Self hatred

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

Self hatred

Jason J · Veteran Member

I know what you are talking about. I did something very similar 13 years ago. It took me almost 10 to admit to myself what I had done and several more (and being betrayed myself) to appologize to me ex. She to was very understanding and made similar comments that should have made me feel better. I still feel badly about it.

I focus on the fact that I'm living my life differently now and I have an opportunity to be a better person. The neat thing I've discovered is once you make an improvement it doesn't have to stop there, you can always do more. I revel in doing the next right thing. I have a long way to go in this program but look forward to being an example to others. That's the only thing I can do to make up for my past mistakes.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

T3, that's why we all drank, to escape the feelings that we had about ourselves. The first obstacle that we have to overcome is that we don't think very well about anything, let alone judging ourselves. Working the steps is a process in which we expose our past behaviors, learn that they weren't as uniquely bad as we thought, accept them ourselves, forgive others and ourselves, live better and over time bank on our new life and base our self esteem, and self worth on our sober life. We can't sit still and get stuck in our crappy thinking about the past. One of my favorite quotes about this is from the late Enzo Ferrari. When asked why his cars have such small dysfunctional mirrors he said "What's passed is past, and when you're in the front what difference does it make what is behind you"

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

StPeteDean wrote:

T3, that's why we all drank, to escape the feelings that we had about ourselves. The first obstacle that we have to overcome is that we don't think very well about anything, let alone judging ourselves. Working the steps is a process in which we expose our past behaviors, learn that they weren't as uniquely bad as we thought, accept them ourselves, forgive others and ourselves, live better and over time bank on our new life and base our self esteem, and self worth on our sober life. We can't sit still and get stuck in our crappy thinking about the past. One of my favorite quotes about this is from the late Enzo Ferrari. When asked why his cars have such small dysfunctional mirrors he said "What's passed is past, and when you're in the front what difference does it make what is behind you"

Pete,

Thank you for these words. That last quote from Ferrari hits the mark.

It is my hope that, as I work the 12 steps, that my perspective will change. Right now all I see is my guilt as I have just come out of a 3 year drunk. I do know that my life will take on a newness and with that my thinking will change about the past and about myself.

Thanks again!

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

I just read the AA Promises and #3 slapped me! We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it!

I will latch onto that one!

The AA Promises

If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it.

We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace.

No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others.

That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear.

We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows.

Self-seeking will slip away.

Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.

Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us.

We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us.

We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves.

Are these extravagant promises? We think not.

They are being fulfilled among us - sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

They will always materialize if we work for them.

Alcoholics Anonymous p83-84

Doll · MIP Old Timer

The BB clearly tells us drinking is only a symptom of what's wrong.

Since I've been in AA, I've discovered I'm passive aggressive, an enabler, a people pleaser, and on and on.

At my first meeting someone said to me, "if you want to find out how fucked up you really are, keep coming back". !

Wow! I'm glad I wanted to know. It's like any other problem, can't work on it, change it or fix it if I don't know what it is.

So, Keep coming back TTT!

(((hugs)))

Jen

-- Edited by Doll on Sunday 7th of June 2009 08:33:52 AM

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

T3, it's our ego that beats us over the head about our past. It's our ego that makes us think that everyone thinks badly about us. Everyone is too busy thinking about themselves to think about us, we're just not that important, yet we are stuck in this childish stage of our development where it was ok to only think about me me me (a 2 year old). Dale Carnegie, in his book "how to win friends and influence people" described how other people that he just met reported to others, what a great guy Dale was. He went on further to say that the conversation with these people, who thought him such a great guy consisted only of Dale asking the other people to talk about themselves, and listen attentively, never disclosing one thing about himself. These people felt soooo good about him listening while they talked about themselves for an hour that they thought Dale was a person of high morals, smart, educated, and a great friend.... When in reality they knew nothing about him (or really cared to). Out of sight, out of mind, they forget about us a long long long time before we will forget about ourselves. It's comical once you stop and think about our "inner universe" lol

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Sunday 7th of June 2009 09:06:07 AM

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Dear, dear Richard. You are beautiful beyond measure though your illness will never tell you that.

God does for us that which we're unable to do for ourselves & one of those things is forgiveness. It sounds pretensious & self-interested to forgive ourselves 'just so we can move on' & our consciences knows this hence we're bound to our guilt & shame & our disease loves that! It is a defect of character to hang onto grief & regret to the extent it erodes our self-worth (rather than being learned from as lessons) so in time we learn how to practice our program in recognising this, becoming willing to let go of it & then offering it up in our surrender. We let go of whatever stands in the way of God's will for us. I interpret this as obedience.

I understand God as unconditional loving & forgiveness which we can only access when we get our egos out of the way & let that sweet spiritual energy come shining through as the sunlight of the spirit the BB speaks of. I thought I was a loving person until I came to AA & got up the courage to face just what my liabilities were so that I can continue to learn about & be willing to change. Though I believe God's Love itself is perfect I will only ever be able to practice progress & not perfection.

