After years of dealing with alcoholism I've come here to get support and understanding instead of fighting my demon alone.
Do I drink daily?....no not anymore..used to.....black out and all the rest that we all can so relate to....Go years without it...as I discovered tonight reading this forum....I test drink.....have that binge....blackout blah blah blah....did that last night....mind you..years back it would take a full goon bag to wipe me....now 3 beers sent me tropo....I hate the taste of alcohol....but the demon bites ....you know the rest....
So I ask.......how can I get out of my own head?. Those negative thoughts that despite my life being pretty good....haunt me and I develop a false belief that a "drink" will take the edge off...I can "handle" it....it will make my issues dissolve
My negative thoughts are those issues we all have that we never discuss with others but just tear ourselves up inside...I am adopted therefore I have issues with gaining approval to the point of obsession...I am a perfectionist..... I wont then ever be rejected again....its a life pattern thought.....my common sense tells me I am thinking croc....but this thought haunts.....
I'd been a doormat in my marriage until 9 years ago when after weeks and weeks of that 24/7 wipeout I told my husband what hurts....should of done that years ago....but alas we cant gain life experience in our 20's really....yes our marriage survived....
I have attended AA....but found that group support doesnt work for me personally. Ive exhausted self help methods that work as a band aid only till the demon strikes...recognised and avoid/ changed my triggers.....so my thoughts are....despite the fact at this moment I'd kill for that edge off with a shot of anything high alcohol that I know would end up being 10 shots.....will you perhaps help me with some stratergies of how to break or recognise the cycle/pattern or whatever it is that makes me feel my only choice is grog?
You said "group support" doesn't work for you ... it doesn't work for me either ... but the COMBINATION of group support (hearing others tell their horror stories) and "self support" work GREAT for me.
Self Support = cracking open that Big Book and WORKING THE STEPS. Can you see yourself getting through Steps 1-3? They are CRUCIAL to your recovery.
Four years ago i had 16 months of sobriety, and threw it away to go and do more "research" on how not to live. The main reason i relapsed is that i was a Dry Drunk for 16 months. I stopped drinking, but i did no work on changing my sick behaviors.
That Spiritual Experience that you MUST have to truly recover is what you are looking for.
FOR ME, it meant that "I" was the one who had to move ... who had to perform miracles. I had to knock on doors (of my pastor, of my church, of my adoration chapel, of my counselor, of my sponsor) ... i can't sit and wait for my Higher Power to knock on my door or give me a burning bush to stand in awe of. It doesn't work that way.
Please know you're in my prayers, and please know that this is all MY opinion on things, OK?
In support, joel
-- Edited by joelo on Thursday 3rd of September 2009 10:50:44 AM
Welcome. I thought and felt like you did on this journey of getting sober. I felt as though I did not belong. The people in AA did not understand what I was going through(so I thought). I kept coming back to the meetings and listening to people in the fellowship share their experience, strength and hope. I started relating to some of those experiences that were shared. I found out that I did belong and I was not that much different from them. I got a sponsor. My sponsor thought for me until I could think for myself. Meaning, I did not have to try and figure all of this out by myself. I followed her directions(suggestions). That was a big relief. She walked me through the 12 steps and one day at a time, my life begin to change. Things became quiet. My mind was not bouncing off the wall like it use to. My emotions were in their proper place. Those secrets, were not secrets anymore(I was going to take this one to my grave). I did not have to tell everybody about them but I had to tell somebody in order to get free and I did. Someone who understood. I was able to open up to my sponsor and she help guide me along the way. Its a process for me still today. I have to continue to work the 12 steps to keep a sane mind and body. Thanks so much for sharing your story. Keep coming back. You are not alone.
Joel.....Thank you...your my life line tonight....and I value your opinion..
