Worse than before

MDC · Senior Member

Worse than before

TLH · MIP Old Timer

MDC wrote:
I guess I've gone from a high bottom to a low bottom. Where is the real bottom?

Well- the good news is there's a program that works, and it's pretty much free and relatively easy- all you have to do is follow instructions. The bad is it can get much, much worse. How many bottoms you hit are really up to you. The one mistake I find being perpetuated by a lot of my friends in the program is telling people that you have to hit bottom. That's so subject to interpretation. You can choose your bottom- all you have to do is decide that you don't want to do this futile dance anymore.

MDC wrote:
BTW, not drinking tonight, but it doesn't feel like a victory. I'm at a complete loss as to what to do.

Get to a meeting, call AA and talk to people who have been there. How many years do you have invested in drinking? You expect things to be peachy instantly? If you water the lawn it will grow- you don't stand there exclaiming that the grass is dieing and expect that to make it green, right? Things will get better- hang in there- but you have to do the work. You don't have to do all of it at once, but you have to do some of it.

Dont take the first drink. Go to meetings- get a sponsor- get into service- read the big book.

And most of all, have a little faith. We aren't all blowing smoke up your ass in some nationwide conspiracy- some of us were where you are, and things have gotten better for us. Trust.

Hang in there. Aloha- Toby

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Oh yeah- the title, "Worse than before" is pretty much spot on. The disease is progressive- it gets worse. It doesn't really stop getting worse without work. Not to be melodramatic, but the end of that road is late stage alcoholism and death.

(On a side note- Check out "Drunk in Public" by David J Sperling here:

http://www.furiouslove.com/id104.html

The trailers pretty well spell out what the contents of the movie are. I have this and wish I could post the whole thing online- it's really a sad story but pretty well depicts the road to late stage alcoholism.)

MDC · Senior Member

Maybe I was over dramatic with worse than before, I don't have a gun out. It's hard to believe how much life can suck. I'll check out "drunk in public" I think I've been charged with that a few times. Why are things so much harder when sober, are they, or do you just suddenly give a damn? My whole life has been drinking and trying to take care of my family, now both are gone.

TLH · MIP Old Timer

Yeah- I know what mean about things seeming harder without "medication". But give it time- for me over time I realized that not being medicated became less alien and I found I dealt with stuff much more "gracefully".

I have a childhood friend who is getting sober- pretty much the last of our "pack" to get sober. He's having a hard time but hanging in there, doing what he has to. The other day I was smiling when he called me and told me, "I'm having a hard time with the second half of the first step." Gotta have a sense of humor to stay sane sometimes. One day he calls me super depressed, and I really was a little worried about him and called another mutual sober friend halfway around the world and had him check in on him. The next day my newly sober friend calls me and doesn't hide the sarcasm in his tone when he says, "I've taken the shotgun out of my mouth and moved it to under my chin." But we can talk like that amongst our group without raising too much concern.

Sometimes I just need someone to talk to- that's part of my alcoholism. I tend to internalize, compartmentalize and process- historically I have avoided asking for help or airing my troubles with another man (especially another man- that was hard for me.) But today I have to face some of the same problems as when I drank, but when I feel them getting me down I get to a meeting or call one of the guys I know who are in the program and we blow off steam. We don't always talk about the problem- sometimes we just go kick around and shoot the shit.

I do this because I know from experience (I've had LOTS of relapse experience) after a lot of trial and error that I feel a lot worse after I drink. In fact, drinking eventually stopped doing it for me- it became work. Eventually it became pretty apparent that the magic was gone, and all that was left was pain and suffering. No bullshit, no melodrama- this is my bare bones truth.

These days I hit the skateparks a lot- something I've done since I was a kid. I used to go surf but it's a little too crowded in the water for me these days, and sometimes I need to just go burn off some nervous energy without a lot of chatter. But for a long time the last thing I needed was to be alone- idle hands are the devil's playthings and all that jazz- and so I went to a lot of meetings and spent a lot of time with other people who were sober, people who related to what I was going through.

Hang in there. Aloha- Toby

Dakota · Senior Member

"... after a lot of trial and error that I feel a lot worse after I drink. In fact, drinking eventually stopped doing it for me- it became work. Eventually it became pretty apparent that the magic was gone, and all that was left was pain and suffering. No bullshit, no melodrama- this is my bare bones truth. "

So true.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Well mark, no sense comparing bad to bad. That's like trying to smell two rotten gallons of milk and see which one is more rotten. Both of them stink so you would throw them both out and get a new gallon. If I were you, and I really really hope you do this....I would hit multiple meetings a day right now while you have the time. Is there a clubhouse near you?

To remind you of why you stay sober for you: Right now, you are so tied to both alcoholism and your relationship that you can't see the forest through the trees. After being with another alcoholic for 7 years in a screwy relationship with all sorts of forgiving the unforgivable because of fear of being on my own, where did that leave me? It left me as a shell of a person. When you drink, your world gets smaller and smaller. I had no real friends of my own, no life, no hobbies, and absolutely nothing that I did to nourish myself AT ALL. So...hit a ton of meetings and some of that experience, strength and hope from others is going to rub off on you. You will hear your story (you are already hearing it here from several people even though I'm not sure you're acknowledging it). One day, maybe a few months from now, maybe longer, you will have a few automatic answers for why to stay sober for you. I can only tell you why I stay sober for me now:

*There virtually was no "me" before I started AA. My whole self was defined around work and the relationship I was in and both were unsatisfying. Now there is actually a "me" and it's a good thing. It will go away if I drink.

*My chief enabler is gone now (and it sounds like yours is too). If I am a raging drunk right now, who is going to pay my mortgage? Who is going to feed my cat? Who is going to clean this house? Who will do my laundry? If I get drunk now that I'm on my own, there WILL be a quick descent into me stumbling around this house, calling people saying I'm going to kill myself...The house will be in shambles. There will be cat shit and piss everywhere...not to mention the cat might die. I might die. I don't want to go there and I don't want that for ME.

*I know now for sure that I am no good for anyone else unless I am sober.

*I value what I am learning in AA and the growth I see in me. It took time to just grow this much and I'm not going to turn back the clock and start over.

*I am not the shitty person I thought I was. In fact, I am a good person. I help other people on a daily basis. I used to bitch and moan about that being a burden. Now I see it's a gift from God that I landed in the career I did and that I have abilities to counsel and help others. Self pity and drinking will take me right back to resenting my job and other people.

*God does have a plan for both me and you. The plan is not for Mark (both of us marks) to stay miserable forever. It might feel like that now, but it won't stay that way. How am I going to do God's will or be right with God at all if I am plastered all the time?

*Lastly, I never knew what gratitude was. I was too busy clutching to misery and being afraid to grow. It did take starting over from what I thought was nothing to be able to appreciate what I have always had and also what I've build up since sober.

I did go through a harsh depression in the first few months and I have shared that with you. It would have lasted twice as long or it might never have ended if I didn't aggressively seek help just for myself. How insane it was living that life of "Mark helps others all day long then goes home, gets plastered and has others do everything for him?" Totally insane. I just wanted you to know that when I wrote that roller coaster analogy thing I posted on here, I found myself crying through quite a bit of it. I have done a lot of crying in my life, but not that kind of crying. I was so grateful for this journey because it has been the hardest one of my life and without AA, it would not have turned out this way. It's not the greatest life ever right now, but it's definitely A LIFE and I didn't really have one before. Keep your chin up. Put one foot in front of the other and don't look back! You are not a shitty person and you are not "nothing" without your marriage in tact. I look forward to hearing about your journey in recovery. The last AAism...in this post...I swear..."Live in the solution Mark, not the problem."

toni baloney · Senior Member

Hi There Mark,

Good to see you Posting.

You have received so much good advise from others, so I dont feel a need to add mine right now, but I did want to offer you part of a conversation I had with a Professional AA counselor, when I was "coming too" with a clear desire that i did not want to die of this Disease.

I was in her office, and was telling her about all the ups and downs of my emotions, my husband had left me, and because he ran his business out of our home, I was the one that had to leave and find another place to live, until i could save the money to return to California.

I was attending AA Meeting everyday at 600 pm, and that was a committment that i had made to her, and to this day I recall her words when I was talking about all the crying, the pain, feeling so lost, and the fear or rather being scared to death of what I was going to do.

She said it with some sympathy, but her focus was on my sobriety, and she referred to the Alcohol as the Bandage that I had worn over all problems for so so so many years, ok, I'll get to my point, she said, "Toni, you just ripped off the bandage and it really hurts, but I guarantee you that with Air and Sunlight on what has been festering under that Bandage (getting drunk daily), that you have to give the wounds time to heal. Long lasting wounds that have been covered with a Bandage cannot Heal, really ever, but I do promise you that with Sun, Air, AA Daily, and God in you life for the first time ever, EVERYTHING WILL BE OK, but this will not happen overnight." But if you can make a firm commitment to AA daily, and a further commitment that you will keep your SOBRIETY IN FIRST PLACE, time will heal these wounds, and some might take a while, and some might take a very long while, but how you are feeling right now, will change, that I promise, AA will show you how to do all these things, as long as you agree to listen and accept what you are learning. and to follow the simply suggestions in the AA Program.

Mark, this takes me back a ways, but that scenario of a Bandage, being of course Alcohol, maybe because I happen to be a more visual person, I got that, so no matter what, I would do what ever was necessary to not have that bandage on in the future. Another thing that comes to mind for me, is that Alcohol robbed me of how I was really feeling, daily, under the influence, is just being under the influence, and feelings that came up, while drunk, I look back at those rather "sloushy" emotions for myself, and then slowly I began to feel things for real, there was not a lot of drama to my thinking, and/ or my emotions, but they were Sober thoughts and Feelings.

Hugs to you, and hope to see you hear again.

PS. Just for the thread, I wanted to share something that someone said a long time ago in a meeting, he said, "everyone talks about a hard bottom, a high bottom, and whatever, he said, " In my opinion everyone is full of "s--t". The ONLY BOTTOM IN THE DISEASE OF ALCOHOLISM IS 6' UNDER GROUND"

Dont know why I added that last stuff, just food for thought, I guess.

Hugs again Mark, and hoping the meetings are helping.

Toni

-- Edited by toni baloney on Friday 15th of May 2009 11:37:57 AM

Dakota · Senior Member

"In fact, I am a good person."

Pinkchip you are an amazing person. You have grown so much.

That is the thing about going through painful life experiences. Once we get through them, when we get through them, there is this life rebirth or something. Whatever you want to call it, it is just amazing.

Most the posts of the successful sober folks are just amazing to me. How you can and do go through the very worst of times and come out the other side full of all kinds of good stuff. It is shared and that is to me the most valuable stuff in this life.

People caring for one another in the most sincerest of ways.

Don't ever underestimate your value is a good lesson we all need to hardwire into our fabric.

Every one who posts has important gifts. They can be seen when we get and STAY sober. It is so very hard, isn't it.

Dave Harm · Senior Member

Oh Mark,

I can feel your pain because I've been there. It's not a fun place. The loneliest place in the world for an alcoholic is realizing he can no longer live a life with alcohol, but he can't imagine a live without it.

I'm sorry if your marriage is over. But your kids are young and will need a father. In time, they will forget all the insanity that alcoholism has brought to there family. They will forget because of sobriety. The best gift I have given my children is my own health - by staying sober.

Start reading "The Promises" that start on the bottom of page 83 in the Big Book. I used to read them all the time. For me they were a life saver. I wanted those promises. And gratefully, I have received them.

Dave

[video=www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmFuUBEuS38&feature=channel]

MDC · Senior Member

Thanks, a little good news, I managed to keep my job, atleast for now. I know it might not be a good idea to make too many changes too fast, But I'm thinking of quitting, cashing out my 401k, I know I'll get killed on taxes and penalities, trying to sell the house, taking the equity abd 401k and leaving. I don't care where I go, I just need a "new start" Thing were going good, until something/someone from 3 years ago came back to bite me. I just want away from here. Away from the people causing me problems, away from my wife's "friend" away from my old "friend" Just away, anywhere. I'll still have to deal with my alcoholism, but I won't keep dealing with the people that are "out to get me."

I want away from everyone, everything. Friends, family, everthing.

Has anyone here ever left for a fresh star? Did it work out?

-- Edited by MDC on Friday 15th of May 2009 03:14:58 PM

Dave Harm · Senior Member

Though my drinking was the cause for my divorce, my ex did have a "friend" for the last year we were a couple and the two years we were separated I stayed.

Up until that point every time I got into trouble I ran. That was the first time in my life that I stayed till the bitter end. I didn't leave until our divorce was final and I had straightened out all the messes I had created. It was a long two years - which I doubt I would have survived if it wasn't for AA. They helped keep me sane.

At the time, I was in counseling and my counselor told me if I could handle it - it might end up being pretty comical. He told me that my ex's friend always had an escape because we were married. After I filed for divorce, there was no longer an escape for him. There was a lot of drama in that family and while it was sad to watch it was also quite refreshing because it showed me that while my drinking was part of the problem it wasn't the whole problem.

During those two years my kids would visit and say mom's going to get married and so on. Whatever! But I kept working the program and getting my house in order.

After two years, my ex still wasn't married and her life was more out of control then it was when we were married, while I cleaned up all the damage my drinking caused.

