Once upon a time, a woman moved to a cave in the mountains to study with a guru. She wanted, she said, to learn everything there was to know. The guru supplied her with stacks of books and left her alone so she could study. Every morning, the guru returned to the cave to monitor the woman's progress. In his hand, he carried a heavy wooden cane. Each morning, he asked her the same question: " Have you learned everything there is to know yet?" Each morning, her answer was the same. "No." she said, " I haven't." The guru would then strike her over the head with his cane.

rdy4change · Member

Struggling with self loathing

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

Welcome, rdy4. Glad to have you on board. It's common for the first 3 months to have some ups and downs.

Know that the downs will pass. The downs will suck, but they will pass.

Hang around here. Share some stuff.

Maybe try an online meeting:

aaonline.net

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Welcome rdy4, ...

Early sobriety is challenging for sure ... we all go through those highs 'n lows ... I got a good sponsor who explained to me during those low periods, to make a gratitude list, you know, think of all the things that are go'n right in my life ... starting off with be'n sober ... not only was I told, but I learned that drink'n only made my problems, many of them only 'perceived', WORSE ... so I've made it a habit to think of what I do have go'n and not dwell on the negative stuff ...

As far as your local groups go, if you don't believe in God 'per se' ... simply go along with your groups and pretend there is a God like your group thinks and that He's there with you too ... if you're feel'n like an 'outsider', I think that may just be your brain, or sub-conscience try'n to come up with an excuse to go back to drink'n ... which if you're here, you've already conceded to yourself you can't do this alone and need help, like the rest of us did at one time ...

Try to spend some time rereading the BB and maybe the 12 'n 12 too ... I picked up something new every time I read them, good stuff that I needed to hear ... It can't hurt noth'n ... and read'n is a good way to relax and put your mind in a good place ...

Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Oh, your post title reminded me of a Michael Jackson song that I loved when I came to AA ... called 'Man in the Mirror' ... at least I think that was the title ... check it out on 'youtube' ... it was about 'CHANGE'

Visionz · Senior Member

Sounds to me you are well on your way to a happy sobriety. When these things surface, that is a higher power cooking it out of you. I was what a shrink once called a "stuffer". Without aa's principles I was a black hole for emotions and they popped up in other areas without me knowing making me an ugly and unpredictable person to be around for years. Since you can recognize these feelings there is a better chance of experiencing the other side of them. I am not sure what to suggest because it is hard to tell from your post if you are sitting on a drink or just looking for emotional relief.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

I have felt that way too. It is very possible to lead a fulfilling and meaningful life guided by principles in all affairs minus the religion
I can attest to that by my own current experience. Best wishes.

MarcLacroix · Senior Member

rdy4change wrote:
Hi.
I have been in the program for years but had a major setback a few months ago. This morning I woke with with such an overwhelming sense of disgust within myself. I have 74 days behind me and feel confused as to why I am feeling so low today.

I am open to suggestions.

Hello;

My name is Marc and I am an Alcoholic.
Ok, So you have relapsed and you feel bummed. There are others like you. In fact, there are many.
Sometimes at the beginning of a meeting the chairperson will ask for those people with 90 days or less to raise their hand.

Take a look around when this happens.
'AA' and other FellowShips are sorta' like a revolving door with people going in and out for all sorts of reasons and 90 days or less seems to be where the herd is. Congratulations!, You're in the herd. :)

*** Begin Riding the Kracken ***

I think of the Kracken as a gut wrenching cookie tossing roller coaster. Most decent amusement parks have one. As Newcomers arrive in AA they detox from the alcohol abuse and their body adjusts but the mind can sometimes play tricks on the unsuspecting. Old buried hurts begin to resurface and cause much fear and confusion. It did happen to me at about six months sober and almost sent me back to the bottle.

