I had it out with my sponsor today. Now ex-sponsor. This has been building up for a while. I have been slowly realizing he can't take me any further, plus he only has 14 months more sobriety than I do and I need to move on. I do think, at heart, he is a good person, but he has a really nasty streak running through him and I don't want that and I don't admire it. He talks smack about people after every meeting. He has burned so many bridges with people in the rooms that it actually affects me in a negative way. My therapist stated I should get a new sponsor. About 10 people in the fellowship also advised the same thing. I will acknowledge my part in this. A lot of this revolves around the one suggestion that I didn't take of his...which was a big one. Not to start a relationship in my first year. With that said, I think I have done a good job of keeping the relationship in perspective at most times. It did start from a place of neediness, but I have grown and I firmly know I'm going to be fine regardless. I don't even see him that often anymore and the relationship has progressed so slowly and for good reason. My boyfriend knows I need to work on myself and he doesn't let me be codependent on him...plus I reached the point where I feel like crap about myself when I do go running to him expecting him to save me or make me feel better. Only I can do that for myself. Anyhow, my sponsor just started dating someone and was skipping meetings and pretty much is dragging the boyfriend around everywhere after only being together for like a month. Being told my boyfriend is my higher power from him is the pot calling the kettle black. Hypocrisy at it's worst. The final straw was him expecting that because he likes to be party planner for all of the round up fundraisers that I would automatically donate my whole saturday to do service with him on an even that is his service commitment and not mine. I have a service commitment right now of my own. I am not into party planning. It is not my thing. Regardless, I did dedicate over 2 hours to it today and still got a nasty ass set of phone calls about letting him down and why wasn't I there all day when I had a commitment (which I didn't). It was totally judging and he came at me from a place of pure ego..."My sponsee has to do everything I do or I look bad." I might add that out of 6 sponsees he has had, I'm the only one who hasn't gone out. I do not think he is an evil person, just holding onto some serious character defects. With that said I KNOW I have plenty of my own issues too. He actually likes to tell a story of how I became his sponsee on day six in which he laughs and says how reluctant he was to sponsor me because I was so "crazy" and he only did it because his sponsor (now someone whom he has also burned a bridge with) told him to do it. Being called crazy is a real hotspot for me. I do have depression and sometimes my brain just doesn't work like I want...Crazy is something I beat myself up over and am trying to let go of. I guess in a way, I am proud of myself because several months ago, this would have totally wrecked me. I just keep telling myself I have come too far to let this stop me. Early on, I would have been a crying mess, having panic attacks. Now I am just angry. Hopefully, there wont be too much ugliness around this development. I am worried about him talking smack about me because I've seen him do it to others so many times. Plus, I do not want to see him at meetings. I guess some suggestions would help here though I pretty much have the tools. Resentments only hurt me. Don't let someone else live in your head rent free. Pray from him and/or the resentment to be lifted (though my HP development still needs more work for this to be effective I think...I'll try anyhow). I am grateful to him for helping me get as far as I have, even though this turned so very sour today. I guess I feel both angry and sad. I thought keeping the same sponsor was a sign of success, but it's really not. Especially in this case. Like in all other relationships I've had, I held on way past the point where it was working for me. I was going to have to change sponsors anyhow, because this guy has not even worked the steps fully so, I need someone who has and someone with lengthy sobriety time. Time to run that Alanis Morisette song through my head. You live you learn.