When that was done, I quit my job and moved. I left knowing that I didn't burn any bridges and did my best to repair the ones that were destroyed. For me, I needed to do that. I needed to finally stay some place to the end without running. And looking back at it, while it wasn't easy, I'm glad my Higher Power gave me the strength to see it through to it's conclusion.

But again, that's just me...

MDC · Senior Member

Thanks Dave. I don't want to see her hurt, I really do love her. When I learned of her affair, I sat right here,and you know the pain I felt. I wanted nothing more than to die, right there, right then. It would have been easier than this. Now she learned of my mistake, although it was 3 years ago to me, she just learned of it, it might as well have been last week. I thought there was not any pain more than that of learning of her affair, I was wrong. Knowing that I caused her that same pain, is worse.

She just left to go "think." She left the kids here, so I an't go to a meeting today, which is just as well, honestly, I would stop and get a drink instead. I'm so lost and so weak now. After getting into this, I thought it was really working. I don't nkow wheather I need AA, a counsler, a drink, or to just whatever. Where the F*** is that peace and serenity? Anyway, I created this mess, and there is nothing I can do to fix it. I'm supposed to focus on what I can control, but right now, that's nothing..

Dave Harm · Senior Member

Hey Mark,

I hope you believe me when I say I know your pain. When I first found out, I sat and cried for hours. My counselor told me that she found it interesting that I allowed myself to cry. Her point was that, I cried because I was no longer able to run to alcohol.

When I stopped crying, I was half way excited. Why? Because I felt the pain. I was still a human being and I could feel. After awhile, I wished it would stop, but it was there for awhile.

I think you also know the answer is not alcohol. I hope you also believe me when I say the pain will go away and the sun will shine again. I had your dilemma more then once with the ex leaving me alone with the kids. Yet, I knew I needed AA. It was at those times I found some true friends that would watch the kids for a couple of hours so I could hit a meeting.

Remember this pain. So there won't be a next time. I pray to my Higher Power that I never go through that much pain again. For me, the memories of that pain has kept me sober.

It will get better - believe that. And pray for it.

In my thoughts and prayers,
Dave

MDC · Senior Member

I think I may be beyond AA's help. The alcohol is only one issue I'm dealing with. Your right, I'll never forget this pain, but I can stop it.

-- Edited by MDC on Friday 15th of May 2009 06:23:21 PM

TLH · MIP Old Timer

We all thought that. Nobody has just alcoholism to deal with. We all pretty much have other stuff we deal with. For me, medicating with alcohol was just a "band-aid" I used as a quick fix to stave off dealing with my other stuff.

It sounds to me like you are suffering from anxiety or depression or something (I'm not a doctor- have just been there.) My advice to you is either to call AA and tell them you could use some help or go to your local emergency ward and ask to talk to someone about anxiety.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hey Mark,
I know the feeling. Having to sit and experience the wreckage of the past. My x-wife had a "friend" also. And I never had one. But as my sponsor at the time pointed out, my "friend" was alcohol. I spent most of my time with it and abandoned my wife. That's no excuse for what she did. My sponsor also pointed out that our marriage was over a long time ago, and that fidelity was the last thing to go, just like in a relapse, the drink is the last part. Don't you wonder why your wife was ok with her infidelity but not ok with your's? A bit hypocritical dontcha think?

About the running away part. "Geographical cures" never work, because wherever you go, you go with you.
I tried by taking a job in Guam, 3 month sober and separated from my X. I was even more miseable trying to cope with a new job, living situation, lifestyle, no friends....It was horrible for quite awhile and I drank and was terrified over that. I was the guy that had to stay home on birthdays and holidays because I'd been arrested on every one of them. I had go to jail on vacation a few times as well. The only reason I went to Guam was because I was "Sober".

It's time for you to face your problems, realize that they are not that big, there's a solution, and the fellowship will help you get through it but you have to walk the walk. What's the worst case scenario about your marriage being over? You're going to be alone for awhile. Once I got over that, a few months later I had a few sober room mates, I started enjoying life again. I learned that being single is very enjoyable, and even now in a very happy 16 year relationship, at 49, if the untihinkable were to happen, I'd enjoy it again. I built a Sober foundation living alone that I enjoyed and it worked well. I know that I can always go back to that and that makes my life with my spouse even greater becasue I know that I'm together with her of my own free will not because I'm afraid of being alone, like all of my past relationships.

MDC · Senior Member

I can relate to staying home on holidays and vacation. came for vacation and left on probation...I've been there and done that. I know I can't go far enough away to get away from me, but It seems like getting away from everyone else might help, "friends" family, everyone...but I gues the real problem is with me. I can't get away from me, and sooner or later, I will have to face my past. Timing sucks though.