My most serious difficulty was with layer upon layer of rage which had accumulated over my unhappy shame and guilt ridden adolescence. As I peeled back the layers all those old hurts resurfaced. Not knowing what was happening drove me to tears on more than one occasion. What the heck is happening to me I thought. I must be losing it and so on. So I attended a meeting each day and read the Big Book in earnest to find an explanation.
'Big Boys don't cry' was also a source of grief

*** End Riding the Kracken ***

I recommend you 'Get It On' with Step Four Pronto. Dig up the old shit and get rid of it cuz if you don't you'll end up drunk again.

Ok Hamburger, consider yourself Marked. :)

Marc

jhamlett · Veteran Member

Hi rdy4change,

If I read your post right, you're feeling bummed at having 74days sober instead of the years you had sober, is that right? Also some discomfort in the meetings because of the idea of God there?

I'm just making a guess from a distance, but maybe the two are related? After all, the Big Books "main object is to enable you to find a power greater than yourself which will solve your problem". That's the point of the book, of the meetings and the steps.

I can say from my personal experience that I was very resistant to the idea of a power greater than myself that was personally interested in me. Just disgusted with the entire notion. I stayed that way from my first 10 years sober and it was a painful 10 years too, lol.

Quite a few of us started out in that boat. If it wasn't for the fact that we are faced with alcoholic insanity and death, I certainly wouldn't have had the motivation to open my mind some.

Just a thought.

BB Pattie · Member

Welcome back rdy4change

As it has been stated more than once...early sobriety is rough. I too (as many do) had a really hard time with the god stuff, but I wanted to stay sober more than I cared what anyone thought of my belief system. The " We agnostics" chapter in my big book was worn out first, trying to understand how this whole thing worked. What I found is that there are many forms of belief and so I found what worked for me.

MarcLacroix wrote:

*** Begin Riding the Kracken ***

I think of the Kracken as a gut wrenching cookie tossing roller coaster. Most decent amusement parks have one. As Newcomers arrive in AA they detox from the alcohol abuse and their body adjusts but the mind can sometimes play tricks on the unsuspecting. Old buried hurts begin to resurface and cause much fear and confusion. It did happen to me at about six months sober and almost sent me back to the bottle.

My most serious difficulty was with layer upon layer of rage which had accumulated over my unhappy shame and guilt ridden adolescence. As I peeled back the layers all those old hurts resurfaced. Not knowing what was happening drove me to tears on more than one occasion. What the heck is happening to me I thought. I must be losing it and so on. So I attended a meeting each day and read the Big Book in earnest to find an explanation.

*** End Riding the Kracken ***

Love the Kraken reference!

I rode the Kraken every day of my miserable existence before working the program and although many years have passed since I worked my first 4th step I will never forget being frozen in terror from the things that had been reviled. What I have found is that these memories still crop up...yet they hold no power over me...unless I let them.
Please keep coming back and allow these miracles to work for you!

JerryF · Senior Member

I use to listen to the "oh Shit" stories from those who relapsed after periods however long in recovery. I was stunned at the power of our disease as it re-entered our lives and I was even more stunned at the numbers of lives it took as it returned until I did my homework on the chemical's affect on my mind, body, spirit and emotions. I've never relapsed and I have heard your story more often that I can count. I have sponsored relapse members also and found gold with everyone who could remember how the program worked before they went back out. It worked then and they went back out and took it with them which often explained the anxiety and depression which came after. Its not a sin and a disease and illness which is and will be always with us. Have I ever relapsed? not entirely I have come very close to the drinking part which left me with the emotional, mental and spiritual fear and pain and the solution was more literature, more sponsor and more meetings.

Ours is a fatal disease if allowed to run unchecked. Bravo for the check you put on it this time!! "Abandon yourself to God as YOU understand God" was the instruction I receive at the tables of recovery and my God is an ancient Father/Creator from within the culture I was born along side. I replaced the God of my up bringing with all of the education and experiences I participated in. Our program is a spiritual program and today my Higher Power lives within that.

