On day one of my sobriety, a girl approached me and bought me a Big Book, which was really nice but immediately made me feel obligated to her. She then proceeded to tell me exactly what to read and mark. Okay, this is okay I am thinking. On day two of my sobriety, she corrals me privately out of the ear of others, wants me to tell her what I marked and why--however, when I shared with her different things about myself she was angry--it was to be a one-way conversation only. I told her that one of my triggers to drink is shunning and she told me she doesn't care if I hate her, she is going to direct me her way and I am to listen--she also orders me to text her and call her everyday. There was another meeting after our private chat where she went out of her way to ignore me and avoid eye contact. After the meeting, she shunned me, didn't say goodbye, and neither did anyone else. It was like the whole group (very small--less that 15 people--) suddenly wanted nothing to do with me.
She only has 4 months sober, I DID NOT ask her to be my sponsor or encourage her in any way. I was hijacked. After I left the meeting I went straight to the store and got a beer. The feelings of rejection are exactly why I drink. It is how I comfort myself knowing no one likes me anywhere I go--I am saddled with feeling of extreme rejection due to my hating myself for the things I have done in my life--and NEVER able to do a 5th step--except to confide in God. I have been burnt in the rooms so many times I trust NO ONE. It will take time to find the right sponsor and I only had two days--shouldn't I be allowed to get to know the group and attend some meeting before I make such an important decision?
This is not my first rodeo with AA. My last sponsor had over 3 years sober--yet we wound up getting high together. She too was very domineering. I need someone who is gentle, I am isolated in my life with no friends or family. I don't need a dictator. I already can beat the shit out of myself. I want to choose my sponsor--I WANT TO CHOOSE my sponsor, CAREFULLY.
Not only was this woman immediately toxic to me--the whole time I was drunk last night, I kept worrying about HER picking up if I go back to the meeting and tell her to back-off--she has so little time and I if she were to pick up over this I would never forgive myself. I also am afraid of rejection by the group because she is beloved to them and I need to tell her to back off. Yes, I could go to other groups and I am looking at Celebrate Recovery--however, this group is near my house--and an AA group shouldn't run off someone because they don't immediately like someone. I want to work through this.
I met one girl who I thought we hit if off, but after I shared in a woman's meeting, she now doesn't want to know me either--that's okay. But these two women are part of a very small group of about 7 women.
What should I do ? How should I handle this? Should I tell the group that I picked up again? This is why AA never works for me. I need to belong to AA, not be judged by it...I WANT TO BE SOBER.
Please help.
-- Edited by lindyw on Thursday 19th of May 2016 07:50:53 AM
Hi Lindy...
I haven't posted here in a little while because I have been struggling myself and have been coming here to read and "listen" rather than "talk". It has been several hours since you posted and I have found myself coming back here to see if someone answered you. Since you haven't received a response, I will make an exception, as my heart really aches for you. You sound so much like me and things which have happened to me as well as the way my thinking has been for a good while.
That person, although she may have good intentions, sounds like a control freak. You have the right to choose your own sponsor and not have someone tell you that they are without you having a choice in the matter. I have given Big Books and other AA related books to people and have expected nothing in return. My only hope is that they helped someone.
I will suggest that you be cautious as to what personal details you share to others. I have learned the hard way that unless it is something that I wouldn't mind the rest of the folks in AA to know about me, I keep it to myself.
Something which I am working on now is to try and not guess at what others are thinking. I have been like that most of my life. I jumped to conclusions when others acted a certain way to me that it must have been something I said or did. I also have (and still do...) jump to conclusions as to what someone will think of me if I do or say something and my fear has caused me not to do what my heart has told me to do. A good example of that is that I talked myself out of responding to you out of fear that others on this board would think I have no right to post anything like this trying to help someone because I haven't done a great job staying sober. All of that is in my imagination and my imagination harms me more than anyone can.
It is my opinion that you owe no one in the rooms an explanation as to your own sobriety. It is yours and between you and your Higher Power.
I have learned that for me, at least, being in AA requires not worrying about what others think about me...not worrying about the gossiping which may actually happen or that I fear may happen. It requires going in there, holding my head up straight and not letting what others say or think about me make a damn bit of difference.
