If there are problems with my SILs lack of care of the kids (bad enough to warrant calling CPS) would it be appropriate to talk to her sponsor about things?
My SIL puts a shield around herself making it virtually impossible to talk to her.We are thinking of having a kind of intervention on the subject but it may be difficult to even get her to sit down with us in a room.My brother also needs to be a part of the conversation because he is only slightly better than my SIL.But he contributes to wall my SIL puts around herself by insisting on being the go-between.
So should we try to arrange a sit down with all of us? (My mom, myself, my bro & SIL.)Should we include a psychiatrist?Or a counselor?Or her sponsor?Should we mention CPS? As in "What would CPS do if they saw this?"If we decide we are willing to call CPS if things dont improve, should we tell them that as well?
HELP!!!
-- Edited by smartkat on Thursday 17th of September 2009 03:20:51 PM
I would not go to her sponsor. That is sort of like breaking a sacred bond even though people do go to my sponsor and talk about me...it's not my family, boss...etc. I would consider that overstepping the bounds. From what your SIL sounds like, you will be cut off completely if you do this. It sounds like she already feels judged by you and this is part of why she won't listen to you. Anything you tell her has to come from complete love...even if it's only for your neices/nephews. If you have to tailor the message in the form of "You are such a caring person and I know you want the best for the kids...." whatever works. The conversation needs to probably take place between your husband and her because she can write you off all too easy as "not family." Similarly, she can filter off anything from her husband by just saying "that's his problem and not mine." I would suggest your husband "the actual brother" be the one to talk to her. If there are serious issues of abuse or neglect going on...You might have to call CPS, but you have to think hard about that one. Make sure the call isn't because she isn't raising the kids the way you would think is right and that it actually is abuse/neglect. This means...leaving children under 10 alone with nobody over 10 to watch them for hours at a time. Not providing adequate food, shelter, clothing, or schooling. Or...abuse in the form of leaving marks or bruises on the children. Emotional abuse will likely not be considered founded sadly, because it's hard to prove. If you call CPS and the complaint is considered or investigated as "unfounded" which is the word they use when they don't have enough to go on...that word "unfounded" is going to stick with your SIL and she likely continue in the same manner or worse...plus sever ties with you. This is all I can say based on experience as a therapist, having to call CPS several times, and also as an alcoholic. Also, like many on this board might tell you, you might find better advice/suggestions on the Alanon board here.
Mark
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Definitley do what you need to do for the sake of the children, but leave the sponsor out. In my opinion, a sponsor is not a 'go-to' person for anyone but the sponsee. Children always come first though, but I'm sure there are many ways of helping without bring the sponsor in without your SIL permission. Plus, if your SIL has built trust into her sposor at this point, she may feel betrayed and become disconnected from her also. And that's just never a good thing. I hope things work out. When children are involved, it can be a very scary thing. I'll pray for your family.
-- Edited by cramcj01 on Friday 18th of September 2009 08:11:36 AM
My "real" brother is her husband and he is a part of the problem. He isn't as bad as her but when you are flunking with 30% right, it doesn't mean much to say "well she is flunking with 20%!
They have a special needs child who isn't yet potty trained. She was partially potty trained for a while but regressed. But my brother vowed he woudl never put her back in a diaper. So when she has accidents, she smears it everywhere. The mother never leaves her room so she is usually unaware this even occurred. My brother cleans the child up but doesn't clean the smeared walls and handprints.
When my brother is at work in the evening, she doesn't even feed the kids. So my brother buys TV dinners so the kids can fix food for themselves. One of the "normal" girls fixes a TV dinner for the special needs child.
We are considering including her mother, my brother's MIL, in the conversation. She lives hours away but I beleive my SIL would listen to her more than to us.
I have a little different "take" on this. I was in a relapse and on the verge of killing myself through the things I was doing. I was putting myself in grave danger. My husband and alanon aunt called my sponsor first thing, to let her know what was going on with me. When my butt was dragged back home, she was there for ALL of us, and I welcomed the unity of people around me offering their help and undivided attention.
The sacredness, I feel, is between me and my sponsor, not between my family and my sponsor. She is htere to keep MY feelings and secrets in confidence. She is there to help me, and she needs to know the TRUTH if I am to get better.
Just my opinion, could be quite wrong, but it saved my butt, that my family got to know my sponsor in a very intimate way through the suffering I caused in a relapse. Where there are kids involved, I would break any rules I would have to in order to protect those children. We have to toss aside the idea of "privileged information" where the safety of children is involved, this goes for even lawyers and counselors and physicians!
If I were you, I would say to pray about it.
Take care and I hope all goes well.
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In general, I think the AlAnon board is better suited for this situation. But for the specific issue of whether to try and bring the sponsor in on the discussion, I thought you guys were the best to ask.
