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firewoman122


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12 Steps....my opinion
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The 12 steps of AA


1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

1.  We admit we have given power to alcohol - that we have lost control of our lives.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

2.Came to believe that WE could restore our sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

3. Made a decision to take back our lives and accept responsibility for our actions.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

4. "ditto"

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

5. Admit to ourselves the nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

6. Were ready to remove the defects of our character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

7. Take responsibility for yourself.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

8. "ditto"

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

8. "ditto"

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

9. "ditto"

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

11. Meditate to get in touch with your inner conciousness.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

12. Having spiritually evolved as a person you can practice these principles in all affairs.

I disagree with the christianity aspect of the 12 step program. The mention of God is a sure fire turn off to those of us who are agnostic or of other religious denominations.
Second of all, it insinuates we are weak and shouldn't have to take responsibility for our actions. It's not our fault etc.
 The bottom line is alcohol doesn't pour itself into our mouths. We choose to pick up that bottle. It's not a disease and we do have control over it.



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Bryan39


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3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

3. Made a decision to take back our lives and accept responsibility for our actions.







I'd be careful of this one, you have to find something else to live for it doesn't have to be god but you do need a higher power another less religious way to put it is that you have to find something else to live for, skip this step and you put youirself in jeopardy

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Doll


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You are obviously aware THIS is an AA 12 Step website, so if you've been sober for 4 yrs and are OK with that, why come here to pick a fight?




In 1956, the American Medical Association (AMA) stated alcoholism was a disease, as it met the five criteria needed in order to be considered a disease: pattern of symptoms, chronic, progression, subject to relapse, and treatability.


The 'control' comes from being able to abstain from the FIRST drink, which we learn how to do by working and practicing the 12 Steps, as written by our Founding Fathers 70+ yrs ago.

Christian? I've read the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous a few times in the last few years, I must have missed that part. Hmmmmmm......However there is a whole chapter dedicated to the Agnostic.



http://www.recovery.org/aa/bigbook/ww/chapter_4.html

-- Edited by Doll at 15:32, 2008-08-09

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Tipsy McStagger


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AA is not a christian based program you ignorant boob...and have you ever considered that the issue you have with the spirituality aspects of the program have more to do with your narrow, small minded, limited understanding of what "spirituality" actually means.

The people who run this message board should really consider making new members pass an IQ test before being allowed to post.

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StPeteDean


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Doll wrote:

You are obviously aware THIS is an AA 12 Step website, so if you've been sober for 4 yrs and are OK with that, why come here to pick a fight?

at least she's consistent,  two threads containing two provacative statements (well in this case about 12 yawn ).

I agree with Doll,  If you did it all by yourself, why come in here and get holier than thou with us?  Isn't there a nice atheist  recovery message board you can join.  This is a spiritual program and a voluntary one, but re-writing the 12 steps is bit much dontcha think

 



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Sick of being sick


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My dear 'firewoman122',
It appears that you really don't need us or this board to stay sober, and don't feel that you need AA to stay sober.   You also demonstrate the common antagonistic, uninformed attitude of either someone who is actually not an alcoholic, or an alcoholic who cannot or will not accept this simple program (and therefore feels the need to attack it).  Since that is what you are saying to us, why are you wasting your obviously superior intellect to come here and argue with people who are only interested in trying to use AA and this board to stay sober?  Do you hate the world so much and think it is your "ordained" responsibility to set all these folks straight at the risk of jeopardizing their sobriety?   BTW, since you don't believe there is a god (Christian or otherwise), how is it that you feel "ordained"?

Now, let me 'qualify' myself.  I AM an AGNOSTIC.  I have been an agnostic throughout my years of involvement with AA and this board. 

In my opinion, there are two types of people who are the greatest poison to the human race:
religious zealots (of any religion) who think their god has chosen them as his/her/it's leading spokesperson; and athiests who think that there is no god, and, therefore, they are the only ones qualified to fill the vacancy. 

The purpose of AA and this board is SOLELY to encourage and help each other stay sober.  If any one wants to start spouting religious dogma, be it Christian, Muslim, Judaism, Buddhism, Agnosticism, Atheism (that's right sweetie, Athiesm is a religious CHOICE), etc., OR to try to turn it into a forum for their personal debate, I will be the first to BAN them from the site, and will ban them again if they show up under a different ISP, (and will ban them again and again and again, as much as is necessary).

Get my drift?

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cooncatbob


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-- Edited by cooncatbob at 23:04, 2008-08-09

-- Edited by cooncatbob at 23:08, 2008-08-09

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cooncatbob


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Tipsy McStagger wrote:

AA is not a christian based program you ignorant boob...and have you ever considered that the issue you have with the spirituality aspects of the program have more to do with your narrow, small minded, limited understanding of what "spirituality" actually means.

The people who run this message board should really consider making new members pass an IQ test before being allowed to post.


Actually Tipsy an oldtimer one said in a meeting you can be too smart for AA
but you can't be too dumb.weirdface

 



-- Edited by cooncatbob at 23:08, 2008-08-09

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tlcate


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Hello Fire,

Thank you for your opinion...  I am only sober 8 days but will share my experience, strength and hope around this subject.

I was raised as an atheist but I never formed a fact based opinion about any religious practices.  I have attended many different churches to find answers and support for these opinions that were my families, not my own, so I could feel I came to them of my own free will.  I did not want to form opinions of other's practices until I felt I had some knowledge to back it up.  I have spent 1.5 years studying with the witnesses.  After, I realized it was not for me, but at the time I did this I did not tell them they were wrong in any way - I just walked away and said "it wasn't for me".

I can tell you as a newly sober person seeking the assistance of the fellowship of AA, that I too have my own misgivings about things I am seeing for the first time.  But I am willing to find a sponsor, work the steps, and keep an open mind.  If I finish this process and find it isn't for me then so be it.  But I just don't see how moving from isolation and self-centeredness to working with a group of people who understand the horrors alcohol has brought to my life, offering service to others, and forgiving myself for my mistakes is going to be a bad thing.  And if I stay sober along the way - my primary goal of joining this fellowship as been reached.  The first thing that made this OK for me is the common statement "take what you need and leave the rest."

I hope you find what it is you are looking for as it strikes me that your presence here is for a reason.

tlc

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