Be grateful and faithful to your recovery before that last drink and continue to practice open mindedly. Keep coming back ((((hugs)))) smile

rdy4change · Member

Thank you, it makes sense

Baba Louie · Senior Member

It seems, like a few others here have said, that yer bummed out about the relapse.

there are so many ways to look at it, but, obviously, looking at it in some kind of positive way is going to do you best.

first of all, it ain't the end of the world. the good thing is, look at all that sober time you had in your life. I'm not gonna get a calculator out right now, and I don't know how long you were sober before you tripped up, but, if you do the percentages, you'll probably find that in the past 5 years, you've spent 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of your time sober. That means, you only spent .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of your time drunk.

id say that is pretty damned good.

nobody is perfect.

Baba Louie · Senior Member

Don't let that minuscule number, .000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001, get you down.

instead, let that huge number, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999, bring you up.

i know, you'd probably give anything, to take that little #1 at the end of the first number, and move it down to the beginning of the second number. But you can't.

No big deal. Don't let it become one.

also, maybe you should talk to some old timer at a meeting, who has been through it. They might be able to suggest better how to overcome the mental letdown of a trip-up slip-up.

MollyMunch · Member

Hi Ready4

I drank again after 13years sobriety - no tragedy or great upheaval in my life - I just started using excuses not to do things & eventually "stopped doing the doing" ie what had kept me sober for over a decade. I was on a dry-drunk for about 18months before I actually drank again & it was one of the loneliest, scariest, worst times of my life. This disease is truly CUNNING, BAFFLING, POWERFUL & oh so PATIENT. I stayed drunk for the next 2years after I picked up, all the while knowing where the answer was and how I could end the pain, but my pride kept me out there. How could I go back and tell them I, of all people, had drank again ? (pride, ego !) In my heart of hearts I knew what I needed to do & had I not always said to others that they'd be welcomed back with open arms as they had a very strong message to carry ? I had to hit rock bottom again but when I did & cried out for help having become sick & tired of being sick & tired again, the hand of AA was there to pull me back in the boat again. I found out in a very painful (& what could've been a lethal) way what people in AA meant when they said pride can kill you.

My sponsor (who, bless her stuck by me throughout) said I had a very powerful message to carry when I got back - what happens when you slacken up on meetings, stop working the steps, stop sharing with others, stop carrying the message to others & stop relying on a Higher Power (who I choose to call God, but that's neither here nor there) to keep you away from that first drink one day at a time. Of course I was welcomed back as I had welcomed others back, with open arms, by folk who told me they needed to hear what I had to say - basically that it gets WORSE, a whole lot WORSE.

You are not required or obliged to believe in the same God that others believe in, you don't have to call him God. Just ask something you believe is more powerful than yourself to help keep you sober each day & thank him/her/it each night - simple. Find a group where you feel comfortable, find a sponsor & start working the steps. No one has a right to judge you Ready4 (if they do they're probably on much thinner ice than they realise) Hold your head high & get down to work !!! YOU KNOW it works if you work it, so work it - you're worth it !!

Love, peace & serenity xxx

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Great message there MollyM ... ... ... very powerful ... thanks for share'n ...

Pappy

MollyMunch · Member

Thank you Pappy,
I know I'm in a minority - unfortunately, most people DON'T get back to AA after a relapse. In 20years I've been to plenty of AA funerals to realise that. The door to AA is ALWAYS open, but sadly not everyone makes it back to the door.
This disease is waiting for me, it wants me dead but wants me to suffer first - all I have to do is stop working any part of my programme & it'll be in at the first chance.
Thankfully, something far more powerful than this illness wants me to stay sober - the God of my understanding. And it really does work in all circumstances.

I recently lost my oldest & dearest friend in the Fellowship. We'd been best buddies for over 20years & he died suddenly a month ago. He was 26years sober & was out carrying this message the day before he died. My heart is absolutely broken & there's a big hole in my life but I can honestly say the thought of a drink has never entered my mind. Bob will always be missed - he helped countless people during his 26years. It's really tough as we used to talk a couple of times a day but the Fellowship of AA has wrapped it's loving, caring arms around me - I feel at peace, & I KNOW without a doubt I'll get through it, one day at a time.

