Our AA literature tells us this is a spiritual program, not a religious program. That we are expected to develop faith in our Higher Power. But our imperfect founders persisted in using the monotheistic term "god" as if it's a synonym for Higher Power; and further referred to their god as male, as Christianity would have it.
We can go with the flow on this as they were bound by their 1930s white, educated, male, Christian culture. The deeper problem is that our founders' limited vision of generic spirituality has enabled AA to become a Christian program which tries to be tolerant of Christian-free members; many groups say Christian prayers.
Many people who want recovery avoid AA because of the male monotheistic language and Christian prayers. Christians, unintentionally, have changed the program's intent. This is a breach of AA integrity which merits sincere, open-minded Group Conscience meetings.
Nice. You dipped your toe in a pool that many do their best to avoid because they fear being labeled. Great topic that I'm inclined to agree with and hope to dive deeper should it get responses.
Thanks, Visionz. I don't seriously expect to change things much but it feels good to have a place to express myself, and to offer people the chance to consider a different perspective.
I'm sitting in my hotel in Georgetown Malaysia ..currently there is some guy somewhere doing prayer chants..Who cares...I don't.
I saw some Buddhist monk yesterday smoking a cigarette...Who cares I don't
I was in Bangkok in January a couple days before my 44th anniversary...Who cares I did...no one else could give Jack Thwoof...They glared at me.. I didn't have a halo or wing's..So why should anyone care.. I accepted anniversary time a long time ago,,, To thy own self be true
The Catholic Church's position on Alcoholism is "reluctant acceptance" at least in my observation of many years... Their position makes a lot of sense Why? Because we have a third step "God of our understanding"...THAT DOESN"T WASH TOO WELL WITH THEM...My point in all this stop trying to change or concern ONESELF about the spiritual well being of AA.. or others...Your job is only YOU Having an education which included 16 years of Catholic Education...I for many years consider myself a Western Buddhist..God is within me.. If anyone ever read Elaine Pagals ..The head of Religious studies at Princeton.. They would get a real Eye opener...Too many people have opinions of the way things should work in AA..That will drive them insane, or out the doors..until they learn the finer points of acceptance.. Worry about YOUR development only.. We give it away by example...not pontificating our philosophy the way things should be
Too many people have opinions of the way things should work in AA..That will drive them insane, or out the doors..until they learn the finer points of acceptance.. Worry about YOUR development only.. We give it away by example...not pontificating our philosophy the way things should be
Allow me to cut right to the bone here.
Liberalism has all but destroyed aa. Recovery rates then versus recovery rates now is not up for debate. Something went wrong.
It's more our culture , Tom Brokaws book The Greatest Generation, is a must read , as far as Christianity and higher power and male dominance of AA, I agree with Percival who cares , mind your own business , help others , and take from the program what best helps you.I do not know the numbers on the the success of AA then and now, but it seems to me if it is down it's more our culture not the program.
Well a lot of it has to do with everyone walks on eggshells this day in age. Even people who have time find themselves tip toeing around when it comes to sponsoring others. Afraid to hurt someone's precious wittle feelings by pulling their card and calling a spade a spade. This is probably due to mixing females into mens meetings in conjunction with our "always offended" current climate.
I have 35 years sober. I kept attending meetings wile my peers dropped out and got drunk. The key for me was to get past the profound changes in AA and just keep going to meetings.
When I came in the old-timers were sages and looked up to. Now they are hated. There is no respect whatsoever ever.
So I have learned to really tone down the length of my shares and pass a lot. They simply do not want to hear it.
But I go to a lot of meetings and get to see them relapse and come back in with arrows in their ass.
I have to tune out what the new people think of me in order to just keep going to meetings.
The newer generation is a very different breed of cat.
If you expect any the of respect at all in AA you are just setting yourself up for a justified resentment.
The current secretary will not even call on me or hold my hand in the prayer. Not sure what I did to piss her off. I have thought of trying to make amends but she seems so angry at me that I am hesitant to even approach her, lest she explode. Probably over something I shared in a meeting that ruffled her feathers.
There is another group down the road that I can shift too and problem solved. Moving around is key to keeping it fresh.
They complain a out old timers not coming to their meetings but when we become a fixture, they get mad at us.
Oh well. I came in during the golden years of AA (the eighties).
Some things(attitudes and perceptions) never change ... Bill and Dr. Bob experienced many of the very same problems ... Society has changed but 'The Solution' remains the same ...
Take Care and God Bless,
Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
The newer generation is a very different breed of cat.
A few of us slipped through the cracks and aa stuck, but I don't know if you consider a 40 year old part of the newer generation. Anyway great post thanks for sharing. It falls in line with what I have been saying here.
I want to take a stab in the dark and say what I think you meant by 'different breed of cat' really means these kids are not walking in because they have a drinking problem. I can ramble a million different reasons, but for the most part, they are in the right church but wrong pew.
