Hi I am perplexed I read about the alcoholic personality and the traits, as well as the personality of children of alcoholics. I am an adult 56 years of age, my father was a severe alcoholic, I remember being embarrassed quite often but I never stopped loving my father. He sobered up for a 5 year period and was the best father you could ask for. He got cancer then used that as an excuse to start drinking again. His health failed so he stopped between binges otherwise he would of continued to drink. My question is have repressed my memories of his alcoholism so I could cope? I became an alcoholic am one now will be forever but I do not blame my father. I harbor resentment, about my failures but I do not blame my father. I think the whole children of alcoholics is overblown, I believe we inherit the gene but what we do with it is on us not them , am I wrong?
Your post seems to be touching on at least three topics.
1. Yes, you're right, once we get to AA it's important that we take responsibility for our recovery, and not use the idea of blaming others as an excuse to relapse or continue drinking.
2. The 'children of alcoholics idea', which is the focus of other groups outside of AA, is likewise not attempting to provide an excuse for continuing drinking or engaging in any other harmful behavior, it is focused on helping people find ways to live healthy and satisfying lives today, regardless of the trauma they may have experienced as a child being raised by an active alcoholic. For some people with these issues in their past, this can be important.
3. For us here in AA, it's important for us to not get bogged down in questions about 'why am I an alcoholic? where did I get this alcoholism from?', especially in early sobriety. When we are newly sober, we are like people who have woken up in the middle of the night and discovered that the house is on fire. Now is not the time to conduct a detailed investigation into how the fire started. First things first. I've been sober for many years and I still don't know 'why' I'm an alcoholic. Doesn't matter. What matters is that I know what I need to do to stay sober, and I keep doing it.
-- Edited by davep12and12 on Monday 20th of June 2016 03:04:18 PM
Thank you, python pappy and davep12 and 12, I am new to AA, I have been a huge binge drinker for 35 years and I have always heard the children of alcoholics story, I suppose there is some truth to it, but I believe in the nature theory, I made my own bed and made my own mistakes. I had an alcoholic father who was drunk daily and could never hold a job. The funny thing is his father rarely drank and all of his son's were hard
core alcoholics. So where is the theory to explain that? I just want to quit and coming to AA is going to do that, I have a long way to go, I walked by a bar yesterday to pick up pizzas for the family, and I got goosebumps as I passed my favourite stomping ground. I wish you well in your surgery, I have been reading your posts everyone likes you.
Thank k you, bunchie
Have you been reading the Big Book? I admire your tenacity to find out more and do more reading about alcoholism. I was like that to a degree. A wise person on this board ....(ok, it was Pappy..) suggested that I focus on reading the Big Book because I was also reading "self-help" books. I didn't agree with him at first (stubborn-ass, I was--still can be...) however, I have changed and A LOT!!! The Big Book is by far the most helpful book for me about alcoholism. All I really want to do and especially since I relapsed is take the best care of me that I can. I really don't need to figure all of the intricacies out about alcoholism like I thought I did. Maybe my brain just ain't big enough...LOL! I just want and need to stay sober and the Big Book is helping me do that.
Thank you, I guess I am getting all caught up in the mechanics of alcoholism; and should be focusing on the path to keep me sober. The funny thing is. I have been drinking for 35 years strong and this is the first time in at least 25 years that I have been sober for more than 3 days in a row. My anxiety is going away and my depression between binges is gone as well. I have been keeping busy reading about alcoholism, it really is an interesting subject, I just wish I was not part of the subject matter,lol
Thank you
Bunchie
Bunchie, ... Try not 'over-analize' this alcoholism sh!t ... we got it, and we alone decide if, and when, we are go'n to do somethin about it ... simple, don't waste your time try'n to figr out the 'how' or 'why' ... ... ... work on recovery, IF, that's truly what you want ... and if you want our help, we will willingly give it ... ***No Charge***
Let's see .... uhhhh, do I want to live a reasonably happy life, OR die early a miserable drunk who no-one cares one iota about????? .... it's really a choice ... a choice my sponsor said that only I have the previlege to make ....
I Pray you make the 'right' one ... Love you and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Thank you Python Pappy , I am committed day 11, going to meeting straight from work. Its been innumerable years that I have actually said I have not drank in 11 days.i honestly can not remember.
