From my experience, the third paragraph from the end of the article contains a pretty good answer to the question posed in the title (although of course it is a generalization):
"The first step of AA (admitting there is a problem and drinking isn't an option any longer) is enough to keep one sober; it is the other steps that lead to happiness without the substances. Many people in 12-step programs don't practice the rest of the steps. They do not work hard at changing their attitudes, beliefs, and behavior."
Some people also have dual diagnoses. they may have anxiety or depression or be bipolar or something. Giving up booze doesn't really cure those things. It DOES, however, keep you out of an early grave because of alcoholism, which is a really big thing. Being sober may not have made my life perfect, but it's made me able to tolerate much bigger problems for much longer without going nuts or retorting to violence or something.
__________________
Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and unto God that which is God's.
What is "dramatic" about that article? I didn't write it. I thought it was a great article and I learned from it. Were you doing that "spot it you got it thing"? I said I don't really believe in that, Marc.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Tuesday 16th of August 2016 05:01:58 AM
"I tell clients in addiction treatment: The first step of AA (admitting there is a problem and drinking isn't an option any longer) is enough to keep one sober; it is the other steps that lead to happiness without the substances"
This one sentence discredits anything this guy has to say about AA and is doing a great disservice at the same time. He's giving entirely too much credence to the admitting part. What about the chronic relapsers who make it to a different step each relapse? That person must of admitted it 22 times, why wasn't it "enough to keep one sober" as this buffoon author implies? It is because step 1 is about powerlessness, unmanageability and surrender. When I landed in AA because there was nothing left of me and I had that tail-between-my-legs look totally beat into submission by the bottle, step 1 was done without me saying a word. This is actually a great reminder to never ever let someone who has not thoroughly followed our path tell us anything about what our literature implies. Oh you are not an alcoholic and never tried AA and want to tell me about step work?
Shut
Up
-- Edited by Visionz on Saturday 20th of August 2016 11:34:53 PM
I found the article very helpful to me. I couldn't figure out why so many of the oldtimers in the meetings seem to be miserable. And one of them even told me that he didn't believe in a Higher Power, all the "spiritual awakening" stuff. I had a hard time wrapping my head around how on earth this person had managed to have multiple decades of sobriety time without experiencing a spiritual awakening. And another person was griping to me because she said the Big Book needed to be edited because it was "outdated" and all the "God" and "Higher Power" references needed to be removed. This person had also managed to stay sober for years. I started to question things which I felt had kept me sober for over 2 years (not a long time to some--however an extremely long time for me!) After all----these people had managed to get and remain sober longer than me.
And I am glad that Step 1 was "done" without you "saying a word". Sounds like you are not among the "chronic relapsers" like I am. I interpret the author to mean that if one truly believes in Step 1 and takes it seriously enough it can and will be enough to keep one sober. I obviously did not take Step One seriously enough. And the author goes on to say that I must work the Steps on a continual --not occasional--basis in order to be happy instead of miserable.
And I may have to say the First Step 100 or more times before I'm done....maybe a 1,000. I have thought I was "done" multiple times in the past---I was not. I thought I was powerful and in control when I made the decision to drink again. I "forgot" about my problem and thought I had an option to drink again and again and again, etc. So, at least for me, everyday I "work" Step One because if I forget for even one day that I powerless over alcohol--that can kill me. And God help me if I forget it again.
My alcoholism isn't what caused my character defects. In some cases, drinking 'enhanced' or magnified those defects or in some cases habits or behaviors, but did not cause them. I'm learning to turn my defects and behaviors over to my HP for him to remove them. My role is to let them go. Talking about the 12 steps with a few trusted friends and working them in my daily life is how I am letting go of those old things that are blocking me from being happy and being of service. Am I still an A**hole from time to time? More than I want to be, but I'm aware of it almost immediately and set about making things right as I become aware.
At over 10 months sober, I am now trying to get off of nicotine. This part of my journey finds me being irrational and grumpy much more than I normally am, but it seems like the work I've put into the 12 steps has me much more aware of what is happening in my heart and mind and I am able to nip that grouch a little easier.
"everyday I "work" Step One because if I forget for even one day that I powerless over alcohol--that can kill me"
I am very happy you found a way that helps you stay sober. I sincerely hope it helps you have a bright happy life.
However, no where in our literature does it say we need to "work" step 1 every single day. In fact, it says quite the opposite. [And I have to say that in case some newcomer is reading your post and thinks it's the aa way].
I experienced exactly what it says on pages 84-85 of the big book, which is:
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us.
If you have been fearless and thorough up to step 10 and the above passage was not a reality for you, my suggestion is you start over.
I am glad that you pointed out that it is not in the BB. In fact, so much of what I am doing to stay sober now is not in the BB. With AA, I did have to literally..."take what I want, and leave the rest".And that is all I will and am going to say about that for now because I really have no desire to defend myself and my personal decisions. I am doing what is right for me. I'm sober and I'm happy today and most importantly I have no desire to drink.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Sunday 21st of August 2016 11:32:23 AM
In that case, I apologize. I had no way of knowing that you run your own program being that I am a new member to this board. I will be more considerate that this may be a possibility with other members here as well. Thank you for opening my mind a little more.
LOLOL! That "running your own program" is a common phrase in AA.
Whatever. Regardless of if meant as sarcasm or sincere, an apology is not needed. And by the way, Visionz, I don't run my own program--God does. He is my Higher Power, and I pray to Him many times throughout the day for His will in my life. He is directing me and I am happier than I have been in well over a year. I am more at peace than I used to be. I got this high and almighty as well as judgemental attitude and thinking when others didn't do everything by the BB, like so many AA folks do. I questioned their progress, their success--I even questioned whether they were actually staying sober. I have learned and am still learning more by having faith and believing in God and letting him guide me on my sober path now. If that bothers anyone on this board or elsewhere, I really cannot help that. And if anyone wants to be judgemental of me, that's okay....just another reminder of some of the "rest" I can choose to "leave".
I'm right there with you LTR. I do whatever works.
Since this post is quoting the Big Book, here's one we used to close meetings with back in my early days. It's found at the end of "A Vision For You":
"This book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us..."
Funny how Big Book thumpers miss this passage. The rest of that paragraph and next summarize the program perfectly IMHO.
As for our fellow "miserable" members, I don't know. I don't hang out with them much. I was told early on to stick with the people who had what I wanted, and the miserable people never fell into that category for me.
__________________
"God can move mountains but it helps to bring a shovel!"
Wondering why this is an Alcoholics Anonymous message board but my impression so far is anything but. Beat up on the big book thumpers, create your own recovery program and take advice about step work from someone who is not an alcoholic is the message I am permanently leaving this place with. A better title for this board should be Random Thoughts or Misc. Recovery.
Pappy, thanks for the warm welcome but I will be taking my big book thumping ass elsewhere now. Be well.
Hi jhamlett.....
I lost most all the "friends" I had in the meetings when I relapsed. No love lost. It was all a meant to be for me. Only hope that they all are part of the 2% (or whatever it is) a year, 5 years and more from now that is still sober. I wish no ill will on any alcoholic no matter how miserable and hypocritical some of them are where ever they are.
One of my favorite meetings I attended took out The Lord's Prayer because it was too "Christian" and would offend non-Christians. What's next? Remove the Serenity Prayer and other prayers in the meetings??? I loved the prayers we said and they were always prefaced with ...."For those who care to join in....."
(Oh...funny story....when I used to chair the meetings, at one of them, I called on one man to lead us out with The Lord's Prayer, as we said at all of those meetings. I was later reprimanded by another member....the man was Jewish...and I was told I needed to make amends, which I did at the next meeting. (He did a great job with that prayer despite that, though :)
I have my Christian friends now and I can talk all the God stuff I want to and no longer do I have to watch every word for fear I will upset someone because I used the (God forbid...) "G-O-D" word. And it got old going to almost every meeting and hearing people trying to tip-toe, sugar-coat and make excuses for believing in God just so as not to offend the people who didn't. (And I used to be one of them who did some of that tip-toeing back in my people pleasing, please don't be mad at me sorry ass days.
And if there would be less denial of God's existence and more people believing in Him, there would certainly be a lot less mess in the world! There, I have said it. And I am not ashamed of saying it either. (Big Grin)
Hey Visionz, ... This 'board' is similar to a woman's monthly cycle ... it too, periodically gets irritating for a while ... but we learn to take things with a grain of salt and move forward ...
If you'll take the time to review some past threads and posts, I think you'll find that there is a treasure trove of knowledge and wisdom here ... please stick around and share your experience, strength, and hope ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
P.S. I don't give one iota for 'political correctness' as you might have guessed ... (i think that stuff's a crock)
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
This board is not affiliated with Alcoholics Anonymous. This site uses the name, however, AA does not support this particular board.