Love, peace & serenity xxx

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Sorry to hear of your recent loss Molly, ... I'm a few years in the program now and have come to know this type loss too ... It is painful for a while until we slowly realize that those who stayed sober up to the end, are in a far better place now ... it's a big comfort to know that ... and for some, their memory keeps on teach'n the new-comers as we share the thoughts of our old friends ...

And I meant to have commented on your 'pride' comment from your earlier post ... 'Pride' nearly killed me ... I relapsed a few times before stick'n around ... and it was Pride that made it nearly impossible for me to walk back through those doors ... AND yes, I also have lost some very dear friends that 'pride' kept them from coming back ... and if there are those here that have a hard time understand'n this, they should check out what the Big BB says about 'Pride' ...

Love ya and Take Care,

Pappy

JerryF · Senior Member

Ready one other thing that might help a bit with the self judgement helped me to understand when I first got near to recovery...."this is not a moral issue...it a disease and if not arrested by total abstinence a fatal one". I was very fortunate in my resistance to recovery because I learned that I didn't know and didn't ever know that I didn't know that I had a fatal disease. I got close to the program because my then wife was an alcoholic/addict and I didn't even know what an alcoholic was. She chased my drinking so I was missing a huge clue and then first I also had to learn how to say the word before coming to understand that I was born and raised in the disease. Dumb as a stick I learned to describe my condition a bit later on. Stop beating yourself up, the disease will have less to do. confuse

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

You remind me of myself. Although, I do believe in God and cannot relate to that specific area, I will say that I have had similar feelings of being "marked" at times throughout my life when I have had opposing views than others.
I finally realized that unless someone specifically told me this is so, than it is all in my mind. My own paranoia--perhaps guilt, maybe self-consciousness-- of being different than others. And even so--if someone tells me I do, I have the right to choose my own way of thinking. I don't have to think a certain way to please others. I am finally learning that it is alright to be different, unique than others. It is okay not to fit in the same mold as everyone else and perhaps it makes life on this earth a bit more interesting not to be like what we think everyone else is like
on this planet.
Embrace and learn to love yourself for who you are and your own uniqueness.
Congratulations to you on your sobriety time.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Good to see you post'n again LTR ...

Pappy

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

There is no wrong in voicing our opinion. We have to be true to ourself. We may from time to time receive feedback--sometimes hostile and malevolent in its delivery---and it is important to realize that if and when that happens, it does not diminish the value of the original meaning and intention of our own words.

I know that now....thanks, Pappy.

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

leavetherest wrote:
There is no wrong in voicing our opinion. We have to be true to ourself. We may from time to time receive feedback--sometimes hostile and malevolent in its delivery---and it is important to realize that if and when that happens, it does not diminish the value of the original meaning and intention of our own words.

I know that now....

Heya, LTR. I see that you are back to posting again. And in your inimitable style, of course.

Hope things are going well for you. It was a bit worrisome when you left in a huff. Well, maybe it was a minute and a huff.

Just remember-- go to meetings, work the Steps you can, and do not drink, one day at a time. Keep it simple.

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

"Inimitable style"....hmmmm......I could say the same about you, Mr. Tanin. (Or Ms. Tanin......I don't know if I or anyone on this knows that about you.)

I admit I am transparent in that what I think is often what I say. My (perhaps..) quirk, I know. I have yet to hear you admit any shortcoming(s) you possess. Not that it is necessary in this program of recovery; however, I do feel that one who preaches "complete honesty" should practice to adhere to the same guideline.

"left in a huff"...I never "left". I have been to this board every day, several times a day. I have been trying to learn more about this disease, as well as myself. I have been trying to learn why I ALLOW (In caps to emphasize my frustration at myself, and not meant to "yell") people who I really know very little about, and people who probably know more about me than I do them, although only know certain parts of what I am about....why I allow them to have any influence on me at all. I am still trying to learn that one. And yes, I was in a "huff". I feel I had a reason to be. ("huff--a fit of petty annoyance"). I agree it was "petty" and it was an "annoyance". A HUGE annoyance. And truth be known, I am not the only one who had to take a break from this board because of ...well....that reason. Some of them no longer post here anymore. I do keep in touch with a couple of them and I have been told that I am not alone.