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PC...good work and doesn't need a whole lot of justification. I was taught early on that if it wasn't working, it wasn't working and the choices about making my recovery better were mine including firing a sponsor should I feel that appropriate for me. I've done it and I have also been fired and drifted away from or what ever the separation looked like. I've had some pretty awesome sponsors who have held up a very bright light in front of me during this journey and I am so very grateful for that. One died. One left the program. The next one died also. Another one just drifted away or moved...(he and his wife were great for my recovery). Another one moved farther out to the coast when I moved deeper into the Pacific. The next one died and I went to visit his grave a week ago to let him know I'm still here for his support. My last sponsor works and lives out of town and I get to see him rarely though he and I were very often right on the same page, same paragraph, if not the same sentence most of the time. That was refreshing and to top it off were about the same age doing much of the same work for a living. I like face to facers and hate to worry about if the battery on my cell is going to quit on me or if I catch him in the middle of a job. Yeah I don't like excuses either and yet with 30 years under my belt I'm not as high maintenance as I use to be using a relationship with my HP and doing service liberally. I got a knee jerk reaction to one of the members who checked in here a while back and thought for myself (that use to be a no-no but now is just a minor trick) that long range sponsorhip isn't something I do real well. I listen best with my eyes and my ears rather than just my ears (which at this point are both bionic LOL).
Fire away if you see the need. Next time look closer and use patience. You can also interview them for the job. I've done it!!
jeeze, why did you wait so long. pick a better one this time. we tend to pick poorly in these situations. try picking a sponsor that might not be your first choice because of reluctance. I over looked my first sponsor because I thought that he'd be too hard on me. we're not picking a friend here. two years later, after many relapses, I tracked him down and he was the best sponsor that I ever had.
My first words to him...and I have wrote them here....when the sponsee/sponsor relationship began was "I won't let you down." I didn't have any self-esteem and pretty much not even a self. I did and still do have a fair amount of people pleasing in me and that drove this situation the way it did. I looked at it like failing at a job. I never even thought of the idea that he would be the one that failed me. Which is pretty much what happened. I'm pretty much of the mindset now that you don't scream at me ever and "I'm disappointed in you" should be reserved for me totally dissing meetings or being completely irresponsible...which clearly I wasn't.
It pretty much reminded me of the 7 year relationship with the alcoholic that I ended. How I used to put up with "You're mother is a bitch" and "You can't make it on your own" and "You don't believe in me (when really he was all I believed in at the time)." I put up with that crap for a long time too because according to mom "Good people don't just walk away from their relationships, they work on them." Old, dysfunctional tape running through my head that doesn't work for me any more. I tend to be a doormat and then I act all passive aggressive afterwards. I would like to be done with that too.
-- Edited by pinkchip on Sunday 14th of June 2009 07:17:44 AM
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I know that I am blown away when I discover that my mentors are imperfect humans and do things I cannot support. They're helping to make me a better person, so I should do whatever they want me to do, right? I always want them to act as absolute superheroes and always be right. I appreciated your message, because in a few short weeks, you've been a bit of a hero to me. (which has been just the thing to get me through early sobriety) I think it's good to remember to have checks and revisionary safeguards in place. There's a reason that leaders are given definite terms and limits of leadership, because what might be good right now, isn't necessarily the best later on. I too was raised to believe that work is required to foster and continue a relationship and also to see the goodness and beauty in all things and beings. I still believe these are positive notions. However, I've had a hard time distinguishing between giving in/up too early because it would be easier, and letting go because the dynamic has changed and is no longer mutually beneficial(or in fact never was and I couldn't see it). When I have failed to have clear safeguards and ignored warning signs, I've persued relationships that were dangerous, both physically and mentally. It's hard for me to see when I'm in it. I think humans are so confusing, and I can analyze my head around just about anything. For me, I have to be careful to resist the desire to put people, especially mentors, on a pedestal.
On this site I known you to be a clear and concise poster, with heartfelt thoughts and lots to give to others, very intelligent. I hope you are able to listen to your logic and your instincts and do what's best for yourself.
Well I can only share my own experience with the Sponsorship part. When I was in Relapse MODE, I would go back to AA, find a Sponsor, always with one or two years tops, and I would manipulate the relationship, as much as I could always, and then go right back to drinking. This was MY way, right.
Well crawling back into the rooms, Only by the Grace of God, this time around I sat and listened and listened, I eventually picked an older woman, that had 20 years, about 10 degrees in Phychology, and still lectured at Stanford. She was what I would call TOUGH as NAILS. I recall clearly her terms, meet once a week, to talk ONLY about the 12 Steps, at a Resturant that was between where she and I lived.
In our first meeting, I said to her, I am looking so forward to becoming friends. Her response to that statement, (although I found it to be of an almost cruel thing) to say, was I believe the line and the difference to me making it finally in this AA Program. Her comment was crystal clear, she said "Toni, we are not friends, I have agreed to be your Sponsor . And those are my only intentions".
She did not say to sooth my poor little hurt ego, well we will see if we can be friends later. Nothing. But we did work, or rather she saw to it, that I Worked the Steps, vigorously, slowly and Completely, and if she felt I was not really digesting the step I was on, then we would do it over, and over, until she felt that we could move to the next step.
She was like my Professor, and that was what she did for a living, so that worked for me. I was the student.
It was so difficult and so wonderful at the same time to be working with someone that I could not manipulate, or con in some way as to my way, there was no "my way" to this.
So any suggestion out of me this morning would be someone that is on the tough side, with over 10 years, and by tough i mean someone that is going to be there for you, for the 12 Steps of this Program. Someone that will make you work you ass off in getting them right, and the patience to see when you are not getting them, to go back and repeat the previous Step, so you can successfully go on to the next.
For me, and my choice, when it came to doing the 5th Step, I was working with a man that also had some time in the Program, that worked as a Professional Counselor, and I choose to do the 5th Step with him, and never regreted that. It was by far the most difficult step, for me.
When someone today asked me to Sponsor them, I ask for a meeting before making a commitment, and discuss that Sponsorship to me means only the working of the 12 Steps, and I have found for some, they were not interested, and it would take a while, to see that even thought they had agreed in the beginning, they wanted to or rather tried to, make it about a personal friendship. I simply would bring it up and say we have to stay ON THE Steps, or we can sever this relationship, and be friends. and sadly there have been too many that did not want to Rigerously get to work on the Steps.
So I will leave it at that. You have to decide for yourself, and look and find a new Sponsor, and just like many have said, this happens all the time.
What caught my eye this morning, was not so much that Sponsorship thing as much as the Burning Resentment. That part, the Resentment, is a luxury we cannot afford.
Praying that you find just the right person this time. You bring so much good positive stuff to this MIP Board, feel certain that you can take that positive attitude and go get that right Sponsor for YOU. Thinking of that "take what you want and leave the rest" Just leave that old sponsor, and find what you want, and need for your Recovery.
When I agree to sponsor someone Ibeginwith telling them:
"I am an alcoholic who is trying to work a program just like you or anyone else therefore I have character defects, I have shortcomings, I am NOT perfect, I WILL make mistakes, I am only HUMAN, if you stay sober don't give me credit, if you get drunk don't blame me. AND if you see something in me (or anyone) that you don't (or do) like, always remember 'if you spot it you got it' and when we point a finger at others we have 3 pointing back at us"
Toni is correct. Get over the resentment and get on with your program.
~ Jen
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All of you are correct. The one time I sat down to do steps with him he was 20 minutes late, kept interupting me to take phone calls from his job and never pursued it again. He also hasn't worked them himself so therefore what was the point other than having someone to talk to about some of the difficult issues of sobriety and growth and change? Yes, get over the resentment. I don't want to hurt him anymore. And he did help me...in the beginning.
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He did the best that he could and you stayed sober, "win win". Next! I think that bumping heads with sponsors, in early sobriety is par for the course. We sponsors/sponsees are emotional people, end of report.
I apologized. Took suggestions from your guys...especially jen, toni, and dean. I was not doing a good job keeping my side of the street clean while slinging mud and being an ugly person. That is definitely not who I want to be. He apologized back. We both over-reacted. It was ultra-childish and boundaries were way overstepped...another thing I need to work on. Yes, for now this relationship is going to be much more professional and have to do with steps. It may be hard to believe after all the crap I spewed on here that I could or would want to mend this...but I wouldn't have gotten so upset if some/many of the things he said were not true. Anyhow, this relationship is going to be more professional now. I do not need to call him every day. I need to call him when I need to call him. I'm not in crisis anymore on a daily basis and he is not my best friend. Steps will be the focus, unless I have some sort of meltdown, but mostly I can step up and handle things with the tools I picked up already. It's a transition...going from needing to be completely babysat and having to call daily to a more mature relationship working steps. We do learn from each other. The whole thing sucked ass, but I wouldn't grow from someone that never chaillenged me either. He knows not to scream at me and communicate some expectations more clearly to avoid this from happening again. Also...I don't expect him to be my sponsor forever.
