My name is Bill aka forpetessake. Well...I am one of the newest members of the worlds largest organization that on one wanted to join. lol
At least that is what my sponser joked about last night. It is true though, isnt it?
None of us who are alcoholics ever had a desire to become one. Yet....here we are.
I have been going to meetings since 9/27/08. I decided today to join this forum, because I only have access to the net at work, and while my nights are ok with AA meetings, the days can be the danger times for me.
My work is ok with this btw....they dont mind forums. As a matter of fact, I have been a moderator at a board for fans of the band KISS, for quite some time now. As a matter of fact, that is where my user name came from. Peter Criss was my idol and hero back in the day.
My Higher Power, whom I choose to call God, is now becoming my hero. He and I, are working on that one.
Oh the stories I could tell....the pain I have endured over these past weeks. I suppose there will be time for that as we go forward.
But I think this is enough for a first post.
Like we say at the meetings, I am just glad to be here, and be here sober, and that's all I got. (for the moment)
Hey Bill Welcome to the board! Very cool that your work lets you blog ! We get canned for that!!!! Liked your intro and hope you stick around!
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
and welcome to the MIP AA Board. That's the best intro post I've seen in awhile and quite the enthusiasm for the program! Like you, I've spent a considerable amount of time on another board (a football fan board with 90k members) hence my avatar (diehard redskins fan) and found this cozy little board. I now have a bunch of AA sisters in here to appreciate while they tolerate me. Anyway, hang out and let us know how you're feeling and what you are Doing for your sobriety.
Well I have only been sober since 9/27/08. I did have a slip up, but I do not want this disease to destroy me. My life like so many others has become unmanagable. I have always had faith, but the funny is, that when I turned away from my faith, the bad things in life always found there way of sneaking back in.
To make a long story short, my wife of 20 years (today is our 20th anniversay) left me on 9/26. That night I contemplated suicide. That thought stuck with me from time to time for a couple of weeks after. That scares me ALOT.
I have been going to every meeting I can since. (Cant go on Friday nights due to my second job). I have been going to counseling as well. I detoxed on my own. Stupid. But I didnt know any better.
Bless my wife, she so tried to reach me. Over the past year she gave me so many warnings, asked for help, marriage counseling, everything. But I was incapable of understanding.
I now have a sponser. He is very wise and has been with the program in my community for 20 years at least.
I got the small copy of the big book on my first night. Last night, I picked up the hard cover 4th edition.
There was some concern early on that I wanted sobriety to try and get my family back. And I had to do some real soul searching on that. And while I do want my family back, and I do hope that even though she filed for divorce, we can work things out (what husband/father wouldnt)...I am more scared of this disease and what it can do to me. The suicidal thing, brought me to a point where I realized that if I am going to live, if I am going to be a father to my kids, then I need to get sober and stay that way for me.
It has been a terrible struggle, emotionally and with the disease, and I know my struggles are just starting. However...with the Grace of God, the guys down at the meetings, and hopefully you guys, I will be able to keep my sobriety, and live again.
Very great that you realize you have to do this for YOU!! Im sure you are worth it and will be so happy you found AA!! Keep up the great shares!!! Trust me, it does get soooo much better!
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"We tend to forget that happiness doesn't come as a result of getting something we don't have, but rather of recognizing and appreciating what we do have. "
I went through the exact same thing, with the separation and all, right at the beginning of my sobriety. I too thought that it was reconcilable and hoped for the best. I also had a 2 yo at that time. When it became apparent that the marriage was not going to survive, I had to redouble my efforts in the program and really shift the focus on me. The other driving force was that, now as a "single father" with joint custody, I had to drive my son around a dozen times a week, and I had to be sober for that and to be available for him. I had the wicked witch for a x-mother-in-law that would've wanted nothing better than to keep me from seeing my son. So she was just waiting for me to have a relapse to bring about some court action along those lines. I'm happy to report 19 years later that my son is 21 and in college, and I'm happily remarried for 12 years now (15year relationship) and life is Very Good! and mostly it's Excellent lol. So don't sweat the small stuff. It is what it is, life goes on, it is what you make it, there are no problems, only solutions, easy does it, and one day at a time. . And good luck with repairing the marriage. I just wanted you to know that it's far from the end of world if it doesn't work out.