Will you let me know when you reach that point, Lindy? Unfortunately, because of so many different things which have happened in the rooms to me, I have not yet. So I am still struggling and probably always will until I do.
Thank you so much and big hug. Since I posted this, I went looking around the web site and clicked on the ACA link. Wow! And there it is. I really urge you to take a look...there was immediate insight into this recurring problem. She is not my first control freak. I literally attract them like a magnet to steel. I just want to be normal like everyone else. I want to go to a meeting, be allowed to feel my own way around until I am comfortable, share--even though my sobriety is new and most would say I have nothing to add to the discussion--but in order for me to stay sober, I have to be heard. I have to be treated like I am a human being and not a project that has just walked in the door.
I totally understand where you are coming from as far as fear of man. I am so, so, so grateful that you answered me. At this exact moment, they are all sitting in a meeting and I am not there. I intend to make a new meeting tomorrow. An ACA meeting on Saturday, and go back to the original group next week with a gracious attitude and a kind way to deal with this young lady (who has a lot of wisdom, I value her input, and I appreciate her outstretched hand.) However, I do not believe she has enough time sober to deal with me, and I really resent her hissy fit yesterday and her jeapordizing both of our sobriety--mine is gone again. But, God willing, I will have tomorrow and I have a list of meetings, resolve, and I WANT this.
I CAN read EVERYONE"S MIND!!! Lol. Too bad I wasn't ever able to cash in on this incredible gift. Seriously though, I think that I acquired this very bad habit by being raised by (wolves) Alcoholics. Man, you better have been trying to figure out what they are thinking before something was thrown. It is my deepest desire to love and be loved freely without having to jump through hoops--or make others jump through hoops. I am not letting anyone steal my sobriety from me again. In the meantime however, I have to figure out the kindest and firmest way to deal with this. Thank you again. You are awesome.
-- Edited by lindyw on Thursday 19th of May 2016 12:17:40 PM
-- Edited by lindyw on Thursday 19th of May 2016 12:22:35 PM
Sorry I didn't catch your post earlier ... I'm having some 'on-going' medical issues which sometimes dictate when, and how often, I can visit the board here ...
The good thing I felt from your post, is that it sounds like you're sober right now ... I hope so anyway ... your experience with this group AND this 'over-powering' lady that insisted on helping you is NOT what AA is about ... we should never 'force' ourselves on anyone, alcoholic or otherwise ... it does sound, however, like you've had some time around AA and enough to know that all groups are NOT the same ...
Your sobriety should come first AND be the most important thing in your life ... if you've made the decision you want to stop drink'n, then you're in the right place ... I suggest finding another group, if possible, and visit them a few times before 'writing off' AA altogether ... LTR, above, had a good response to your post ... AA members are human and some of us are very 'broken' individuals ... some are so uh, uh, ... gung-ho that we exhibit too much enthusiasm and jump at the chance to help a 'new-comer' ... and consequently go about it in the wrong way ...
I am so sorry you had to go through that ... and if you continue to go to that one AA group, then do so just to listen for a while ... especially before seeking out a sponsor ... I always recommend a new-comer go to at least a meet'n a day for 90 days OR as many as they possibly can when they first come to AA OR if they are 'returning' after some experimenting ... if drink'n took control over our lives, we must decide if we really want to quit, if so, we must do anything to learn to NOT DRINK ... and about the sponsor, one should go to meet'ns on a regular basis and observe which of the older members, with good, happy, sobriety, is there regularly too ... then pick or ask someone you think you can get along with and allow them to lead you through the steps at your own pace ... it can take time and patience to do this in a way that you are comfortable ...
And of course you have the love and wisdom from those here to draw upon ... we love you unconditionally and most of us here on this board will not judge or harass you ... (there are some assholes no matter where you go, and we're no exception here ... but they are few and far between ...) ...
Be sure to continue go'n to meet'ns and take what you like from them and leave the rest ... as leavetherest above was say'n ... Also, one of our 'sayings' in AA is "What other people think of me is none of my business." ... you just be yourself ... AND, we'll love ya til you can learn to love yourself here ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hi LindyW, Sorry to hear about the situation. But there are simple ways to move forward. Just ask someone else - ANYONE else, really, to be your sponsor. We're not signing a life-long contract when we ask someone to be our sponsor, and we can change our minds later, and the person you choose might turn out to only be a 'temporary' sponsor, but it's up to you to take the action to ask someone. Just having someone else as a sponsor can remedy a situation of someone trying to 'appoint' themselves to be your sponsor without your choice.
