surrender, I can't face up to my past and the wrongs I've done...I'm not good enough for this program. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just facing reality."
-----------------------------------------------
The way I read that sentence, is that is the rigorous honesty we are all talking about, and in line with what Turningrey Posted above, just want to share my own experience on the above.
Your words were identical to my own words, many years ago, so very convinced that I was simply NOT worthy. Same identical reasons you mentioned.
And in my very first attempt to try and find a God of my understanding, those were the words I used, in silence, when pleading and begging for help with this disease that was surely going to get me in my grave or worse, just wanting that.
"God, I am not Worthy", and the MIRACLE that followed was that my own self willed compulsion to self destruct with Alcohol was removed.
Just as that famous line from that inspiring song, Amazing Grace, "that saved a wretch like me".
Tipsy, please try, if you can find a way, to stay with what is going on inside you, just like you finally came clean with us, the truth as you FEEL it, and not continue to cover up with Masks of Humor, good humor, yes for sure, but we are not really laughing, well I am speaking for just me, I am not laughing anymore. I see that as walking into a Cancer clinic where people are doing their very best, to do whatever it takes to go on with their lives and LIVE, and someone visiting, that has the same disease, that finds it appropriate to poke fun at some, and snarl at others.
I care, and care deeply about you, and just wanted to say, going back to what I quoted you on, then if you are not worthy my friend, then that makes all of us not worthy too. And the last part of that sentence is simply not true. We are living Sober Happy Lives, relieved of the horrible Bondage of Self, and now just a part of a lovely landscape, that we call in this 24 hour a Day Program ,a Devine Intervention. Alcoholics Anonymous has this AWESOME Repair Kit, for every word you wrote,
We find a Sponsor that will show you the kit, as it holds the 12 Steps of Recovery in it, and will ask you to use this kit, with him right there beside you, helping you in EVERYWAY, when you get stuck. We make amends to those we have harmed, and admit our faults to God and to another human being, and we are On the way to a Sober Life.
With love and affection, it took some courage to say what you said, and I applaud you.
Toni
-- Edited by Just Toni on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 12:47:08 PM
tipsy - you are not worthy? Behave, we are all worthy.
It works if you work, so work it you're worth it!
I used to think I was unworthy of forgiveness, of a decent life, of love, I used to think I couldn't face my past and make amends - I was looking at steps 4 and 5 and 8 and 9 before I'd done 1 and 2 and 3.
The steps are in an order for a reason. As we work through the steps we get stronger and more able to do the next step.
The first one - we admitted we were powerless over alcohol and our lives were unmanageable - got to get this first as this is the bedrock that everything else is built on. Identify the problem. Step 2 came to believe that a power greater than ourselves........... if you don't acknowledge the problem in step 1 how can you be ready to believe that I can't sort this by myself, but there must be something that has got me this far which leads to step 3, asking that higher power for help.
In summary, I can't do this by myself, He can help me, let Him help me.
Get that and the rest will follow.
Scared of GOD? I was until I realised that the higher power was a power greater than me that had got me this far. That power that stopped me from launching myself off the top of a 200 foot building, that stopped me from jumping off the tree with the rope ready round my neck, that stopped me from slamming into the back end of a truck, that led me to getting arrested, being abandoned, seeing the doctor who recommended a self help group (which he didn't name) which led me to call that helpline 5 times, which put two great responders on the line to help, which gave me the courage to go to my first meeting, which put a room full of people in there to help, which kept me coming back through the white knuckle period until I got my sponsor and got on with the steps.
My higher power has gone through changes. It was the Group Of Drunks in the meetings, it was Good Order and Discipline, it was innumerable religious deities, it was even the late Johnny Cash. I dunno what it is now, but I personalise it so I can relate to it. But it is there.
Your higher power is there for you, it's just you self will that prevents you from accepting it.
anyway, I'm off to a meeting now.
-- Edited by bikerbill on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 01:04:23 PM
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
"I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again, I can't live life of rigorous honesty, I can't surrender, I can't face up to my past and the wrongs I've done...I'm not good enough for this program. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just facing reality."
Tip...I had a very fine sponsor during the "I can't do this" period of whine time for me. He gave me another perspective which was more honest than what I was trying to come up with..."I won't do this" was what he asked me to consider doing as I stood as a member in the fellowship of thousands who were doing it. When I meditated on the "I won't" versus the "I can't" I found the difference to be putting in the effort...not blaming the program for being "too hard" or "Impossible" and putting the responsibility wholely on my shoulders. "I didn't know how to work the program" was true and "I can't" only a usual excuse to try and fail. Years later that isn't even a consideration anymore.
Kindly let me say your perceptions and expectations are screwed up just like any new member's is. The program doesn't come on wishes...it comes on work. You are not worthy or unworthy because you sense it. You have proof that you are because of what others do to support regardless of how you feel about it. Our breaking point would be "going back out" or letting anything you do or say, "take us back out." That is not a condition when I support someone else. I go back out for no one and no reason...not even God. Your getting clean and sober is only for you. Those here who have stepped up to support you have already achieved their own sobriety and know by life style and culture how to keep it. Those I know who have achieved being clean and sober are happy, joyous and free and have no other needs. They have what it is that you want because they have done what it is that you haven't and they all found out that they "could do this" in the face of an opposite belief and practice.
Sobriety is voluntary and suggested. In the face of a greater awareness it becomes a matter of choice...get free, stay free or remain in the cage. I just hate that picture don't you?