Thank you,
Bunchie
I have you in my prayers for your surgery
I never really thought about it before but if you can quit for 11 days you can quit for eternity by sticking to the same principals, going to meetings.,think about your family and not your booze buddies, although some of them I hold dear to my heart. I will just have to have a different relationship going forward.
Thank you for your support, your words of encouragement are music to my ears, I hope someday I can help like you people have helped me by responding to my lonely rantings which are not so lonely anymore lol.
Bunchie
I am of the belief that alcoholism is not inherited, I don't believe there's a gene that you're born with that automatically makes you an alkie if you start to drink. I believe it is acquired. Somebodys personality might have traits that make them tend to over-do things, and if alcohol is their drug of choice, they become alcoholics after they subject their body and mind to repeated alcohol use.
If food is your addiction, it's not the food that is addicting, it's the way you think about it and abuse it. Same thing for cocaine. Cocaine is not even a physically addictive drug. It's the way the user thinks about it. Other drugs, such as heroin, are physically addicting, and if you take it enough, your body becomes dependent on it. But you're not born a heroin addict. And you're not born an alcoholic.
You may have issues that make you look to something to take to escape your worries, your mind, or maybe you just like the way something makes you feel. Some people don't have the discipline to do things in moderation, whether it be food, alcohol, drugs, sex, or even playing video games or watching TV.
I am one of those people. Alcohol was my indulgence. But I wasn't born an alcoholic. I became one.
now that I've developed this alcoholism, I can never go back and drink safely, in a moderate way, ever again. Even if I went to the Himilayas and studied and practiced meditation and discipline with a Tibetan Monk, and became the most disciplined, level-headed person in the world, I couldn't discipline myself to drink moderately. Once you've reached the point of alcoholism, you're brain remembers it forever. And all it takes is 1 friggen drink to fall right back to daily use.
I always thought it strange...that expression, "drug of choice".......
I never had the "chance" to become a social drinker. When I started drinking in my teens, I couldn't just drink "a" drink. I almost always drank to get drunk and while others around me could stop at one or two, I felt slighted if I had to because I wasn't offered more, it ran out, etc. It was as if I were addicted to it from the start--it wasn't because it built up in my system and I became dependent on it either. I wasn't an everyday drinker in my teens. Not even a every weekend drinker...nor was I all the way through my 20's and 30's. It wasn't until I was in my mid-40's that I started to drink almost everyday--and then it turned into everyday. In my earlier drinking days, it was "for keeps" and I usually didn't stop drinking until I threw up and/or passed out. Many a night I would get intimate with the toilet and vow "never again" because I felt like crap. That never stuck--there was always an "again" and an again and again and again--even if I was a week later, a month later or longer.
There was nothing particularly appealing about the taste when I started drinking. I hated the taste for a long while. Now, I loveeee Little Debbie's. Especially those oatmeal ones with the large soft oatmeal cookies filled with creme. I used to sit down and eat almost a box of those in one sitting! I am not apt to sit down and eat a box of them if they left out the sugar because they would taste awful! I have, however, downed a lot of alcohol regardless of how awful it tastes. When I relapsed, I couldn't believe how nasty that first bottle of wine tasted --so much worse! And it didn't affect me the same way as I remembered it doing either. Most people who are not addicts would have the sense to throw it out. My mind, however, told me that I just needed to drink more....my sobriety time was already shot to Hell anyway, I didn't want to pour it out, the money was already spent, I was never going back to AA again after this, would my mom ever speak to me again, would I get kicked out on the street, would I have to beg money from people if I did, what would happen with all my "stuff" --I couldn't take it all with me if I got kicked out, would my daughter ever talk to me again, I was going to lose the friends I had in AA, maybe I needed to drink more to feel more, etc. All these thoughts and probably more were racing through my mind and not one of them stopped me from finishing that damn bottle! This is the same kind of thinking I had when I was drinking over 20 drinks a day, every day. It is as if I never stopped drinking at all. My mind went right back to where it was during that time.