If they have a special needs child, they probably qualify for a caseworker and family counselor of some sort through medicaid waiver. This person would come into the home and do counseling, primarily with the special needs child, but also the family to make sure they are all functioning adaptively. Having a counselor coming into their house regularly would force them to clean up their act somewhat and also get the special needs child and parents some training and help with regards to parenting. Suggesting something like this might go over better because it could be phrased in term of your neice just needing some extra help and therapy to not fall further behind developmentally. It does sound like there might be enough for CPS to warrant neglect due to the sanitary conditions and diet issues. That is something you will have to wrestle with. Either way, they really sound like they need help in the form of a family counselor/case manager/advocate for the child - which they are entitled to due to the diagnosis of the child. That person would then be legally obligated as a mandatory reporter if they saw neglect going on. Just a thought.
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OK, have to say it....yesterday when you described the special needs child getting soiled and whipping it on the walls, and being left unattended, the feces remaining on the wall, and you asking about an intervention of sorts for the mother, that for any reason at all is unable to care for this child, my head sort of caught on fire.
Clearly, the courts in all states, look at any given situation, whether it be a plain ole divorce, or any thing to do with spousal abuse, whatever. The courts weight all that is involved, but what is written and comes out clear as Day, is the only thing that is focused on is this one thing:
WHAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE CHILDREN, any decisions are based on that one fact, and work with families yes, on making that happen.
You mentioned you sister in law will not come out of her room, for what reason, is she in a drunken black out, or does she have some mental problems, like aggrevated Post Partum Depression, or both. These are truly very serious issues, and leaving her in that room without getting Professional Help, does not sound good.
I just hope as her sister in Law that you will because of the present circumstances take some action, any action to help get this situation changed for the better.
I put this in a Post yesterday, or close to it, and then deleted the whole thing as I felt it was not AA related, but since there are others here too, making suggestions, I thought i would offer my suggestions too.
Let us know how things are going, will you?
You take care of you first, too, remember that.
Pray that I have not offended you in anything I made a suggestion on, it was just the way I interrupted what was written.
Take care, Toni
-- Edited by Just Toni on Sunday 20th of September 2009 10:14:47 AM
Pink Chip - the key words are "come into the home." They would not allow that! There are all sorts of free services they do not get because they will not allow anyone but the closest of close family members in the house.
Toni - The mother is apparently not drinking (although she hid it for so long I would be foolish to say that with certainty). It is mostly a psycological issue. She has always been rather aloof, but with a family tragedy a few years ago, her drinking and distancing herself from us had increased. I beleive she is taking meds for anxiety disorder. She has gone to several councelors but always seems to give up on them. She seems to think they don't know what they are talking about. She has the typical "give me a pill to fix the problem" mentality.
What she does in her bedroom? Facebook, phone, naps, or TV shows she recorded in the day.
But Friday I saw an improvement. When the special needs child gets off the bus, she goes to my moms house. I was there an did some educational activities with her then took her home. I was SHOCKED to NOT find the mother in her bedroom! She was in the kitchen fixing herself a pizza (herself, NOT to share with the kids) And when her pizza was out of the oven, she did NOT retreat back into her bedroom with the pizza! She sat on the couch and chatted with me a bit, then listened to her other daughter sing a song from choir! She actually interacted with us!
And when I told the special needs child to go to the bathroom, my SIL actually supervized the child!
This is quite an old topic which I have only just seen and I would talk to her sponsor, because, if the sponsor is being used as a sponsor, i.e. the sponsee is open and honest with her, the sponsor would most ikely have told her that if she wasn't able to care for her kids, then she would talk to her family, which in time would probably lead to the kids being put into a place of safety.
I very much doubt that she is open and honest with her sponsor, certainly in many experiences during my recovery, my own and many others, I would let the sponsor know, and I bet she will be totally gobsmacked to hear of it. Sponsors can only work when the sponsees are honest with them.
I once called a girl in an area miles away from me, a girl I met at a convention and stayed in touch with, but on the day I called her, she was pissed, and she had 5 kids all under the age of 5 years old, and I could hear them all rioting (the older ones) and screaming and crying (the younger ones) Having known a girl who killed herself and her 3 kids in a house fire when she was pissed, I had no hesitation in calling the social services in her area. I did this after calling my own sponsor who said, 'Avril, if you saw in the news tomorrow that a woman and her 5 young kids died in house fire, how would that make you feel?'
After thinking on that for a few minutes, it was a no-brainer. For me, anonymity and confidence ends when lives may be at stake, and I always make this clear to anyone I sponsor or who talks to me about such problems, that way they have a choice whether to talk to me or not, and if they do talk to me and I take such action, it is action which needs to be taken. BUT - if you want to talk to her sponsor cos you think she can help, then I doubt you will get any help other than suggestion to contact the appropriate authority to safeguard the kids, and get your SIL into rehab.
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