Thanks, I kinda figured he's in denial. Funny thing is that the Chair Person blew it off and the person in question last words for me were "Kiss my
@$$" I got up and left but only to find another meeting...

When this happened at a IOP NA meeting the person was told under no circumstances to not wear anything like that again...

It'll take me a bit but I'll let it go....

Welcome to MIP, Jim. Nice work, Dean. All I'll add to this post is that it's principles before personalities & people will come in on all different levels. I've always appreciated acceptance in AA even when I'm struggling or not toeing the spiritual line so to speak. I'm my own worst judge & everyone else's tolerance teaches me to be responsible & learn to police myself! If he gets the message I'm sure he won't wear that stuff at meetings any more. Until then, if he's not disrupting the meeting as per Trad1 tis live & let live, init :) Thanks for bringing this to the board, Jim. Welcome back to your program! Goodluck 1Day@aTime ;) Keep coming back, Danielle x

When I got sober, I gave away my beer tee shirt collection, my beer glasses, my shot glasses and all my home brew. I sold my extensive collection of brewing book to the used book store.
I didn't go to bar and saw no reason to walk down the beer aisle at the super market.
I think the question you should have asked this gentleman was "How do you expect to stay sober when your wearing a hat that reminds you of drinking.
That reminds me of what often happens at a local NA meeting, right after they read the clarity statement someone will start talking about clean and sober.
It does show a certain lack of respect for the fellowship.
When I'm at a AA meeting I say I'm an Alcoholic and share about my problems with alcohol.
When I'm at a NA meeting I say I'm a Addict and talk about the disease of addiction.
Bob.

Thanks TKS for saying what I didn't know how to say. The last thing we want to hear, when we first walk through the doors of AA (or NA) is some criticism about anything. Our self esteem is so beat up, that we pretty much can't take one more shot at it. That's why the founders of our program made it so simple. Show up with a desire to stop drinking. Now I have seen some people come in drunk and start rambling, the leader of meeting asked them to just listen. Once that person continued, after several suggestions to listen, then they asked him to leave and come back when he wasn't drunk. That's a tough call, but probably the only time when someone should be called out.

One of the first meetings that I went to in '87 (besides the few I attended as a teenager) I asked a girl I knew, before the meeting, if there were any sodas or a machine and an old timer butted in and crankily said, "this is an AA meeting, we don't have no damned sodas here" and embarrassed the shit out of me. I left and went back to drinking for several months.

-- Edited by StPeteDean at 21:48, 2008-04-20

hope this helps....

I was told by my sponsor early in sobriety to place a hula-hoop on the ground and step inside. Anything inside the hula-hoop was my business, and anything outside it was not. That helped me a lot. I have to use my hula-hoop in my own house at times even, but it helps a lot with my serenity.

Joni

I don't want to muddy the waters by mixing issues here, but I think there's a big difference between telling a person you don't like their shirt, attacking drinking as an institution and trying to enact positive change as to how alcohol is portrayed in advertisements and what markets the alcohol cartel target. ;) I threw in that last on just because it's an idea that bounces around in the back of my head a lot.

No I don't think anyone should harass anyone about what they wear to meetings. It's hard enough for some people to get to meetings anyhow, and confrontation is the last thing anyone wants. I actually get a little peeved that my homegroup is so squeamish about profanity (it's in a church and that's the church's antiseptic, sanitary language rule) and that they say the lords prayer pretty much every meeting, which I find just a little offensive given that as far as I know there's supposed to be no particular faith endorsed by AA (but I just write it off as a nice bit of poetry and I'm cool with it- but I KNOW it turns some people off who aren't comfortable being coerced into a particular faith.) I've heard some guys from other groups refer to my home group as a little "suburban" and I think it's probably true- most of the bikers and roughnecks go to some of the morning meetings down at the beach.

I do think that despite what the big book says about attacking drinking as an institution, there is a lot of benefit that can come from some improvements and education within our culture as a whole. Especially more specific education within the schools about addiction that could benefit a ton of people in the long run. As it sits I think the kids get the basics in Health and Safety around fifth or sixth grade (unless things have changed since my daughter took H&S six years ago.)

Yeah- I try to take what I can from any given thing and benefit from it. I like the program and most of it works for most people, but some of it doesn't really work for me, and I kind of work around that rather than throw my hands in the air and say, "I give up" and start drinking again.

And while I do understand the intent of those passages and the idea that inclusion rather than alienation makes the whole thing work well- that doesn't change how I feel about American culture and the way alcohol abuse has become this cute cultural teenage rite of passage and adult alcoholism is generally accepted as "just one of those things".



I've actually done a lot of reading on the subjects of health care, substance abuse, prison statistics, etc and have particularly focused on how the various ills of our culture tend to intertwine. Our health care system would not be nearly the financial disaster that it is if alcohol and tobacco use in particular were approached a lot differently than they are today (pro-actively before the fact rather than after the fact like we do it today.) The information on genetics and addiction will someday be deciphered and maybe we'll be able to get to addictive personalities (and many other maladies) prior to there being a problem.

Another system that is affected by alcohol use is the prison system. There is an inordinate percentage of felonies and violent crimes committed that would not be had the person committing the crime not been drinking.

There. I rambled again. :)

I never could do the hoola hoop 

Well TLH. I've had the same thoughts abot a lot of what goes on in media, business, its political connections and the sorry state of our society as a whole compared to the wonders of Aa democracy, perfection and fresshly buffed halos. I've even drawn up ad campaigns and found cable TV people willing to support and promote agendas similar to what you speak.... I think.

But this always stopped me.

10. Alcoholics Anonymous has no opinion on outside issues; hence the A.A. name ought never be drawn into public controversy.

I thought for sure it applied to everyone but me since I was so knowledgable about the right ways to do things and since their are no rules or courts that can throw me out I was about to proceed. Many people find a crusade to latch onto instead of AA but I've found mine and it is AA.

I don't kknow how it happened but it dawned on me that that tradition should include me too.

There are plenty of organizations other than AA that can use a public relations specialist. AA is not one of them which leads me to a rather strange idea :)

What would happen if some one came in wearing a Ban Booze or MADD t-shirt? Would we let them wear THAT shirt?

oops, Lani just lit a match..........

just kidding

Now that I've thought a bit more, let me clarify: I'm not for prohibition, or even in most instances regulation (though I do think if a person has had a DUI they should have to blow to start their car and get a special license plate. In Hawaii we just got a three strikes law where if you get three DUIs they not only take your license but actually take your car. Radical stuff.) Anyhow- I lean towards education. I am for lots of effort being put towards proactive pursuit of reducing the amount of suffering that goes on in the world due to drug and alcohol abuse, and in that I think that education at an earlier age and a general shift of consciousness about the effects of alcohol on those prone to dependency and some red flags identifying an honest to god drinking problem. The whole DNA thing would be enormously beneficial. Think about it. If we could identify the drunk gene they could have taken me from the delivery room to an AA meeting and we'd have gotten that whole mess out of the way before I even knew what was happening.

I do think they should ban Hawaiian shirts. And crocs- they look like elf shoes. ;)

Someone speaking at a meeting (after having a small hitch taken care of) once said, "Glad to see someone has their stuff together. Must be the ala-teens."

How true. I just was writing in my little book today that it seems the longer you are off the tracks, the harder it is to get back near that place where you started (if you can get back at all). I equate a lot of substance abuse with war veterans and PTSD- nothing is quite the same when you come back from some situations.

Catching stuff way early probably produces some emotionally healthy and less vulnerable young adults.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

I think Dean has that same thong!!!!!!