If you can stomach the insults and cursing out of other alcoholics on this board which sometimes happens, it shouldn't be difficult to deal with my posting my choice of an article to share. And sorry if the way I am staying sober isn't acceptable to you. Hey, but I understand...I have had a difficult time with tolerance myself.
This board is not affiliated with Alcoholics Anonymous. This site uses the name, however, AA does not support this particular board.
If you can stomach the insults and cursing out of other alcoholics on this board which sometimes happens, it shouldn't be difficult to deal with my posting my choice of an article to share. And sorry if the way I am staying sober isn't acceptable to you. Hey, but I understand...I have had a difficult time with tolerance myself.
leavetherest wrote:
Hi jhamlett..... I lost most all the "friends" I had in the meetings when I relapsed. No love lost. It was all a meant to be for me. Only hope that they all are part of the 2% (or whatever it is) a year, 5 years and more from now that is still sober. I wish no ill will on any alcoholic no matter how miserable and hypocritical some of them are where ever they are.
One of my favorite meetings I attended took out The Lord's Prayer because it was too "Christian" and would offend non-Christians. What's next? Remove the Serenity Prayer and other prayers in the meetings??? I loved the prayers we said and they were always prefaced with ...."For those who care to join in....."
(Oh...funny story....when I used to chair the meetings, at one of them, I called on one man to lead us out with The Lord's Prayer, as we said at all of those meetings. I was later reprimanded by another member....the man was Jewish...and I was told I needed to make amends, which I did at the next meeting. (He did a great job with that prayer despite that, though :)
I have my Christian friends now and I can talk all the God stuff I want to and no longer do I have to watch every word for fear I will upset someone because I used the (God forbid...) "G-O-D" word. And it got old going to almost every meeting and hearing people trying to tip-toe, sugar-coat and make excuses for believing in God just so as not to offend the people who didn't. (And I used to be one of them who did some of that tip-toeing back in my people pleasing, please don't be mad at me sorry ass days.
And if there would be less denial of God's existence and more people believing in Him, there would certainly be a lot less mess in the world! There, I have said it. And I am not ashamed of saying it either. (Big Grin)
I have had those quite often in the past, Tanin. Not sure if you read all of my postings or skimmed over the parts where I say that I am sober and happy. Not much of a "pity" party here, just a happy party. Sorry, fella....you need to find someone else to single out and try to start crap with....you have no affect on me whatsoever. In fact, I pity YOU. Now, eat your oatmeal little boy and move on.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Monday 22nd of August 2016 03:38:57 AM
I am glad that you pointed out that it is not in the BB. In fact, so much of what I am doing to stay sober now is not in the BB. With AA, I did have to literally..."take what I want, and leave the rest".And that is all I will and am going to say about that for now because I really have no desire to defend myself and my personal decisions. I am doing what is right for me. I'm sober and I'm happy today and most importantly I have no desire to drink.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Sunday 21st of August 2016 11:32:23 AM
We all must be cautious when we both exclude portions of the AA program in our recovery AND insist on cutting off communications with others who've experienced a good recovery (sponsors, fellow AAs, impartial discussants, doctors,etc.). When we do that we just might be flying blind. And we can kid ourselves about what is really beneficial for us.
The risks of making BOTH mistakes are severely high.
Seems like the jerk factor on this board is getting higher and higher. I don't participate here enough to waste any emotional energy on sticking around. This thread is a window into the soul of the collective assholes that come hear and just pick at each other. Screw it, I'll find support other places. Shame.
From what I have seen, and experienced, with myself and others is that when you take away the alcohol the original seeds of discontent in our lives that drove the drinking still remain. While the steps are meant to take care of these challenges, they don't address deep rooted problems such as PTSD, OCD, ACoA. As such, the drivers that made seek relief by drinking in the first place remain intact, often compounded by other related problems like weeds that have over-run a garden.
Speaking for myself, I didn't drink because of "deep rooted problems". I drank, because it was fun. For a long time. But then it came to a point where it wasn't fun anymore. Any personality problems I have/had, were caused by drinking.
now that I don't drink anymore, a lot of those problems are going away.
doesnt matter if you have problems because of drinking, or you had the problems before you started drinking, and you drank to relieve them. It's better to quit drinking either way.