Hello Bill, and welcome! I joined the program on 8/2/2008 - and have had two slips since - interesting time being a newcomer. But - putting myself into it - and seeing the changes daily.
And I finally know about the contemplations of ending your life. Well - for me it wasn't ending it - I wasn't ready to step in front of a bus - but I just didn't care enough to live. I always looked at that in others and just didn't understand. I have so much to live for and always get such a sick feeling in my stomach when imagining my daughter having to loose me. Last night I looked at her and thought "She is strong and wonderful - and she would be just fine. I am just too tired to care."
Not a good thing. Push harder on the program. Get back what I had in my heart 2 years ago - self love, respect, and gratitude for my life. Today is good, today I feel better - thanks to this board, my AA support, and my HP.
Thanks for the inspiration and I look forward to sharing this experience with you.
tlc
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__________________ "By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach." ~Winston Churchill
She left me a voicemail message a short time ago telling me that she is not interested in marriage counseling. She believes she is doing what is best for her and the kids. And she thinks what is best for us.
Here's the thing. She told me she still loved me on the 13th. She told me before that she loved me when I was sober. I have been sober since 09/27...and I know she knows that I am suffering from a disease. She's a nurse for crying out loud.
I just dont understand any of this. Guess I will have a lot to talk to my counselor and sponser tonight.
I feel like a complete failure. I think the only reasons I havent done myself in by now, has to be God. That...and hanging myself seems to creepy. Death is creepy. And of course my kids. I so miss them.
Yep...old Peter Criss found hiw way sober. Found a new wife and life too. Of course it helps to have moolah.
I was borderline. I had the plan down, I had the note written....I was good to go. And now....after this short time sober, my heart in like a million pieces and my brain going, WTF?.....I just feel numb. And that's not from the booze! lol
My alcoholism almost cost me my long-term relationship. My boyfriend had to move out to save himself. But, now we're working out a good way for us to get back together. I never thought it would happen.
But, for this alkie, I knew that nothing was going to get me to pick up a drink again or I was going to lose what little I had left.
Just hang in there and it will start to get better for you.
Please keep posting and letting us know how things are going for you, won't you? We're all here for you.
Take care,
Carol
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr. Seuss
So - I am an alcoholic - who just split from an alcoholic. Talk about craziness!
This is all very fresh for me and has been a horrible situation - but I can see her side and I can see yours. My soberA just walked away from me because I am an alcoholic. If he was a normie - I would totally get it. But - I put up with my his alcoholic behavior for the last 1.5 years and when I decided to loose my brains in early sobriety he walked. Ouch. So - when he comes at me with "Maybe after you have some sobriety under your belt we will see..." My thoughts are - not so much.
At the same time - I am finding - hour by hour - as I start to grasp on to saving MY LIFE - that I can't worry about that relationship right now. If I am focused on MY recovery - and becoming a healthy person - everything else will happen as it should. Does that mean she will come back? No predicting the future - but chances are higher if you have some time under your belt and peace in your heart. And one of the things I am learning in Al-Anon is you can't control the other person - just like I can't control my drinking. I have to detach and worry about myself. Hey - it is more attractive! And it is hard to do any of this if you are not around to try (boy it felt good to say that after my thoughts last night).
Good luck. Deep breaths. You are sober today. This too shall pass.
tlc
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__________________ "By swallowing evil words unsaid, no one has ever harmed his stomach." ~Winston Churchill
Yep...old Peter Criss found hiw way sober. Found a new wife and life too. Of course it helps to have moolah.
I was borderline. I had the plan down, I had the note written....I was good to go. And now....after this short time sober, my heart in like a million pieces and my brain going, WTF?.....I just feel numb. And that's not from the booze! lol
ACK!!! Any experience I ever had with MOOLAH... (like inheritances when I was younger...) went up in smoke! I will take my modest life and sobriety any day. :o)
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~Your Higher Power has not given you a longing to do that which you have no ability to do.
