You know, ... It all boils down to choice ... Do I want/need help??? ... Do I feel that I have the power to control my drink'n??? ... Do I possess the power to stop what I know harms me and others??? ... Can I find a 'power greater than me' that I can place faith in??? ...
I don't bout anyone else, but I could not have made my 'life changes' without God as my higher power ... period ... He listened to my pleas and He answered by giving me the faith and courage to carry on ... to make the next right choice ...
Thanks, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I always find that an odd stance to take. The book is explicit in the purpose of the program, to enable one to find a power greater than ourselves which will solve our problems. That is the main point of the book.
I've read the book many many times, and I never got the impression that God was optional. Quite the opposite. Take all references to God out of the book and it becomes a pretty short read. All you're left with is instructions on doing an inventory and making amends.
That said, I've never met an alcoholic (myself included) that wasn't fiercely resistant to the idea at first.
I wouldn't argue the issue with someone set against it, but I wouldn't trade lives with them either lol.
-- Edited by jhamlett on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 12:19:53 AM
__________________
"God can move mountains but it helps to bring a shovel!"
This is a black and white issue to me.
Is the word God in the book?
Yes? Oh, how about shutting the fuck up?
Don't change wording to please a very very small group of atheists that run their own program and call it AA.
It seems to me that the title of the article (and this thread) is a bit inflammatory. It's 'click bait'.
Because nobody is trying to 'take God out of AA' or anything of the sort.
All that happened was a group of people with atheist views started a few meetings by and for people with such views.
These people are not trying to force AA as a whole to change anything in the Big Book or anything in the 12 steps or anything anywhere. They are only running their own autonomous meetings, as they choose to do so.
The issue is that the local office de-listed their meetings from the area meeting directory, and they wish to have their meetings listed along with the other meetings.
Reading the article, it occurs to me that one of the issues is that these groups object to the use of the Lord's Prayer in the meetings, and therefore chose not to do so in THEIR meetings. It's worth noting that saying this prayer is not a universal practice in AA. There are plenty of places in regular mainstream AA that do not use the Lord's Prayer. Some use the 'responsibility statement'. Some use a small quote from the book, etc. And this has not caused these groups to be de-listed from any directories, or started any controversy about whether these groups are 'real AA'.
-- Edited by Tanin on Tuesday 15th of November 2016 06:09:20 PM
.....yes, he's certainly free to do so on his own. Is he attempting to use the courts to 'force' this personal choice on all of AA, in all meetings and in AA literature?
Or are the atheist groups just asking to get their meetings re-listed?
In case there is any confusion, that is not what I was saying.
I was giving my impression of the title of the article in the link, I was not referring to anything Tanin was doing.
News articles on the internet quite often employ inflammatory headlines that may resort to giving misleading information in an attempt to get more readers.
If you play with a thing long enough, you will surely break it. --Anonymous
Some things shouldn't be played with. Our recovery program is one of these things. When we play with our program, we're taking a risk. We play with the program by missing meetings. Or by not calling our sponsors. Or by skipping the Steps we think are too hard.
It's okay to play. But it's not okay to play with our recovery program. When we play with our program, we risk our lives.
Prayer for the Day
Higher Power, help me know that I must work this program with care and respect.
Action for the Day
Today, I'll make two lists. On one list, I'll write ways I work on my program. On the other list, I'll write ways I play with my program. And I'll put my energy into working the program.
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
If you play with a thing long enough, you will surely break it. --Anonymous
Could have much fun with that... but not now.
On a more serious note there is a FlipSide to that coin.
Not long ago I was faced with a critical problem which scared me because my computer was not able to send/receive data from/to the Internet. I do my financial stuff on the net so this problem had to be fixed. It took two days of tinkering to trouble shoot the problem and do the repair.
On a side note, the name of the bone in a man's pecker is StarTech.
Interesting. Ten years in and I've become a committed atheist. My higher power is the fellowship of the people I meet in the rooms. My spiritual guidance is simple. If it feels uncomfortable then don't.
AA has enabled me to recover from a seemingly hopeless etc. That recovery is dependent on maintaining and improving a fit spiritual condition. How the bloody hell do I do that without a higher power?
The higher power for me is the power of example. The example, good and bad, of the people in the rooms.
I still chant the serenity prayer....without saying god unless I'm at the top table.
Does god need removing from AA and it's literature.....certainly not. If the bike isn't broke, don't fix it.
My missus is pagan. She follows a multi theist path. Does it bother me? Nope. That's her business. My best mate is a committed lifelong Christian. Don't bother me that's his path.
Hey, if reference to god in AA bothered me I'd leave and join SMART recovery (UK version of 12 step recovery without god or spirituality...around a 6 and a bit step recovery....looked at it and thought there were too many loopholes).
Yeah after ten years or so of searching, I've found what works for me. That's not important to you though. What's important is what works for YOU.
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
GOD IS GOD!!!
I don't give a rat's ass about anyone insinuating their belief/non-belief about this.
I know the God I believe in is a loving caring God.
That's it in a nutshell.
Do others have the right to believe in what they want to believe in? Sure they do! So do I!
I go by the HOLY BIBLE! It's been out there for centuries. Gotta be something to it.
Tried and true philosophy of life in which I design my life after......
I love it! Millions have done the same! People who have lived by it....died by it.
I'm OK with that and destined and if necessary--completely willing to do the same. Hey! Would I be willing to be nailed to a Cross to prove anything??? Nah! Doubt it! Got my mouth for that and it involves little pain except intermittent stings to my ego. Jesus Christ was willing to endure that pain, however. He is my major creditor---I owe EVERYTHING TO HIM!!!!
You want to be an atheist? Good for you. I don't care and I just think you haven't read/discovered/learned enough. I am a Christian....a believer that Jesus Christ lived and died on the Cross for my sins so that I may be forgiven for my own. That He rose from the dead so that I may be forgiven for my own sins....there were witnesses.....many many of the who saw it...and I have had numerous signs that I have felt that were from God that have proven my beliefs are seen and appreciated from the One most highly of all. Amen and praise all to Jesus Christ Lord and Savior!!!
Leave the rest....good for you pal. Whatever works for you.
I'm not trying to convert anyone, just stating my facts in relation to the post of removing God references. It's not necessary to remove them which I hope others who read my reply would recognise.
In the book there's a chapter to agnostics. No chapter to atheists.
I'm not an agnostic.
I don't believe in any god or gods. None of them 'speak to me. That's my business and my understanding....it doesn't need to be anyone else's.
Have a good life.
__________________
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