My 3rd Step 5 revealed to me how perfectionism is one of my biggest defects that runs right through so much in a cunning, baffling & very powerful way. It motivates my self-hatred & my approval-seeking amongst many other things I'll come to know but the diffference now & why the promises are able to be coming true for me is that I can have the choice today to let it go & another beautiful thing is that I'm actually able to prefer serenity to self-punishment these days.

It does take much much practice & many many examples from my fellowship but I am learning & I know very much that you will learn how to love you (as a verb) through the practice of the program too. Your Honesty, Openmindedness & Willingness is a Gift to see. You do deserve all the Happiness, Joys & Freedom this program has to offer. I hope you enjoy coming to understand in your Higher Power's will for you, Danielle x

toni baloney · Senior Member

Morning Richard,

Sort of chuckling, cause I got it right today.

But I recall having all your thoughts in early recovery. If I ever heard the term, self-love it would make me want to run to the ladies room, to throw up.

Just in my head, I visualized that I was loaded down with these volumes of Self-Hatred, so much so, made my arms hurt, Reasons: Almost, if not identical to yours.

The dilligent working of all the 12 steps, is how things changed for me. And with my first husband, we had sort of a friendship for our two children, but not a real friendship. And in making my amends to him, saved it for last, it was truly the hardest, and I had to keep in mind, that my deep apology was necessary, and whether he accepted it, or not, was not the point, I had to get the guilt and very deep shame finally out of me, and I Prayed that God would give me the words. A lot of fear was still there, and as it turned out, he was great to about it, and he said what your former wife said to, that it takes two, and we had a great lunch, and ended the lunch with laughing about some of the good stuff, and there was a lot of good stuff in our marriage. From that point on, we were truly friends, and I recall remembering how that felt on the inside, a burden in my heart had been lifted.

I dont believe anyone walks in the doors of AA, with any sense of true self, let alone self esteem, we have robbed ourselves of so much, with our drinking, well speaking for me, anyway, I was lost to all, and especially lost to the one person I needed the most, and that was myself.

You have received so many great responses here, just wanted to share my 2 cents.

Hugs, Toni

-- Edited by toni baloney on Sunday 7th of June 2009 12:40:05 PM

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

Thanks everyone! I have read and re-read all of your posts.

I have to say that I am confident that as I work through the steps that there will be a time when I put this loathing in its proper place, though I don't know where that is right now.

Thank you again all for taking the time to write well thought out answers. I appreciate your investment in my recovery.

Dave Harm · Senior Member

Hi Richard,

I too, did some down right evil things to my family during the last days of my drinking. And while I have accepted these mistakes I still struggle with it from time to time. The way you speak, is the same place where I came from. It is not the guilt that you feel, but rather the shame.

And there is a drastic difference between the two. Having an affair is a mistake. There is a way back, by admitting the mistake and making amends. Which you have done. But the shame keeps saying that not only did you make a mistake, but now you are a mistake. It becomes part of the personality.

This is the part that I struggle with. I know I made a mistake, but that doesn't mean I am a mistake. I, too, struggle with "not regretting the past nor wishing to shut the door on it."

But I have come to accept it and in a way even embrace it. I feel blessed and cursed at the same time because I remember my last drunk like it was yesterday, which keeps those mistakes fresh in my mind. So I constantly need to remind myself, that while I made a mistake, I am not a mistake...

Dave

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

Dave! Those are profound words that really hit a target in me. You are so right! It is shame I feel, not guilt and it has become a part of my personality.

Does anyone know if there is something in the BB that talks about how to handle the shame of our past?

I have heard some people say that they have lived a life wherein they have no regrets. I so envy those people if what they say is true. What an incredible thing it must be to live a life where you done absolutely nothing that you are ashamed of.

Thanks again Dave!

And all of you!

Dave Harm · Senior Member

The Big Book was written long before shame was recognized. John Bradshaw is a heck of an author who speaks about shame in quite a bit of detail. He is the one who taught me about it. He is a recovering alcoholic (42 years sober) so I have no problem listening to his words.

He has many books out, but the one to start with would be "Healing the Shame that Binds You."

-- Edited by Dave Harm on Sunday 7th of June 2009 04:57:54 PM

kkotz401 · Senior Member

Don't be so hard on yourself. We all make mistakes.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

I second Dave's recommendation of the John Bradshaw books. They help me immeasurably. I don't think that I'd be here today, let alone sober. While you're picking up "Healing the shame.." get a copy of "On the family" which is a service manual for any member of a dysfunctional family.

TooTaaToo · Veteran Member

All,

I ordered John Bradshaw's book. Thanks for the suggestions. Hopefully it will give me that truths that I need to set my mind and heart in the right place for healing.

Richard

Halfwolf · Veteran Member

I didn't like myself for allot of years and sometimes I still don't. Today I accept myself for who and what I am. I ask God to remove my character defects. They still pop up but at least now I recognize them and can cut them off at the pass (sometimes)