She left me a voicemail message a short time ago telling me that she is not interested in marriage counseling.
well then, it's time to start accepting that you have new life ahead of you. You should have plenty of time to get to meetings and make yourself a new family. We call it "our family of choice". Go to a meeting and share that your wife told you to hit the road and see what happens. Most of us, in here, have had a divorce, a bankruptcy (or equivilent), lost good jobs, lost homes, lost friends... You're not alone and you're not unique. It's certainly nothing to go out and hang yourslef about. I've seen people climb out of a dumpster, where they were living, get sober, get a degree in college, get into professional pratice, start a new family and come to meetings wearing 3 piece suits. Then they start sharing about barfing all over themselves and living in a dumpster behind a food store, and everyone's thinking "nooo way". Just look at yourself in the mirror and say "Get over it!" It gotta happen sooner or later, might as well be sooner. Think of all the suffering that you'll save .
Tell your X (<--you need to start calling her that) that you understand, and that you accept it's over and let's start making arrangements for visitation and child support. (you might want to find out if your state has a guideline for income vs. child support and agree to something close to what the law would require. Florida has a simple scale for this). It's way better to have an amiable agreement, then to get idiot attorneys involved.
This is the best course regardless because it allows your Wife to have her space. In that space she may change her mind, but under pressure it's probably not gonna happen. I went through the same stuff for a few months, then my father said something that I thought was profound- "Loneliness is better than misery". And then my mother said- "The best revenge is living well". <---I've turned that one into an artform, no a masterpiece.
I began to fill my schedule with activities with other sober people. Bike riding, bowling, movies, going out for coffee, breakfest (morning meetings are great) dinner...going to the gym. I embraced bachelorhood, I perfected it. Got a cat, a nice tv, rented movies, had my son over 3 times a week, we had a blast. I miss those days. I found that having my kid without my X-wife, was sweet! It was better than ever. We could do whatever we wanted without all that nag nag nagging in the backround. Example- pizza and ice cream for dinner? no problem. Stay up extra late and play video games? no problem. Sure I'd hear some static about it once in awhile and I'd just say "you gave being the boss of my house so just worry about your house".
I talked with an atty yesterday. One of the guys at the meeting recommended him. He gave me some cold hard facts. If I dont get an atty I am screwed. I cant afford an atty. Also.....child support here in Illinois is 28% of net pay. I wont be able to make my car payment...and I cant get a new car or refinanced as my credit score is around 300 and I am upside down on the loan.
So at some point here, I am going to become homeless. I am also going to loose any custody rights with my kids.
Not for nothing, but it really doesn't help you to assume what will happen when it hasn't happened yet. Like most of us drunks, you are reacting to a possible future, not the actual future. Only your HIgher Power knows what that is, so give it over to him/her.
Your good behavior now will go a long way in family court. Also, look for a civil legal aid group in your area. THey usually take a sliding scale fee. You really really have to live in today. Living in tomorrow is a sucker's bet.
Good luck.
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even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you --Psalm 139
So how can you afford and attorney then? I would try and negotiate directly with your X first. She'll have to pay attorney's fees as well so try and sell her on the benefit of working out the arrangements calmly between the two of you and get a separation agreement prepared. Recognize that she has every right to want to end the relationship, not because of you but just because we have the free choice to be, do, and go where we choose, whenever we choose.
I'd ask her to hold off on the divorce for 6-12 months, till you can get back on your feet physically and financially. How's the meetings going? You're number #1 priority has to be your sobriety. "Our primary purpose is to stay sober...". If you take care of that, all this other stuff will benefit from it. But if you allow yourself to feel sorry for yourself and drink (or not drink) it's going to be a hell of alot worse
How do you know that you'll lose custody rights? Most judges will award "Joint custody" with that mother (or father in some cases) getting "physical custody". Whats more important is your visitation rights. As long as you've got those, what's the difference other than being able to partisipate in decisions about schools ect... If your x makes sound decisions, then let it go. But like celtgirl said, presuming that you already know the outcome is just your disease kicking your @$$ now so that you'll drink or worse.
This might help you. You are not the voices in your head. You are the poor s.o.b. that, for now, chooses to listen to those voices. Your head is Not your friend right know. Even in 50/50% decisions you're likely to chose poorly 80% of the time. That's why it's important to seek the council of those experienced with what you're up against. When I went to men's meetings, in early sobriety, and brought up questions on how to handle (get through) a divorce, I got a ton of feedback, and what I've been saying is what I heard and it worked for me.