I like this board. There are several people on this board...like Pappy, Chris, Dave, and others who have really helped me. I have been through relapsing--as is clear--and feel, although I didn't stick to the program and what I learned--that I can offer--if even in a small way--some kind of support for those who have been through what I have. I hope that I do not sound like a hypocrite in my doing so.

You have helped me in some ways, Tanin. I do feel like there have been times when I have been "singled out" so many times, questioned to try and "catch me" in my own thoughts and words. I do know that many times past postings of mine have been re-posted in an attempt to do these things and call to my attention (as well as others--as this is a public board--that I either contradicted myself and/or changed my wording). I think you full well know more than anyone, that I chose not to delete any past postings, not to change my ID this time (out of embarrassment, as I have done in the past) so at least you would not bring my doing those things up. In other words, I chose not to give you any more ammunition to use against me.

Please keep in mind that although I may sound "upset", "worked up", and perhaps "impatient" with you, Mr. Tanin, ("Mr." said out of respect for you as an individual who deserves my respect as well as empathy, I really appreciate your concern.

So...going back to the "inimitable style" comment you made above...I can choose to take that as a compliment, an insult, or just an innocent observation. I will choose the last of those. Besides, who would want to copy me...a chronic relapser who is just trying to hang on by a thread, does not trust anyone--most of all myself-- right now and uses this board as a method to prevent that thin thread from breaking which can result in me from dropping lower than I have already been. I just had an extremely horrific week. One where I thought, as well as another person, that I may not make it. I'm back......again. All I can do is try....again.

Good day to you, Tanin.

chris · Senior Member

Hi LTR, glad to see you posting. Nothing wrong with having a unique style :)

Tanin · MIP Old Timer

leavetherest wrote:
I have been trying to learn more about this disease, as well as myself. I have been trying to learn why I ALLOW (In caps to emphasize my frustration at myself, and not meant to "yell") people who I really know very little about, and people who probably know more about me than I do them, although only know certain parts of what I am about....why I allow them to have any influence on me at all. I am still trying to learn that one.

Once upon a time, a woman moved to a cave in the mountains to study with a guru. She wanted, she said, to learn everything there was to know. The guru supplied her with stacks of books and left her alone so she could study. Every morning, the guru returned to the cave to monitor the woman's progress. In his hand, he carried a heavy wooden cane. Each morning, he asked her the same question: " Have you learned everything there is to know yet?" Each morning, her answer was the same. "No." she said, " I haven't." The guru would then strike her over the head with his cane.

This scenario repeated itself for months. One day the guru entered the cave, asked the same question, heard the same answer, and raised his cane to hit her in the same way, but the woman grabbed the cane from the guru, stopping his assault in midair.

Relieved to end the daily batterings but fearing reprisal, the woman looked up at the guru. To her surprise, the guru smiled. " Congratulations." he said, " you have graduated ". You know now everything you need to know."

" How's that"? the woman asked.

" You have learned that you will never learn everything there is to know," he replied. " And you have learned how to stop the pain".

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

I don't know where you came up with that Pickle, but I LIKE IT ... and thanks ...

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

It was a great story despite the violence--which this world certainly has way too much of already. I know I will never learn everything there is to know. It is when I think I know everything that I will be in more trouble than ever. If that ever happens I feel I will be prone to spending my time telling everyone else how to do things rather than working on my own CD's. :)

(Thanks, Chris. I appreciate your kind words.)

dawn99 · Newbie

It will always be hard at first.I struggled with alcoholism and depression for years now and I know how hard it can be to feel the way you feel right now.Seek help from this forum as much as you can and read inspirational blogs or books whenever you are free.It really helps.I love cars and I always go for a long ride whenever I feel discouraged.I will be going on a vacation soon just to freshen up my mind and I have already stored my car in a nearby car storage unit . Take a break whenever you have to and freshen up your mind.You will feel a lot better.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Welcome to MIP dawn99 ... glad you found us ...

Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy