Willful?

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Willful?

Doll · MIP Old Timer

"How It Works" Ch 5 from the BB

"Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. "

It wasn't until I let go absolutely that I came into actual recovery. Trying to just not drink didn't work. I had to change EVERYTHING and that include dating! I learned a lot about myself and part of that was I am co-dependent. I decided if I wanted to stay sober (and I do) that I had to stop looking for the man to 'fix' me. It was time to 'fix' myself.

It occured to me early on in the program if I was going to keep doing the same things over and over I might as well drink!

The suggestions are there for a reason. Others have tried it their way and they got drunk again.

Throw yourself into your recovery. Concentrate on you. Surround yourself with sober women for socialization.

I had no idea who I was and therefore had nothing to offer a man. How unfair to him!

Congrats on 74 days, but Hun, you have much to learn about you......concentrate on that......

(((hugs))) and prayers.

FindingFreedom · Senior Member

all i can say is that at 36 I pretty much did the same thing you are doing now, i rationalized that i was 36 and wanted romance in my life, i thought i could handle both romance and early soberity.

well, i couldn't, i didn't use for awhile but eventually i did slip and i lost myself in the relationship and i lost myself in the drugs. i know now that this happened to me because i didn't give myself enough time to get to know myself and what i want and don't want in my life.

I understand where you are coming from, it was hard for me to control my feelings. but what i thought was love turned out to simply be lust, because i was too young in soberity to be able to differentiate between the
two.

Please be careful here and consider, do I want to get sober and reap the rewards of that or am I willing to put soberity on the line? Just something to think about and it's up to you. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result???? HHHmmmmm??

-- Edited by FindingFreedom at 14:20, 2008-12-14

eastcoastscott · Senior Member

"Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. "

ditto!

It was suggested to me that I wait a year until getting into a relationship, to give me time to do the steps, which would prepare me to deal with life on life's terms. I'll admit, it wasn't easy but I did do it and it was worth it. I have heard this many times since and not sure where it came from actually.

Scott

lani · MIP Old Timer

My sponsor always says...."anything we put before sobriety, we will lose!"
You basically answered your own questions in your post....getting distracted checking people out.....Im curious who told you about it being ok to have sex but not with the same person twice!!!!! Dang...too bad Im married!!! lol That being said, I have been married 20 years and didnt have to worry about this relationship stuff in the same manner..I think it would be hard not to get involved with someone for a whole year. But it has been proven time and time again that the wait is well worth it! You get to know who you are and what you want in a healthy way. I would think you would have less chances of getting hurt because you are grown up enough to handle and know just what you want, or dont want!

Good luck to you and its always a topic you could bring up at a meeting or talk to your sponsor about.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Your sobriety is in it's relative infancy. Being in a relationship is one of the most challenging things that you can throw at your sobriety. Relationships are (imho) the cause for most relapses amongst AAs with 5 or more years sober. That should tell you something right there.

As I see it, we tend to make that other person our HP (you mentioned "dependent" this figures right in there). And this is prime time for you to be establishing a relationship with your higher power and yourself. Relationships are more than a distraction, they are a diversion.

Ask yourself what you really have to offer this person (emotionally)? And then ask yourself who is going to be atracted to you in your present state of
personal development. We have to become that heathy person whom we wish to attract. We don't just walk in the door of AA because we have only a little problem holding our booze. Think back to some of your past troubled relationships and ask yourself "how exactly have I changed since then?". Then read our deffinition of insanity again.

Now instead of trying to marry this person, why don't you invite them to be just friends and practice having platonic relationships. And yes I did that in my first 3 years (still doing as I'm married now

). It's actually pretty fun. The first woman that I did this with, when I had 6 months, had 5 years. I was the one that kept reminding her that I had less than 1 year and telling her all about the 13th step

This didn't keep us from having some interesting discussions on the phone.

.

Sobrietyspell · MIP Old Timer

Well folks, at 74 days I did go out on a date tonight despite it being told to me that I am not to enter into any dating or relationships for a year. It is something that sort of presented itself and the other person has like 5 really cool things in common with me. They hardly ever drink and are not into bars.

Well Done in your 74 days, Mark. A great start for your 90 days 1Day@aTime :) I heard & was told about staying out of relationships for a good two years & at least not making any major decisions during that time. I took this as pretty serious, truthful & good guidance though..

1. I was already in a relationship when I first came in so couldn't hold with that straight away. This relationship had alot of sick traits on both our parts & despite best intentions we both had to quit 4mths into Recovery to put it first because we kept getting distracted with our obsession for the other. While we're looking at & gaining some semblance of security from them we certainly are not looking at ourselves. For us, our history of resentment & damage was too mounted & breaking free was my first taste of coming to heal & getting to know me.

2. Ironically & typically with my alcoholic thinking I then managed to distract myself when I ignored this advice & took on a heavy job working in a women's refuge. I did this out of an egotistical desire to prove I could be successful. I had to stop & take a much less demanding job after 6mths as I was undergoing so much of a deconstruction of my own neurotic ways that the refuge was only slowing down my ability to concentrate on me. It's a miracle I managed to stay sober with the pressure & pain I was in & I'm glad I have put my program first since then as I now have some peace today.. over a year later!

*I'm sort of confused* and I know this is a time that I'm supposed to be building a foundation and working primarily on me.

*I felt this confusion comes from the conflict between your spiritual values of wanting to get well & independent & the current deep down compelling instinct to meld with & become one with someone who us being with distracts us from our own pain of being us thus giving us an illusional sense of control & security.

I also know I just ended a 7 year relationship less than 3 months ago. I know I have a history of leaping into relationships and being dependent.

Since the age of 19 I had a 3 year relationship then a 3 & a half year relationship then going onto having 6mth, 18mth, 3mth & 15mths with very few months single in between. Enough was enough. I finally got single at the age of 30 & was able, with thanks to this program, to stay single for 14mths. A world record for me lol I do feel now that the experience of having been single in sobriety has now set me in good stead to know that I would survive if my current relationship wasn't to work out I know I have that new skill to return to with less chance of me resorting to a drink in order to cope with that repeated exposure to possibly feeling alone & lonely again. Saying that, I know people can still feel alone within a relationship. It's still not always going to be an answer.

Part of me feels this is an opportunity to go about developing a potential relationship in a normal way rather than a drunken and clingy way.

I had to learn how to depend first & foremost on my own understanding & sense of my Higher Power. It is this that helps to protect me from drunken & clingy ways of how I functioned in relationships before. Whilst I was inside of a relationship it was near on impossible to develop this as I couldn't see the woods for the trees. I had to grow in this way on my own for some objectivity. Being in a relationship is itself the trigger for these drunken & clingy ways & I could be drunken & clingy even without a drink.

Most in AA would say I am walking on very thin ice with this. I keep trying to justify what I am doing. Part of me says it doesn't make sense to turn away a person I connect with really well just because I'm early in sobriety.

I had just under a year when I met my now boyfriend who came into the program & connected with me straight away. He made no secret of it but at the same time made no pursuit either. I basically ignored him because I knew we both had to get well. In time, it became a healthy risk for us to be together after 8mths of him attending practically 3 meetings a day, seeing & speaking to his Sponsor everyday, constantly reading the literature, watching Step dvds & listening to Joe & Charlie chats whilst all the while working each Step methodically & to the absolute best of his ability. I in no way had this kind of desperation or discipline having had a higher bottom but had a good handle on knowing how to stay sober & draw strength from appropriate sources like fellow women while learning more & more how to share honestly in the rooms & primarily ask my Higher Power for help.

Eventually I allowed myself the consideration of him having 18mths myself & getting to know him platonically within my newly won & practiced singledom. I'm sure more time single will have done me no harm but I was glad we waited as long as we did & all of that groundwork & effort I put into myself is still paying off in our relationship today. It's an amazing joy to have learned some sensible boundaries! I couldn't have & didn't have these before. I always became enmeshed with my boyfriends. This isn't happening today & because I put myself first. The year long rule is a great practicality as it helps us to learn how to safeguard our spirituality & sobriety.

I also figure I'm 36 and I want to live and have romance and sober fun while recovering.

Don't let any fear of loss push you into hasty decisions. There's no race here & there's plenty for you to discover & enjoy about yourself that doesn't mean you're going to be alone forever.

I have a new life, a new body (lost 50 pounds) and pure focus on self and AA can drive me a little too much into self analysis and constant thinking about my defects.....

These are new ways of thinking about ourselves. I have hated how much I've had to think about my defects & shortcomings. It was unbearable at times but that's what the rest of the Program is for. Once I truly realised, accepted & became willing to change, the pain has lessened & now all of this knowledge is useful to me as I now know how not to hurt others & how I can empower myself to change or accept what's going on around me or particularly my reaction to them.

I am still getting to know myself, but I also know that there are some healthy things I have to offer and I just enjoy being with this person so far.

Part of this Program involves surrendering everything about us Good & Bad in a faith that we'll be given back much better than we could have dreamed of for ourselves. This is true for me. It takes time & you have got so much to learn for & about yourself. You won't lose the best of you & will still be able to give this & better in the future. If he is genuine in his connection with you I don't see that he'll mind waiting while you concentrate on you.

I am determined to keep AA first as I know I have nothing without it and without being sober ~ Your Own Simple Truth.

It has been told to me that people dont expect me to be celibate for this entire year and a basic guideline was told to me that I could have sex, but not with the same person twice. This is a connundrum for me because I generally don't feel comfortable having one night stands with people I don't know that well (though I have done a couple of times over the past 74 days. In essence, I don't feel like being a slut is going to be good for my sobriety either.

I managed to stay celibate for about 4mths at a time. This seemed to be my pattern. My initial weakness was in seeking comfort with an ex who I've been friends with for years. We didn't push this too far because the physical act can lead to dependency by its very nature. My next vulnerability was taking in a guy who had nowhere to live & had been street homeless for several years. No prizes for guessing what happened next. Thought I was doing him a favour & it ended up dragging me down & driving me demented. I was in no fit state to help anyone, especially him! A few months later I had a one night stand with an ex work colleague which was an open & shut case but then I fell back in with that homeless guy again around Xmas 07. I set out for celibacy again into the New year & got as far as March when, after much persuasion, I had my last session with another member I don't see very often.

I'd love to say I managed to stay chaste for the whole time I was single but the fact that I couldn't spoke volumes to me of just how mad I was & unable to take good spiritual care of myself. I don't know how I'd be now but I really would love to think if it came to it I've learned a lot more about how my behaviours & impulses work & how to protect myself.. From ME! It was all these actions, feelings & behaviours away from a drink that helped me to realise that I was My Problem & that dealing with me & my emotions was alot more complicated than I'd previously thought. Hiding in drink for as long as I did meant I had a hell of a lot to learn about me. Staying single gives you a chance to see what damage is simmering below your surface & what your weaknesses are to straighten out before taking any further neurosis into your next relationship. I learned a lot about me & my patterns & defects learning too what I had to change & this all helped to bring me understanding & made me stronger.

Furthermore, as soon as I started feeling better I felt distracted by looking around the rooms at people who were attractive and thinking about them in ways that took away from my concentration at meetings.

I think this is a common occurance & distraction in meetings for newcomers & even single/partnered seasoned members but it's something we can simply deal with & let go of knowing it is our alcoholic heads doing its utmost to distract us into sick thinking again. We're flesh & blood & we have urges but while we're on a spiritual path our values become more important & you can take the power out of these distracting thoughts by speaking to your Sponsor & members you feel safe with & trust. It's one of many hurdles we overcome & continue to in efforts of putting our sobriety first. God's delays arn't God's denials.

Now this could all be a bunch of justification for me acting willful and being scared to be alone and just focusing on me...

Nonetheless, I feel like if I just pushed this away and said "I can't because I am in AA and too new to recovery" I would always be wondering what might have been. What do you guys think of this?

Live in Today, Mark & concentrate on you. What's yours will come to you when you're better placed to receive it. Keep on keeping on putting one foot in front of the other with patience & trust that your Higher Power knows what's best for you & has good things in store for you. I have done my best to learn from my own & other people's mistakes knowing that I am not special or different. Follow your heart, stay away from that first drink 1Day@aTime & you're continuously in with a chance. I love the saying & try to remember that if we keep doing what we've always done we'll keep getting what we always got. I know for me I had no idea how bad things were for me because I had no idea how good it could also get. I'm gaining that idea & experience now. If you trust & do as suggested you'll not be set on any bum steers :)

I would also like to add that I am gay and finding relationships is a bit more challenging, especially to find a person who is smart, handsome, and pretty much does not drink (a non-AA person that just is not an alcoholic).

Again, there's no rush & one alcoholic in this may prove too many! Plus, you don't know what underlying issues this person may have themselves. No one of us is perfect.

Any suggestions would be helpful from those of you with time. I'm pretty sure I will get the response that this is a bad thing for me to be engaging in, but I'm enjoying it (after 2 dates) and it doesn't feel wrong...It does feel scary with regard to the potential of me getting hurt. I'm praying to just let god guide me into the right decisions and I will need to be grateful for my life even if this doesn't work out.

I hope you don't mind I've shared as much as I have. I feel strongly to try & help you & give you some strength that staying single will do you the better good in the long run. I don't know what's best for anyone else & sometimes not even me but I can tell you what my experience has been & hope that you gain something of strength & hope from that to help you make your best decisions for yourself. Your Higher Power will look after you regardless of whether you ultimately have to go the long way round & suffer more pain to learn. The danger is of course that relapses aren't always easy to come back from & that thought keeps me sober too. I know it would get worse for me & I don't know how long or how low I would go.

These things always feel ok in the beginning because nothing's gone wrong yet & we haven't been bitten by any new mistakes but time itself will tell. It's up to you how you hear your God's Will for you. Good luck with your Sobriety, Mark. Mine is my most precious gift I can have before anything else. It's my own inner personal source of strength & inspiration though it's not possible I could have done any of this on my own. I am still very much in my beginnings too but having done as suggested to the best of my ability I can say that the Promises of the Program are coming true for me too :) In fellowship, Danielle x

KLT · Senior Member

Hi Mark.

I have been sober just over a year now and I know that for this alcoholic its still far too soon to be entering into a relationship.

I was 13 stepped when I had been sober just over a week by a guy who had 18 1/2 years sober and because I felt like a worthless piece of nothing, it made me feel really good.

He was really nice to me but it only took me 2 weeks to realise that this wasnt what I wanted and I ended it telling him that I was far too early in my sobriety to get involved with anyone. He turned quite horrible with me.

Ive since realised that who this man was in those couple of weeks is not who he really is and that even though he has 18 plus years sober, his recovery really isnt very good. Also he is a constant 13 stepper and prays on people new in recovery when they are still feeling very low and vulnerable.

If I had not got out of this relationship when I did I would probably have gotten my fingers badly burnt and it could have had a terrible effect on my sobriety. Thank God for helping me see the light.

Congratulations on 74 days sober and please be very very careful. Your sobriety MUST come first because without it you have nothing.

God bless.