Group support I found depressing....I also found that some people were there cause they had to be to avoid a jail term...therefore not genuine.....I have looked at my behaviors but its my head that haunts...I've never done the steps as such..as when I attended AA, others put me off going for the above reasons.....and after reading the forum tonight...this is what Ive missed......and maybe....my answers lie there. I am a awesome support for others....due to training and occupations.......I just seem to not be able to get through my own sh*t!
I hear you saying you cannot do this alone, but you can't deal with "group help". Those are your only 2 choices!! And the first one clearly is not working. And because you went to perhaps a meeting or 2, or maybe even a handful of meetings, does not mean it will not work for you. You have to go with an open mind. Just go and listen. Look for ways which you DO identify and relate to the others there, not for ways you are somehow different from them or "unique". None of us, you will find, is unique in what we fight.
This here is "group help" as well, just not face to face. The vast majority of us here could not survive alone on internet support. We MUST get out to meetings with face to face people. We do so, and we bring our experience, strength and hope back here to share, and to encourage new people to do the same, "get out there and give the program a try, face to face". That is the overall theme here. The real miracle of healing happens face to face, and in no other way does that happen.
We are all here for you, to identify with what you are going through. But we humans were not meant to be solitary creatures. We aren't designed that way. When you start to let people face to face see who you think you are, and they surprise you by showing you that you are NOT "bad", or "defective" or "pitiful", but just a little sick, you will feel better about YOURSELF, and it will open the door to healing.
Again, welcome, and consider what we are suggesting here. Nothing else in all the world has worked for so many millions of alcoholics worldwide, who are now sober and lead full lives and have peace of mind.
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
Joelo, Carlasober and Joni hit it right on the head. Things aren't working right now, so there has to be change. Nothing changes if nothing changes. This comes at a good time for me to read. My head has been shut off for the past couple of days and it feels great. It's nothing I could've done under my old devices; I've tried that and failed. When I had enough, I got a sponsor I obeserved for my 3 years of R&D and asked him to sponsor me. I let him guide me through the first 6 months. I was on auto pilot. Now, I work the program and enjoy working it. I didn't enjoy working it in the beginning. But, once I started to see results, I chased it just like I did the drink. What I do: Have a higher power, go to meetings, work the steps, talk to my sponsor and friends in the fellowship and do service work.
Hello FHB and welcome. lots of good advise in the thread. I just want to focus on your obsession to "take the edge off". Yes Alcohol does relieve stress very well, but in the process it relieves us of our body's natural ability to relieve stress, thus causing a dependency. It also lowers our tolerance to stress furthering our dependence. So we must learn that our perception of stress is blown up and our ability to manage stress needs help. A lot of us are addicted to drama. And it really is all in our head. We can decide to be happy and stress free. It's that simple. What's lacking in most of us is spirituality (not religion). Spirituality is what we make of it. It can be as simple as a walk in the woods or down by the river. Or spending time with your pet. Whatever it is it has to be something that makes you be present in the moment and get you out of your head about the past and future. There is no happiness there, it only lives in the present.
Dean
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 3rd of September 2009 08:28:35 PM
Welcome to MIP, FHB. It is members like us who you will find in meetings. If you keep coming back & trying as many as you can you will begin to identify & see past the negative filters you may have right now. It is meetings, literature, sponsorship & sheer determination to stay sober & be free from my old head that have made a difference in my life. I am grateful for my sobriety & it wasn't easy to achieve in the beginning but if you do as is suggested it comes along with so many rewards recovery brings. I wish you the best & I hope you get this. So many don't & it is such a shameful waste of life. Good luck & God's blessings. Keep coming back & sharing where you're at just for today :) Danielle x
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Progress not perfection.. & Practice makes Progress!
They say we alcholics have a "physical allergy" coupled with a "mental obsession", you explained them both very well. With alchohol removed we must treat the obsesson.
Our book explains alcoholism as "cunning, baffling and powerful, without help it is too much for us". We where moraly sick and spirtitualy bankrupt, our book and program of action helps us with this.
Lack of power was our dilemma our book and steps will you find a power greater than yourself and a design for living.
I am really grateful the obsession was lifted years ago, and is not a factor as long as I maintain my spirtual condition.
I didn't like groups or meetings at first either, I just listened and kept going until one day someone walked in hurting like I had been months earlier, I reached out my hand to them and then realized it wasn't about me anymore.
keep coming back!
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Support only works in AA if you have the willingness to change. Otherwise we would tend to turn support into enabling and the people that do that in AA are often the ones that do relapse because they stay in their own crap forever. You have some insight into what they would call character defects in AA as you know. Do you want to cling to those forever? Clinging to having to be perfect and fear of rejection will constantly trigger the desire to drink. How well do those defects serve you? It was said in a meeting I went to tonight that we are not bad people or even sick people so much as we are afraid people that need daily reminders to live in the solution rather than to let our fears overwhelm us back into maladaptive coping patterns. A person with 25 years of sobriety said this (followed up by that it wasn't some great wisdom he had, but just an accumulation of what he'd heard other people say in meetings over the years). So, the solution would be to replace those fears with faith in something so that you dont obsess and live with that urge to check out due to the feelings and thoughts that seem unbearable. The only answer is to change. That is why the symbol of AA is the delta symbol (triangle) of change. AA is not support to remain the same way as you were, it is support to face the fear of change and to actually walk through it. You are blessed that your fears don't run so deep that you obsess and live in fear that you have to drink your way through daily. I had reached that point of being so afraid of life and changing that I drank every day to numb it. Either way, dealing with those fears is the answer to getting out of your head. Think differently. You don't have to always be perfect because you were adopted. Also, the worst rejection you can face in the world is rejecting yourself for the faults you seem to recognize you have. It's great to realize where your fears come from, but it's insanity to hold onto them when you know they make you sick.
Just a note...this is coming from a person who is still working on many fears and learning how to live sober. Nonetheless, the desire and willingness to change is a huge part of why I go to meetings and how the obsession to drink has been largely lifted from me today....and the next day...etc. I hope this makes sense without sounding high handed. Welcome and keep coming back to share :)
Mark
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Aloha FHB...then if you're saying (like I did) you can't handle it on your own and you need help the next thing I did was reach out to the group and say "please help me". Sounded like swahili but the whole group understood it. I've never had to go it alone since then and I've never had more experience that worked to choose from than any where else. Instead of doing those hand signals that keep people back...do the opposite one and watch them come rushing to your support. Course you gotta not be afraid of them and of being perfect in front of them. The fellowship only understands progress. It doesn't even attempt perfection.
How things??.....I feel a bit judged...I see presumptions made that are inaccurate....thats ok....I have no issues with this....freedom of speech and support/guidance for me and more importantly us is what counts.
So I'll look outside the box .... re-read....re-digest......and when Ive done that..go back and re-read - re-digest...to I understand and capture the point being made......I don't stress...and I don't class myself as unique to others.....I don't judge others....I faced terminal cancer at age 27....survived it...I dont sweat the small stuff...and life is too short to worry about the "What Ifs"..
I am a behaviour management specialist.....specialising in challenging behaviours and substance abuse .....presently I am employed at a male maximum security prison in Oz..(I am female)....managing protected custody prisoners...primarily corrupt cops/prison officers and serious child sex offenders.....so the AA horror stories.....nah...I see and read worse at work each day.....nothing phases me.....hence my disenchantment with attending AA......it maybe different in USA however in Oz...it is at times mandatory for offenders to attend AA as part of the rehab or alternative to prison.....I observe them re-offending finally becoming incarcerated....during vamps I bust them for their "rocket fuel" creations....(prison home brews - made from anything and everthing.....yoghurt is a big thing at the moment for rocket fuel fermentation as is alcohol hand gels which is 66% ethanol)...I observe some of these offenders arriving and leaving AA and going around the corner and sucking on a long neck......and these are part of the fellowship we speak of..that are there for me???.....Nah....not likely....
My biological father who i met last year.....is also a alcoholic...as was my biological mother.....shes dead now...makes you question the probability to inherit addictions and behaviours that you never knew or grew up with.....Today he is terminal with lung and liver cancer...but still drinks and still smokes.....its his choice......he lays his guilt on me.....I note it.....but let it go....I refuse to take it on board......he is responsible for his actions and outcomes..I do not have accept his conditions....it pisses me off when he rings me at midnight, drunk, crying ...so next time I will stand my ground and speak my mind......this haunts me daily....today I promised myself as part of my recovery....that I will tell him when he rings again pissed and crying that its not on........
So........I come here.......and listen...and just be...... Last night I pulled out the big book......so as I stated last night...its a start.....
Thanks everyone for supporting me. I do value each and everyones comment and thoughts...I just need to get my head around them....
Sometimes we are more the same than we are different. Also a past behavioral health therapist working with all kinds of....and alcoholism and substance addiction, some need specific classification huh? I was 9 years without a drink before getting to an assessment "of my very own" HP led, which resulted in a medical summary, "needs to get into inpatient care immediately or the next time they drink...they die." Survived toxic shock, thought I was immortal and "different" on a conscious level. On a subconscious level there was a thicker album of my life. I am alcoholic. I don't use the "an" on any alcoholic or myself. I have several life threatening diseases that arrived within me at the maternity ward...tuberculosis being one, alcoholism, nicotine addiction (why we don't ism that one too I don't.....care. Last knee jerk on that love affair was just about 24 hours ago and I've not smoked for 7 or so months after a wicked jag." ) Last subconscious ideation about drinking just about a week ago...this one I was asking for it in the large size. I haven't had a alcohol based drink in over 30 years. Last conversation I had about living behaviors, thoughts, feelings and motivations which allow for the disease?....4 hours ago and last meeting? 5 and a half hours ago. There is nothing I know more intimately than my addiction. It's been with me since birth and owned me for almost half my life now. In an unguarded moment it will arrive at my side with a crooked and persistent suggestion that we might renew acquaintenances again. Some in this program seem to have it simpler (?) than I; easier than I? and then I only have to work my own. I was considered a very good therapist and had both an extreemly attentive boss and sponsor. Both of them directed me that "I could be had." They loved me and are right.
For me the definition for being humble is "being teachable".
Being judged...LOL I remember that. Thanks for the review. (((((hugs)))))
Hi FHB! I've read your posts and the posts of others...You are in a good place, everyone here is so helpful. I am new here and I cant or wont judge anyone, cause I hate when It is done to me. My father is an alcoholic, and keeps trying to get himself together, I have try to help him, but it was only to my own downfall. I really dont have any advice, But I am in a 12 step program, not AA. Though I have been to AA recently...And I rather my group program. Keep coming back, cause I do, and even if I dont post anything I read enough to help me through my day!! Take it to your HP as well!! It will help!!! Take Care!!! Sundee
FHB, thank you for sharing more. Of course hearing about your background and where you work hits me personally. I am a therapist and I do work in a prison (a prison for juvenile delinquents). I worked on the substance abuse unit there up until a couple months ago (though the kids on the other units are substance abusers too, they just haven't made it so apparent to their judges yet). What I see daily can make me feel jaded. It has made me feel very jaded in the past. Many people in AA have told me it's not a good place to be working while trying to straigten myself out. 90 percent or more of the kids/inmates DO NOT want to change. This gets back to what I was saying before, they are almost all unwilling. The overwhelming majority of them have conduct disorder (which will become antisocial personality disorder when they are adults like the inmates you deal with). They blame the system, society, and everyone else for their problems and have absolutely no qualms about staying that way. They are massively manipulative...even more than you or I or anyone on this board could fathom. I cannot imagine any of them even coming to a website like this because there would be nothing for them to get out of it (no money, sex, reduction in their sentence). That is why AA doesn't work for them. They pay lip service to get out and a few of them may recognize drugs and alcohol are a big problem