So I do believe I am an alcoholic because it is in my genes. My grandfather died of alcoholism, his son--my dad died of it and I have other cousins and relatives on my dad's side (not my mom's side) who either have died of it or are heavy drinkers now.
...and I didn't "choose" this drug---It was not my choice.....this drug chose me.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Thursday 23rd of June 2016 05:54:22 AM
In my experience, it's the mental health that is genetic, not the alcoholism per se. If you're susceptible to conditions such as bipolarity, depression, anxiety, etc, you're more than likely going to experiment with drugs and alcohol to numb your mental pain. Whether or not you choose alcohol, heroin or something else depends on preference and experimentation.
I grew up in an alcoholic home and was taught by words and example that daily drinking is normal. Also that it is normal to reach for alcohol to help you cope with stress.
My alkie parents (without meaning to) taught me to use alcohol as a tool.
It's genetic, it's a scientific fact that Alciholics process alcohol different from normal people. It has something to do with the metabolism and enzymes in the liver. It is the reason for their high tolerance at an early age as well. I will get back on the heroin addict later , I have to go I am at work, I love this e-board.
Bunchie
I believe alcoholism is genetic, just like some people are born likely to get cancer, more so than others ... I also think the environment we are raised in pushes us toward, or away from, certain 'ways of think'n', ergo, how we end up choose'n to live our lives ... and ultimately whether or not we'll be happy or miserable with our lives ... (There are some people that get a certain kind of perverse pleasure out of be'n miserable ... I used to be that way prior to recovery, go fig'r ... ) ...
My situation??? ... My dad had an uncle that was alcoholic ... However, my mom and dad had very strong religious beliefs and believed to drink "strong drink" or "given to strong drink", was a sin ... so they never did during their lifetimes ... be'n raised in this type environment, I never took a drink until I reached 20 y/o ... SO, I feel the family certainly had the genes for alcoholism, it's just they never drank cause it was against their belief system ... (okay, I turned out to be the 'Black Sheep' in the family) ... for me, I must confess that I strayed from the way I was raised ... looooooong story, I won't bore you with it ... ... ...
As far as 'inheriting' the alcoholic gene, I feel that the difference between the alcoholic and the non-alcoholic is simply, like Baba put it, our bodies differ in the way we process the alcohol in our system ... My wife can have one glass of wine and not be safe to drive a car ... she feels 'sick' when she has a little 'buzz' go'n ... and she hates that feel'n ... I, on the other hand, could take one drink, then absolutely develop a craving that was outta this world ... I had to have more ... I was one sick puppy ...
That's it ... nuff said ... (from me anyway) ...
Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
When I first started AA I was determined to figure out why I became an alcoholic. I asked my parents about relatives who might be drunks, etc. I wanted someone to "blame" it on, or rationalize why this happened to me. The fact of the matter, I finally figured out, is it doesn't matter. I am an alcoholic, end of story. It doesn't matter why it happened.
I agree Chris, I for one do not blame anyone for my drinking( except my wife, she cultivated my alcoholic gene and made me drink, lol) I am just early in recovery and have been doing a lot of reading about it I find it interesting. Like I said to leavetherest " I just wish I was not part of the subject matter" I knew along time ago I have the alcoholic genes in my family but I had to continue drinking making a complete ass of myself and embarrassing my family. I have no one to blame but myself but I think their are different degrees of alcoholism and I don't know if that is caused by genetics or just the progression of the disease or combination mental illness problems also. Are they caused by the alcoholism or were they present before and exasperated by the alcoholism. I do not know why people are upset with my curiosity on this subject.
Thank you
Bunchie
I agree also Chris ... if'n you got it, you got it ... and find'n out how or why you got it won't change a damn thing, LOL ... the first step, of course, is 'admit'n you got it' and you have no control over your life ... mean'n you realize you're 'powerless' when it comes to try'n to control your drink'n ...
Bunchie, ... When I first went to AA, after do'n the Rehab bit, I bought every Book AA had to offer ... I think there were 14 at the time ... then I made notes of all the books mentioned in those books and bought them too ... I wanted to know every frick'n thing there was to this alcohol problem I had/have ... (beware of searching for one of the books Bill W. mentions called "Modern Man in Search of a Soul" by Jung ... That'll blow your mind, if'n you make it all the way through it, LOL .... it's also 'out of print' ...) ...