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All of you are correct. The one time I sat down to do steps with him he was 20 minutes late, kept interupting me to take phone calls from his job and never pursued it again. He also hasn't worked them himself so therefore what was the point other than having someone to talk to about some of the difficult issues of sobriety and growth and change? Yes, get over the resentment. I don't want to hurt him anymore. And he did help me...in the beginning.
My first sponsor helped me in the beginning, but he also kept taking phone calls "I'm sorry, I have to take this one" and canceled meetings with me twice in the first few weeks. Since we were only meeting once a week on a regular basis, this was a big deal to me - I had been looking forward to our meeting. The first time I tried to dump him, he said that I should wait till after he was done with little league and that he'd have more free time then. I vented about this in a meeting and someone else came up to me and said that was complete BS - which was how I felt. If he didn't want to make the commitment, he should have said no and let me find someone who WAS willing, instead of me putting my damn AA life on hold for him. (He had 5 years sobriety). So now here I am without a sponsor again (I just called him the other day and left a nice message saying that I was going to work with someone else, and thanks for his service.)
But as far as the original message in this thread - you're worried about him talking smack about you? Seriously? All that does is reflect poorly upon him. At the AA groups I go to, anyone he talked to would listen politely and then promptly forget anything he had said. Focus on your own sobriety and don't worry about him.
I thought about that too Dean and have a few of those nice old retired men in my support network. There is only one problems with that. They are gay and I am still young and (said humbly) sexy. Most of those guys are the same ones that kiss me on the cheek and hug me for 10 seconds whenever they see me. Some of them actually go for the lips! I recognize I probably made all of you straight guys just vomit but...hey.. If I could find one that thought I was ugly as sin it could work great... The last time I was having sponsor issue and called one of them, he told me to just forget about it can go to the movies with him. Hrmm.
Also, Flying Squirrel, I have a 8 and a half months history now with my sponsor. If he starts taking phone calls during our step work, I'm pretty sure I can tell him to put it on hold and he won't get offended now. He admits learning from me...I am his first sponsee, and the only one he's had that has stayed sober. Something is working here. I can call him on his BS to a degree, but neither of us can ever go towards what happened this weekend.
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PC maybe you should consider a hetero married old timer. There's only one big book, they don't make a pink copy. . One of my biggest goals out of sobriety was to be happily married, and relationship skills don't vary by sex or sexual preference.
That is actually a good suggestion dean. I do hit 1 straight/mixed sort of meeting a week and I can think of 1 person who is a regular at that meeting with about 20 years sobriety who is a straight man, with a good program in action. For now, I am going to finish my steps 2 and 3 in writing with my sponsor and then figure out the change after I hit a year.
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AA has always had it's share of 13th steppers. The guys going for the lips are blatently guilty. If a guy finds you hot, I don't think he'd make a good sponsor, just my opinion. I agree with Dean, maybe a str8 guy who isn't homophobic would be the answer. One of the biggest components of recovery is to not judge people or take their inventory. This is about you getting the help from a qualified sposor, you'll know when you find the right one.
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Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. ~Buddha
Agreed...taking others' inventory is not good. I have to watch that seriously. I literally went to school to learn how to diagnose mental pathology in others...degree in clinicial psychology. Much of the time, I wish I could undo that education because it was really just a 5 year process of learning to be judgmental of others and also overpathologizing myself. The therapist hat needs to get hung up at work cuz I didn't earn a seat in AA by knowing everything about people and how to live. Furthermore, even therapy doesn't work unless the client is open to change so whatever I think doesn't much matter there either in many cases.
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Good for you PC. Awesome.