And of course, once we DO choose a sponsor, we ought to be willing to follow direction from them. If I ask someone to sponsor me, so I can benefit from their experience in recovery, and then I want to have a debate with them when they ask me to do simple things like call them or read something or whatever, I need to take a good look at why I feel the need to do that, instead of just trying their suggestion and seeing what happens.
And I did want to point out something in your comments about why you chose to drink over this - it is a really, really bad outlook for us to think that we drink 'because of what that person did to me'. Other people do NOT have the power to 'make us drink', nor do they have the power to keep us sober. We need to be rid of that kind of thinking or we WILL drink, again and again. We need to accept the fact that WE now have the choice to drink or stay sober today, one day at a time, regardless of what anyone else says or does, and regardless of how we feel.
And regarding that 5th step, there's no rule that says you have to do it with someone in AA. You can choose someone outside AA, as long as they understand what we are doing and are in a position to help us do it. There's lots of info in the BB and 12&12 about this. Again, we must be rid of the delusion that other people are preventing us from recovering from alcoholism. Today, we have a choice.
-- Edited by davep12and12 on Thursday 19th of May 2016 02:31:21 PM
-- Edited by davep12and12 on Thursday 19th of May 2016 04:26:52 PM
Thank you so much. Everything you wrote was what I thought AA was. I want to observe this group and the ladies to know who to ask to sponsor me. I do really want to get sober and want to do 90 in 90. Thank you so much for your welcome here. I really appreciate it. I pray you feel better and I am glad you are here.
In my town the "girls" at the meetings are VERY clicky. They didn't like me cuz I was decent looking and unfortunately the guys are shopping. I wasn't flirty. But, there are "women" there that were much more receptive. I'm not looking for a best friend, just to be civil. It seems like everyone keeps their sponsor a secret too. I have quite a few guy friends that are ONLY friends too. They encouraged me to not give a shit what others think, they have alot more time than me. I have yet to start going to meeting again, but I'm not saying comin back. Just gonna be there. Good Luck
Lindy welcome to the board. You are in "new comer status" which was really sucky for me also. I was the newbie and there were all these "old timers" with various lengths of sobriety real and unreal attempting to impress and no doubt sign up another sponsee. It didn't work because they didn't and I didn't know that I had issues which made relationships dicey. For one I was Oppositional Defiant (and didn't know) and Attention Deficit (and didn't know this either). I couldn't take much in and would get greatly pissed off and rage full when they made their attempts. Yes I would threaten harm and so after time they got the message and left me to my own devices which was to listen with an open mind and go ask for help from those I thought had the most help and who were willing to share it with me. I listened to and heard direction and instruction from inside the fellowship "If you keep and OPEN MIND...you will find help" and I shopped meetings. Being closed minded and self centered during those times was a gift for me cause I made myself totally responsible for what I would take and leave. There were old timers I would not hang with and didn't fear or hate...It was what it was and I have gotten sober and stayed sober in spite of and because of many. Take what you like and leave the rest was an early suggestion and it works when you work it. (((hugs)))
I don't believe anyone in AA has the attitude that they are taking on a "project". I am pretty ultra-sensitive to that word, as I was accused by one person who was a newcomer that I was only helping her to "take on a project". She even said those exact words in a share during a meeting we both attended and because she had brought it up and accused me of it several times and consistently questioned my motives--I felt like I was singled out. It hurt me terribly. I only wanted to help the woman--I did not have any self-serving motivations--I wanted to help her.
When we refer to taking on a "project" ...well, "project" to me is an inanimate object. We are human beings for God's sake. I truly believe, despite some of the things I have posted, that everyone in AA reaches out to help others as a way to help themselves. Life is short....time is valuable...and anytime anyone uses their time to try and help someone stay sober it is powerful as well as meaningful. Everything everyone did to try and help me was genuine and done out of love and concern. Everything I did to try and help others was done out of love and concern. Why minimize the importance of anytime one helps another? Why question it? I know when I was able to get and stay sober for a while I was so damned grateful I wanted to help others and I wanted them to experience and feel the same overwhelming emotions of relief that I was feeling. There was not any other agenda in my mind other than that.
I know that there are folks who are a bit anxious and enthusiastic in their attempts to help others. Some can come across as very controlling. I had that happen to me. There was a man who came up to me before the meetings when I was a newcomer and bombarded me with questions..."Do you have a sponsor?", "Do you have a Home Group", "well, why not?" "Why are you taking so long?" I was extremely annoyed with him at first, and when after three months, and he received the same replies from me " no" and "no", he got this woman to talk to me before a meeting when I was going to pick up my 90 day chip. Her questions were the same freckled with "Well, so and so and I are very concerned about you. Do you have a sponsor or a home group yet? What is taking you so long?" When my replies were the same to her as they were to that man, she replied to me...."Well, until you are willing to take this seriously, 'WE' are not going to let you threaten our sobriety!" I replied to her that I had over 90 days of sobriety and I was taking my sobriety seriously and (prob. haughtily...)replied that I had 97 days of sobriety and I was going to pick up my chip. She repeated what she said about me not being serious and the not letting me threaten their sobriety part...and walked away from me. I sat there, feeling so awful and feeling the tears coming and knowing I was going to break down....I got up and left ...I couldn't stay for the meeting. I wanted to drink but I didn't. I stayed true to myself and stayed sober that day.
I shared this with a couple of people I felt I could trust. It backfired. Yep, got worse. It got back to the woman above and she was helping lead a meeting and shot me ice cold daggers throughout the meeting. I remember noticing how her stares got to me to the point that I was shaking so much when I was drinking my coffee I was worried about spilling it on me. It got worse, still......I got a sponsor by my fifth month of sobriety and approached the man I mentioned above after a meeting. It was a huge meeting. Lots of people all around mingling and talking outside the meeting place. I walked up to this man and thanked him for encouraging me to get a sponsor and that I found one. He got all mad looking and starting yelling at me because I had shared with someone that he was giving me a hard time about finding a sponsor. I kept trying to tell him I wasn't badmouthing him, I was upset because of what that woman said and didn't understand what she meant. He kept putting his hand in my face saying "Be quiet! Listen! Stop talking!" and kept yelling at me. It was horrible.I felt like I was in grade school again and in big trouble with a teacher or one of my parents. I broke. I started crying and people were walking by me and I couldn't stop. He kept yelling at me and they would look at him and then look at me. It was awful. The woman who gave me a ride walked up to us and said to me "Are you ready to go? Let's go". I did. I left there a complete mess and wanted to drink. Again, I didn't. I was somehow someway able to remove myself and my NUMBER ONE PRIORITY TO STAY SOBER away from all that bs.
Pretty amazing for me, this ultra-sensitive, people pleaser person.
Anyway, I know within my heart that both this man and this woman had the best intentions. They were excited about their own sobriety and wanted to pass it on to me. Although both of their delivery methods to do this were not optimal--still, they were trying to help me. I cannot say that either of them became two of my closest friends, but I was able to remain civil to them and we actually got along fairly well.
And I can say I look back at it now and think....."Wow....they gave a damn!"
I have been in and out of sobriety and AA since 2008. Currently, I have 11.5 months and got sober and stay sober with help from AA and a long-distance sponsor. I go to meetings seldom, say once every two weeks. I have had many sponsors over the years, some were @ssholes and some were not. The sponsor I began with this last time I got sober would tell me I was bound to abandon my pregnant girlfriend and would berate me. I simply stopped calling him and realized he is just not well, despite the fact that he had 10 years sober. Another sponsor got tired of my BS some years back and said "leave me the f___ alone". I did. Point is, my sobriety is not contingent on the lives of other people. I used to drink at people who rejected me. I found that my relationship with alcohol goes much deeper than self-esteem issues or childhood trauma or any other perceived force upon me. I know lots of people who are painfully shy or have crippling self-doubt that do not drink themselves to death. For me, part of my journey in this has been getting straight with the causes and conditions regarding me and alcohol, and psycho-social factors were just scapegoats, albeit convincing ones. Anything can exacerbate my drinking but none of those things I have found were actual causes worth sandbagging against. In the 8+ years of AA, I have 4-6 people in my phone from all over the country who I call regularly and who call me, and that's my main fellowship. Sometimes it just takes awhile to find the right people or for them to find you.
Dodsworth, I just want to thank you so very much for your posting. This quote from you says so much....
"Point is, my sobriety is not contingent on the lives of other people.
I have often measured my value as a person--my self-worth--based on what I thought were other people's opinions of me. If someone said to me, "You are a great person", I ate that stuff up and wanted to believe that I was truly a "GREAT" person. Fairly recently, someone close to me actually did tell me that they didn't give a shit about me and said "You are a piece of crap!" to me. I believed this to be so and grew up thinking this about myself so all that person did was confirm what I already felt to be so in my mind. So, I went out right after that comment was made---got a bottle--and it gave me a reason for me to drink again. (Thank you person for saying that, because now I can blame you for me going out and getting this bottle! THAT WAS ACTUALLY WHAT I THOUGHT AND NOT JUST THAT NIGHT--IT PROVIDED ME WITH JUSTIFICATION FOR MANY DRUNK DAYS!)
"In the 8+ years of AA, I have 4-6 people in my phone from all over the country who I call regularly and who call me, and that's my main fellowship. Sometimes it just takes awhile to find the right people or for them to find you."
I had probably over 150 contacts in my phone by the time I had two years sober. Not anymore. I was receiving harrassing texts and phone calls right before and after I relapsed and ended up changing my number. I gave six people I felt I could trust my new number. I keep in touch with one of them now. I am in very high-guard mode after experiencing several things --gossip started that I was sleeping with an oldtimer in AA, my sponsor sharing my confidential information I shared with her, and other things and all within a short amount of time. I put so much faith in AA--it was my life. My trust is so low now in anyone and anything. I am trying to at least trust myself.
I firmly believe this which you quoted...
"Sometimes it just takes awhile to find the right people or for them to find you."
Personally I feel that it will take me realizing that I can stay sober and to do so will mean that I can no longer trust other people to help keep me sober. Human beings are infallible. I hate that! I want people to do what I expect them to do and not let me down. When they do, all Hell breaks loose. It is a crying shame that I do not uphold myself and my own behaviors to the same standards I expect of others.
(And I still want to get a dog--very faithful. And to eventually have trust in God again. My faith is pretty poor right now.)
I'm sorry you have had many bad experiences with people in AA. Me too. My biggest hurdle has always been me, however, and I don't mean that in a completely blameful way- there are a hundred thousand things that I never had control over that in some small way shaped my perceptions and all I can do is be mindful of my behavior and subsequent attitudes. I can either practice radical acceptance or fight, and the latter puts me in position to have a lot expectations unmet. When I'm preoccupied with what I'm not getting, I get drunk eventually. It's really a struggle some days.
Dodsworth,
I find your words very "fitting" to me and my own thinking. I realize that if I cannot control my own behavior and attitudes about life and things which happen to me I will be forever lost. I like that "radical acceptance" thing you said. (Well, honestly, it sounds good, but to be for sure, I have to look up the definition of "radical"..LOL.) The being in a position to have a lot of unmet expectations is right on with me now; as is the being preoccupied with what I am not getting and getting drunk. That is so right on with me. It really helps to hear from someone who sounds like they understand me. I have listened so much to people in AA asking me..."What is wrong with you?" Why don't you get it?"
I do get it. I really do. I have just for some unknown reason to me, chosen not to use what it is that I get. And I believe if all of this alcoholism thing and alcoholics thing were that "easy" there would be no need for AA meetings and rehabs. We would all be "cured" and there would no doubt be no need for boards like this where other alcoholics try to help other alcoholics "get it".
Lot of thinking on this post and I know from experience that my recovery helped to restore my thinking and then the most factual description of our program is that it is a DO program. I was taught that I could not think myself into sobriety and today I will leave the thinking up to you guys and keep "DOING" what is required. It seems to me that you both are practicing "to thine own self be true" and having your expectations met. Keep coming back try using this definition of humility..."Being teachable"...