My point??? ... is no matter how much time or money we spend look'n for the hows or whys, it don't change the fact that we have to 'change the way we 'think'' ... or succomb to the prison, that ball and chain, alcohol becomes for us ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hi Bunchie...
I was not upset at all about your post and I am sorry if I came across that way in my posting.
I am upset at myself for drinking again and fear that I won't stay sober maybe comes out in my response(s). More directed at myself and no one else. No one got me drunk again and is to blame --except me.
I will say that I have always been me. (Duhh????) What I mean is I can remember me always worrying about others liking me, hating me, being indifferent to me. I have always been overly-sensitive and a people pleaser. And I have been a lot of other things as well which, at least from what I have learned since being in AA, are typical traits of alcoholics. Non-alcoholics can have these characteristics as well, though. So I do not know if my alcoholics genes have helped make me the way I am or I am who I am and I would still be the way I am even if I was not alcoholic.
I have similar traits also that's why I am avoiding people and places I use to drink at and with. I am just focusing on stopping and doing a lot of reading and attending meetings and i have been posting stuff that I find interesting and somewhat confusing, and I thought people were upset that I was not focusing on sobriety.believe me that's my number one priority and right now the how's and whys are helping me understand my problem. I just wish now I read more about it when my father was drinking, who was a severe alcoholic, I would of been more compassionate at times, although he knew I loved him to the core and he died knowing that, there were times I was hard on him because I did not understand how I'll he was. So I will probably be posting how's and whys to keep me busy and I am going to find that book by Jung that Pappy mentioned, I love this board, my father would of loved even more, wish he was here.
God Bless you , Leave the rest
Another morning sober, I love it
Bunchie
If I can, I'll try to get you a list of some very good books I read ... they were instrumental in shape'n my 'new way of think'n' ... along with my sponsor, of course ...
Must prepare to get to Surgeon today to see when he can operate ... so I'm move'n a little 'slow' right now, LOL ...
Take Care and have a great day, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Sounds like you are doing everything you can to stay sober Bunchie. I too had misunderstandings about my dad. I wasn't hard on him though--he scared the heck out of me --very tall, broad and serious looking most of my growing up years. That was back in the old days when kids actually listened to their parents. All my dad had to do was look at any of us and we knew we better behave! I went to my mom and told her about my concern about his drinking (b/4 I got into heavy drinking myself). He went to one AA meeting, came back and said, "I'm not like any of those people. They are a bunch of drunks!" (He was exactly like those people, turned out :(
Here are a few of the books I read in the begin'n ... (mid 90's) ... (I didn't sober up for any lenth of time til '08 ... reread all the literature and finally took it to heart ...) ...
Hopefully you're more serious about sobriety than I was to begin with ... it'll save you a ton of heart-ache and misery if you are ...
Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers
Modern Man in Search of a Soul ..... Carl Jung?
The Greatest Thing in the World ..... Henry Drummond
The Sermon on the Mount ..... Emmet Fox
Living Sober
The Language of the Heart
As Bill Sees It
The Shack ..... William P. Young ... (non- AA related, but this book opened the door for me to believe in 'spiritual progress') ... (highly recommend)
These are just a few of the books I read ... the others have not been unpacked yet from our last move ... I'll have to wait til after surgery to look for them, just go'n up the stairs a while ago caused me to sit 1/2 hour to get the pain outta my chest ... sorry ... I want to give you all the tools I have, that 'got and kept me sober' ... please be patient and just don't drink 'today' ... that's all it takes really, just 'One Day at a Time' ... ... ...
Love ya man and God Bless, Pappy
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Friday 24th of June 2016 09:26:43 AM
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Thank you so much Pappy , I will read these am on the big book of course now, and I instead on reading these one at a time so I can learn and then post things that perplex me and you can shed light on the subject matter to help clarify. You are a true person so glad I met you and Leavetherest, good people.
Thank you,
God bless you,
Your in my prayers,
Bunchie
and I'll just sit here, munch on my popcorn, and read your postings and Pappy's responses to your questions...then I don't have to read the books myself. (LOL....just kidding, however I look forward to seeing your postings about the books, Bunchie)