Now My wife and I didn't have a lot to fight over. We didn't own a house. I basically gave her every thing in the house and her car. I kept my 2 old cars and my motorcycles and the new tv that still had $800 owed on it. I paid $0 in attorneys fees. I got joint custody, and liberal visitation becasue I was calm, rational, and reasonable. In turn my x began to act the same way and neither of us showed up in court a year later, as our well thought out separation agreement became our divorce agreement.
Hang in there, it's only going to be as tough as you decide to make it.
I dont even know how to contact her. I would have to leave her messages at her work on her voicemail before she gets in to start her day. She doesnt even want to meet with me. If I talk to her attorney he is only going to tell her to go forward with the divorce. She doesnt want to have direct contact with me at the moment. Perhaps if I gave her another letter. But then, voicemails and letters could be perceived as harrassment.
The situation is worse than you originally explained if you two aren't even speaking. I guess all you can do is try to communicate that best that you can.
I did think just a moment ago of writing her a letter and leaving it in her car at her work.
Here's what I wrote and let me know what you guys think?
Well I got your voicemail message on 10/22. I thought it interesting that you referred to that day as I am aware it was our anniversary. As of this writing we may be separated but are still married, and that day indeed was for sure our anniversary. We are now into our 20th year.
Now, I know that you dont want the relationship back, and I am not going to ask you for that.
However.if you care for me, and you are worried about my well being, like you say that you are truly, then I have to ask you for this. The separation can be legal, the divorce will happen, but I am asking you to give me the time I need to get back on my feet, physically and financially.
The lawyers and the courts are going to ask for 30% of my pay for child support. There are documents that I have to go thru that I cant even begin to understand. So getting a lawyer and all that stuff is just something I cant do that right now with these payday loans and all the other. Also the added stress of a divorce at this moment is not going to help in my recovery. Keep in mind that there really is no rush for this divorce. This divorce will happen. However, I really could use the time to stabilize a bit. Perhaps 6-12 months.
Also it will benefit all parties if we could work some of this out ourselves. The time and money and lost work going to attorneys and courts will drain both of us. It is in our mutual benefit to negotiate directly. We can arrange visitations and all that stuff on our own. Or if you prefer we could meet at your attorneys office to work out those kind of details.
I dont even have any furniture. Lol
Seriously though, I really need the time to get back on my feet financially, and physically and mentally too.
I need to get new brakes on the car. Thats like 400.00. I havent even been able to pay the past due balance of 130.00 to get Mediacom back on.
Plus we have the holidays and the kids deserve as good a Christmas from both of us that we can provide.
Besides.its not going to hurt anything if the divorce is delayed. You will still get the divorce you want, but it will go easier on all parties involved if I can get that time I need. There is a lot of recovering from I need to get done. And I just dont have the time.
If you still love me in anyway.and for the benefits of the kids and us, please consider it.
Also when considering this, please keep in mind what will happen if you dont give me the time I need; Chances are less than great that I will be able to recover, physically, financially and emotionally and not the least of which is my sobriety, which is the most important part of my life right now. The kids deserve there dad to be stable in all those areas.
Dont be afraid to call me on the cell phone. I am not going to call you back or anything like that. I care too much for you to put you thru all of that.
Finally, I really do wish you would come and get the food that I have that I wont use. I have a full bottle of ketchup, and another ½ bottle of the stuff, I have tartar sauce, I have mayo, and yogurts and cereals.all those things that I wont use and will end up in the trash going bad at some point.
Dude, you need to go to CODA. There is so much co-dependent stuff in there I don't know where to start.
If you want to write her a letter, mail it. Leaving notes/letters on vehicles in seriously creepy behavior for a woman to endure. If you want to send her a letter asking her to slow down the process, do that. Ask her that only. Don't go into details about your specific financial problems, which are not her problem. Don't ask her to come get food, etc. Don't tell her it won't hurt anything to delay the divorce. Just ask her for the favor you are asking to get yourself financially ready for the situation and to give you more time in recovery. Nothing else.
Remember, your problems are not her problems. Hard to say, hard to hear, but that is how it is.
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even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you --Psalm 139
Give me a break.....I am just a baby at all this stuff. I dont even know what in the heck I am doing yet.
I did take your advise to heart tho and have corrected some errors. Here is the revised letter;
I am writing to you today to ask that you would consider delaying the divorce proceedings for approx. 6-12 months. I need this time to recover, physically, emotionally and financially and of course with my sobriety.