for them, but almost none of them are humble enough to ask for help, to accept real help (something not tangible or a reward), and they really just want to go back to doing the same thing and just not get caught again. What's great is that they are not you and they are not me. I have an assload of training in psychology that has amounted to a pile of crap in terms of my own recovery. Sometimes it can be useful in helping others and sometimes I go overboard and take inventories. My whole education in psychology is like a big degree in inventory taking and while I really truly accept everyone in the end...I am fast to try and figure people out and fit them into diagnostic categories that fit my knowledge (even knowing that I fit certain diagnostic categories such as alcoholic, depressed, anxious...etc). Thankfully, I don't do that in AA that much because I wound up there with all my knowledge, education...etc. In other words, my best thinking got me there. I am stupid when it comes to my disease and I am grateful I know that know. I can't think my way around it. I can't suddenly reach this moment where I fully grasp why I drink and the disease is gone. It will always catch up with me if I am not diligent and open to treatment (which for me is AA). You do have the ability and the freedom to take what you want from AA and leave the rest...that is one thing that makes it work. I respect your struggles and also that you are a survivor. You sound like a strong person though it does sound like you put a lot on your own shoulders which you don't have to if you don't want to. I have a history of trying to help and be there for everyone else and that left me empty and not taking care of myself (and ultimately afraid I couldn't take care of myself though I remained confident I could take care of others...insanity). Anyhow, thanks for sharing more. I really appreciate knowing what you do and it helps me realize even more how "not unique" I am. Also not saying you and I are the same...just that I identify with some of what you said and I know first hand of some of the things you are talking about.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Hi FH, seems you may have been speaking to me when you felt "judged" by my mention of feeling "unique". No judgment intended here at all. That phrase I used is a pretty universal phrase in Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. It is used to describe ways in which MOST of us deceived ourselves in the early days, into thinking perhaps we were "different" and could either do this on our own, or that others were "worse off" than we were, so far as how far they had fallen into the alcoholic abyss. When we are turned off by meetings, that is exactly the time we have to ask ourselves a few hard questions. What are we afraid of (IF that is the problem), what are we expecting to get out of AA, and where are those expectations not being met? Who is going to see us there, and so on.
The first and most important thing we must do to get and STAY sober is be willing to ask ourselves some really hard questions, like how much do we want this, and are we willing to go to any length to get it? It is a humbling experience, setting foot in the rooms of AA. For some, it is the first real slap of reality that yes indeed, we have hit bottom. (Whatever that bottom may be... for some, prison, and for others among us, just an emotional bottom).
I have been in the medical field for years, and have for a portion of that time worked in a long-term treatment facility as the residential supervisor to one of the women's units. What a humbling experience to have gone back to the drink, after helping SOOO many other women to get sober and get real. Of those in my local AA "circuit", there are a general practitioner, a plastic surgeon, several attorneys, a cop, a ton of nurses, and even MORE therapists/counselors. And many would agree that it was the guidance of a few blue-collar good-ole-boys, with no "education" like you and I have, that made the most sense and had the best ideas about how to get and stay sober. In this program of AA, it is often the least "formally educated" among us who get this program and stay sober long term, why? Because they are not trying to "analyze the program" before simply following instructions. That is why it was so hard for me, for so long, to really just surrender and subsequently get well. (Making them the SMARTEST among us intellectual fools, at least where our own alcoholism is concerned.) Some part of me still wanted to conquer this on my own willpower and self-knowledge and intellect. I found clever ways of getting aorund following simple instructions (found in the first 164 pages of the Big Book).
I hope you don't believe this post to be a "judgment" of any sort. It is not. But those of us who struggle with alcoholism know eachother well. And if you can identify with maybe a fraction of what has been at least MY experience (inside my head), then it may shed a light on ways you can get a leg-up on this thing.
Never here to tell someone else how to run their recovery, just speaking from years of experience and from a sober mind that has benefitted in a life-saving way from AA.
sincerely, Joni
-- Edited by jonijoni1 on Saturday 5th of September 2009 09:29:27 PM
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
So many words of wisdom and truth .....so much to focus on and in..
It is part of my belief system that we encounter the right people at the right time for the right reasons..and that everyone has a message for us or a teaching to learn from..it may not be obvious to the writer but stands out like a sore thumb to the receiver..
Toni,
Wish you hadnt removed your post.I was actually working on what you said was going to come back to your post to focus deeper, digest and relate.but you had removed it..perhaps if you can remember what you said would you put it back up.
Joni Joni this is your interpretation of my words..and no you got it wrong on that I didnt feel judged by you in the slightest...the only part of your post that struck out at me......was unique..as I have never classed myself as unique.....even in the early days.I actually felt I had a category that could slot part of my cognitive behaviour in to this being.....there are others out there next to me with exactly the same pattern of behaviour that we feel our only resort is to quiten the mind with grog..therefore please dont judge yourself.. and I value your experiences, knowledge and help..please speak your mind.....and no not at all....I dont see any part of your post as being judgmental..
Pinkchip, Sunshine and Jerry..never truer words have been spoken.
Ill come back and post more later..today I am going to focus on the goal I set myself..
FHB
-- Edited by FHB on Saturday 5th of September 2009 10:37:15 PM
Yah, the kids in the jail I work at drank the hand gel / purell also. They cheek their meds constantly...The con staff and their parents into literally bringing drugs in for them at times... Recently some were trying to make some drug concoction from orange peels. They make dice out of bread to gamble...all the same stuff and the fact that they know this as young as 13??? Where did they learn it? From their parents, older siblings, and friends who have been to jail. I have recommended AA and NA upon discharge to many of the older kids (17 and 18), but I only do it really so they know it's there when the time comes (if it comes), they know where help is and they can go willingly. For me...I had to sink pretty low to get help. I should have wound up in jail for all my drunk driving and particularly for the car crash that I had on my last night drinking. For a supposed "smart person" like me, I did some dumb crap when drinking (and I now realize I do some dumb crap sober too but it's all good). Glad to hear you are paying attention and taking what you can from this stuff. Also just glad to have someone else here that does the same kind of work...taxing but there can be no pity party for us...we choose it and it does have it's benefits. There is the small portion of kids/inmates that get the message, want to change, and they are grateful for it. There are also ones that want to change and just cant...for various reasons and helping them has some rewards too.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
FHB, this program is for people who Want it, not for people who need it. It's a simple program and it must be difficult for someone with a psych degree to dumb down in order to understand it. I too was too smart for this program and went no where in the first two years until I "got it" that it's about deflation of ego and embracing humility <--something I still struggle with but am actively working on. So I'd say that doing it your way and evaluating the results will help you eventually with the first step. I wouldn't suggest giving the program "half measures" as it can become the focal point of negative results. Only you will know when you're "sick and tired of being sick and tired" and will be ready to embrace the program 100%. A friend of mine's father was a psychiatrist that evaluated criminals and he blew his brains out. There's a good chance that your job is making you sick (or keeping you sick) but the contrast between you and the people that you work with would indicate that you are healthier than you may be. If it was me, and I valued my sobriety above everything else, and knowing that my career was known to be detrimental to the mental health of those working in it, I'd consider another career. Please note that the above are general observations and that I don't know you and so, of course, I could not begin to judge you.
Dean
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 6th of September 2009 07:19:13 AM
Well when I read that part of others making assumptions, it was this comment by you,
"My negative thoughts are those issues we all have that we never discuss with others but just tear ourselves up inside...I am adopted therefore I have issues with gaining approval to the point of obsession...I am a perfectionist..... I wont then ever be rejected again....its a life pattern thought.....my common sense tells me I am thinking croc....but this thought haunts....."
I did think that perhaps it was me indeed, that had read or in this case, misread what you were referring to.
My story, or my own running away from the AA Program for so many years had to do with my own inability to even look at that 4th Step, and the concept of putting on paper, those demons that I had spent my life running away from. It was in my 2nd year of true Recovery, that I was diagnosed with very serious PTSD, and was willing to undergo, and stay in Therapy, which included hynotherapy, was working with a wonderful woman that specialized in PTSD. to get in deal with those demons, if I wanted to live. The Therapy took almost 10 years to get through, it was pretty tough, but today, I see it as Just a true Gift of Live, and so much a part of my own Recovery.
I did actually do a thorough 4th Step, befor that Therapy began, to the best of my ability, finally, just on blind Faith that it would somehow be ok, to write down, what had haunted me for so many years. But it was in that therapy that I was able to tackle one by one each demon, and watch it evaporate. That could only be accomplished with a very loving person that I had grown to trust, possible for the first time in my life, true trust.
Not that it made me unique either, just my own awareness that others did not or were not undergoing many years of hypotherapy surrounding their lost earlier years.
So when I read that "others had made assumptions that were not accurate", I felt very bad about that, and therefore removed it from my post.
Ok, to put it in simplier terms :), just like walking up to someone from behind that you feel certain is a person you know, and the person turns around and - I apologize, saying, "Sorry, I thought you were someone else" Kind of like that.
So happy you are here, and the main reason for taking it out was you are new to this, and the very last thing we ever want to do, is turn someone off, with an admitted assumption that I have just revealed to you. It is sort of ironic, I cut and pasted both your Post and my response in a Word document, to study just exactly I had made that error. And yep, I am human, and do make mistakes, but a big part of this Program is in Step 10, Admitted we were wrong, and making amends for that error. The ironic part was that I had just deleted both yesterday afternoon, I could have put the whole unedited response back in.
Your statement that is on the top of this response to me, perhaps had a completely different subject matter. But the very Bottom Line is That you are still here, and we are still just two woman that have a disease called Alcoholism, and in that we are very much alike, just like true sisters in Recovery.
You also opened my brain about editing, in the future, think I learned a valuable lesson here, we have a Private message System that is designed for Private Messaging. Had I to do it over, it would have much better to just written you a Private Message about all of this. Awe....Good ole Hindsight. always 20/20.
Ok, case closed
Hope to see more of you, looking forward to really getting to know you!
This is a WE Program, like for this instant You and Me.
Big Warm Hug to you.
Toni
-- Edited by toni baloney on Sunday 6th of September 2009 04:19:00 PM
Just a short response to Dean, whom I usually equate everything with 1 sentence "I agree with Dean." Yah, degrees in psychology do make it harder to swallow the program of AA. I will say, when I went in and oh so proudly shared I was a therapist, I was quickly shot down and told to drop that hat when I came into AA. I pretty much did because AA is a place where it is okay for me to be all messed up and not know all the answers. I thought people were devaluing my education and I think I recall being all upset and feeling judged. In actuality, my entire ego was based on "being a therapist" and I really had little self-knowledge and peace of mind and most all the OTHER people in the room had that. Furthermore, AA made me realize I don't work for me, my crazy boss, or my greedy company, I work for God and am but an instrument to help others through him (This might make me sound more like I think I'm friggin Jesus, but really it's the opposite). At least this is what I strive for. This is what also allowed me to leave work mostly at work. I also realize many others do the same job I do and every job a person does is a reflection of God as I understand him because we all do something that helps the world keep running. So, in sum, education in psychology can be a detriment to recovery in AA. I personally complicated the crap out of the program to the Nth degree and continue to do so at times. But...back to the point I just keep making...Anyone can recover if the willingness is there and the mind is at least partway open.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thanks for sharing more, FHB ... i've been EXTREMELY busy with work, so i haven't had time to read everyone's responses, so i want to do that before i respond more. Keep up the good work!
I think this forum will help you - AA does not work for everyone. Just writing about your experiences and knowing that you are not alone... and that people do care - well like you said it's a start...