See Tipsy! This is why you need to stay exposed to this stuff. Eventually it wears on you and something clicks! Excellent responces above! (Toni, I liked yours best ) Very few people succeed at anything on the first go around. It takes effort. Remember when Luke Skywalker had trouble with the force? He stuck to it and look where it got him. That is why that story was a hit. Someone stuck with something even though it was tough. How about Indiana Jones walking across the bridge of faith? It happened because he TRIED it. I know I am joking a little about this subject, but why don't you try locking yourself in a room and saying to thin air: "Uh..HP....God.... To whom it may concern that oversees time and space...I am locking myself in this room because I am too proud to let anyone know I am trying to contact you. I.....Uh.....you see...the folks on a website I go to,( its an AA website), feel that knowing you is a key to me changing and becoming sober. Sooo, I was wondering if you could help me with that? I also have a lottery ticket that............" It will get easier with time. Just try it for awhile and see if you do not get an answer. How will you know if it works or not if you don't try it. You will define your own HP. It just so happens that mine falls in with my religion. That does not have to be the case with you. OK, I double dog dare you to do it. Who knows, you may not get sober, but you may win the lottery! Tom
-- Edited by turninggrey on Wednesday 23rd of September 2009 03:40:18 PM
__________________
"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Why are you worried about admitting your wrongs, when you are nowhere near that step?? That is why they are in the order they are in. What seems scarey now will not be so daunting, once you have truly worked some steps. Do NOT think about any other step but Step One. And when you have fully conceded to your innermost self that you are alcoholic, THEN go on to the next step. Quit thinking about things that are not to be dealt with right now. Think only in TODAY, not tomorrow and it's tasks or difficulties. Most of our "difficulties" we make up in our own heads anyway. "Say a thing as though it were and it shall be". Ever heard of that?
All you have to do is realize that you are just afraid, Tipsy. And in not having any faith in yourself, and trying to piss AA's off, you are merely trying to sabotage your recovery so you can prove yourself RIGHT. Would you rather be RIGHT and MISERABLE, or SOBER and HAPPY??
Keep coming back, keep going to meetings, no matter what. If your ass falls off, pick it up and take it to a meeting. You WILL get this if you just keep coming back. Some are sicker than others, some of us are a hard walnut to crack. Some of us come in so stubborn and belligerant, it is doubtful that anyone could help us. But I have seen this program "cure" us of all kinds of things like continual stubbornes, and inability to surrender. So keep coming back. We can't have everything right now. But we can work on just this 24 hours. And in time, through being honest and sharing and being willing, we DO get better.
__________________
~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
"The truth is that sometimes I don't feel worthy of the kindnesses and genuine concern that's offered to me. Maybe that's why I keep expecting to wear out my welcome...everyone has their breaking point when their patience runs out and I'm sure I've tested the patience of anyone who has ever tried to help me.
I've mentioned it before but I'll say it again, I can't live life of rigorous honesty, I can't surrender, I can't face up to my past and the wrongs I've done...I'm not good enough for this program. I'm not feeling sorry for myself, I'm just facing reality."
Thank you for sharing this rigorous honesty, James. I can identify with your feelings of unworthiness & inadequacy. I was frightened to own & surrender to a God that loves me more than I can imagine but which I gained a taste of through the love, friendship & understanding I found in fellowship.
I always wanted to push boundaries to test love & try to find out if I really was worth keeping & trying for.
Eventually, you will give up & simply realise that yes you are. We all are but it takes time to learn how to love ourselves & let go of a past of beating ourselves up in front of or behind a mask. We learn that it just doesn't work any more & there is an easier, softer way in allowing ourselves to be loved & even in being there for others.
I struggled with my gratitude for what this program could & would give me because I felt I wasn't worth it too. Eventually I realised that my gratitude helps & uplifts others & I learned I am worth alot. It came through the steps.
It wasn't that I was a complete cretin to begin with though I could have ended up that way if I'd carried on but I did reach a point where I began turning everything over to my Higher Power, good & bad.
Giving all credit to that helped with my ego. Our ego hurts us more than it does us any good despite its best efforts but this comes with time to realise too. My ego had to be smashed. It is always my pride that can hurt me & feelings of low self-worth can be pride in reverse. Another way to close ourselves off from the sunlight of the spirit that gives its unconditional love.
God's love (of so many understandings) is the ultimate principle before all personalities & given the chance, we surrender, we say we're sorry & that our sadness & low self-worth is, itself, unmanageability. We cry out, give up & say yes, please help me, I want something new, I want this over.
I don't know where your desire not to drink comes from but it is best to begin with Step One... James, would you have a think & share with us in a new post... Why do you want to stop drinking? Share with us your heart's honest desire & where it has come from...
I look forward to hearing your innermost considerations from where it hurts the most. What does alcoholism mean for you, what are your reservations & what do you dream for the future?
Share in all earnestness & we can share with you too. You're not alone no matter how you may feel about you. God's Love, Danielle x
__________________
Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
I went to AA meetings drunk AND abusive and disruptive, but they kept saying 'Keep Coming Back' So I did, and anyone is welcome at meetings who has the desire to drink, even if they drink again.
AA is for drunks!!! Lets face it, if drunks weren't allowed in AA, it just wouldn't exist.
__________________
Serenity is Wanting what you have, not having what you want
Always remember non-alcoholic beers are for NON-ALCOHOLICS
.