This would be best for all parties involved if I am able to be a better provider for all concerned.
Also it would be of a benefit for both of us, if we could work out some of the particulars on our own, such as visitation etc. The less we can get the attorneys involved, the less expensive this will for both of us. Not to mention the lost time from work we will both surely endure.
The separation is still of course happening and the divorce will happen as well, but I really need the time to recover enough to do this. There are many issues at play that will not be resolved if I am forced to go with these proceedings now and have to hire an attorney after all. One issue of grave concern is my ability to work will now be in some jeopardy, because of car repairs that need to get done.
This is not a ploy, or request to try and resolve the marriage. If that day ever comes, it will have to be a decision we would both desire.
This is rather a formal request, based on your statements of concern for my welfare that you have provided me with so far.
The situation is worse than you originally explained if you two aren't even speaking. I guess all you can do is try to communicate that best that you can.
I know.....she is following the advice of her attorney, I believe.
Hey, don't worry, how do you think I know all about CODA?
We're all messed up here or else we wouldn't be here, ya know?
That is much better, btw. Remember, anything you put in writing is going to her atty and the judge, so the more sober, honest and reserved you are the better.
Remember, just give it over to your higher power, nothing will help you more!
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even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you --Psalm 139
My two cents: don't tell her any set amount that you think the courts will make you pay. Leave that unannounced. It doesn't benefit you at all to volunteer that information, especially at the very beginning of a negotiation.
Be fair, be calm, be realistic. Don't leave stuff in her car- that can later be misconstrued as some sort of "stalking" stuff. Use conventional means of delivering correspondance. Send letters, keep copies. First send them unregistered so as to not aggravate the situation but if she doesn't respond send them return confirmation receipt so you have proof that you tried to settle up with her rationally and fairly and she just wouldn't respond.
Above all, write your letters and don't send them for a day or two- re read them and edit out anything aggravating or threatening.
Is there no free legal aid available in your area? I would highly recommend looking into that.
celtcgrrl wrote: If you want to write her a letter, mail it. Leaving notes/letters on vehicles in seriously creepy behavior for a woman to endure. If you want to send her a letter asking her to slow down the process, do that. Ask her that only. Don't go into details about your specific financial problems, which are not her problem. Don't ask her to come get food, etc. Don't tell her it won't hurt anything to delay the divorce. Just ask her for the favor you are asking to get yourself financially ready for the situation and to give you more time in recovery. Nothing else.
Remember, your problems are not her problems. Hard to say, hard to hear, but that is how it is.
Can we work on a separation agreement first, the divorce will <get> done?, but I am asking you to <allow> me the time I need to get back on my feet, physically and financially.
The lawyers and the courts are going to ask for 30% of my pay for child support. So getting a lawyer and all that stuff is just something <that's hard to do> right now with these payday loans and all the other expenses that I have. I really could use <some> time to stabilize a bit <before working on the divorce>. Perhaps <6-9> months. <Thanks in advance for your consideration>.
It will also benefit all parties if we could work some of this out <between> ourselves. The time and money and lost work going to attorneys and courts will drain both of us. It is in our mutual benefit to <discuss this over the phone>. We can arrange <child support and visitations> . Or if you prefer we could meet at your attorneys office to work out those kind of details.
Chances are <Good> that I will be able to recover, physically, financially and emotionally and not the least of which is my sobriety, which is the most important part of my life right now. The kids deserve there dad to be stable in all those areas.
<Please feel free> to call me on the cell phone. I'd like nothing more than to rationaly discuss the terms of a separation agreement with regards to child support and visitation.
Take care,
Here's some sample editing < >. Pretty much just took out the guilt trip stuff, a lot of the reiteration, and softened up the tone a bit. One suggestion, if she does decide to call you, to talk about this stuff, you'll need to keep it rational, and strickly business with no talk about getting back together of guilt trips. If not, you'll likely be speaking only with her attorney in the future, which she may decide for you to do regardless. But it's worth a shot. When my parents got divorced, my father dealt directly with my mother's attorney and I think that he came out way ahead. Of course my father was a very diplomatic and a good negotiator. It helped being a Navy Commander .
Good luck with it. It will happen the way that it's supposed to happen and you'll get through it, and someday look back and say, hey I did ok.
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