I'm Confused

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

I'm Confused

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

I think a good question would be - what was your spiritual condition at the moment that you chose to drink again? Were you basing your actions on a conscious contact with a higher power, and turning your will and your life and your actions over to what that higher power would want for you?

Or in that moment, were you instead listening to, and acting on, the self-destructive voice of alcoholic self-will?

And perhaps momentarily reverting to believing the old lies that it always tells us, that drinking will somehow be 'the solution' to whatever it is that is causing us pain in that moment, and that drinking will somehow 'work' for us this time? What was your relationship with Step One at that moment?

I hope you don't consider these questions to be out of line. A relapse is not a moral issue. I am encouraging you to objectively and honestly examine what happened and learn from the relapse so you can better be prepared to prevent it from happening again.

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

Ohhhhh....no. I wasn't doing that, Dave. I was a mess. I was depressed, hurt, angry and hopeless. I am sure I didn't pray at all while I was putting on my shoes, grabbing my pocket book and heading out the door to buy it. I do know that I was thinking while walking there that I really shouldn't be doing it and I should turn around and not do it. I did it anyway. I was looking for that quick fix. Even though when I first relapsed at the end of September of last year and it made me sick and I hated the taste of it and didn't feel that old relaxed feeling I used to have when I drank and even though I was able to get sober right away and get some sober days/weeks/months, I kept doing it again. I just didn't feel the need to admit to you guys every single time I did it, because it was usually one day and I was sober again within a day or two. I didn't crave it, I prayed, I came on here, and I thought no more--well eventually I didn't because my trust in myself was gone. This last time was different....over the course of a little over a week, I had several bottles--never more than one a day, however it doesn't matter--I still drank. Then I hid the empties. I still haven't been able to go find them and throw them out. I am scared just the sight of them will make me want to drink again. I was at the one place I was going so much in a week, the woman that owns the place said I was one of her best customers and said "Now the next time you come, I will give you a discount".
When I got back into hiding one of my last bottles in the dirty clothes, and it didn't matter to me if the dirty underwear or socks were around the opening where I drank out of--because I was sneaking in the bathroom to gulp it, I realized I was back into it pretty bad. I guess that is not being very "spiritual" at all. :(
I think also that is when Step One came into my mind. I thought because I drank one day, could go several days --weeks--a couple of months --without picking up again, that maybe I could control it. Up until this last time though, because I was craving it every single day.
I don't think you are out of line at all, Dave. And I hope my honesty has not grossed you or anyone out too much.

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

Yup. You got it. Step One and rigorous Self-honesty about our drinking is mandatory.

"The idea that some how, some day, he will control and enjoy his drinking is the great obsession of every abnormal drinker".

"The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed. We alcoholics are men and women who have lost the ability to control our drinking."

And Steps Two and Three, which require consistent vigilance to assure that we are basing our actions not on the destructive and self-destructive thoughts from our own alcoholic self-will, but on something far better, saner, healthier than that, on a daily basis, one day at a time. Whatever I believe about the concept of "God's Will", it is not found in 'the stuff that happens to me', it is found IN OUR ACTIONS when I choose to base those actions on something other than alcoholic self-will. I make a daily commitment to base my actions on something, ANYTHING, that is better than what my fear-based, ego-driven, self-centered alcoholism is telling me to do. I may not know what God is or how the universe works, but I DO know what alcoholic self-will feels like. Whatever "God's Will" is for what I should be doing, it ain't that stuff. And I am absolutely positive that "God's Will" involves the ACTION of staying sober today.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

The 'spiritual awakening' or 'spiritual experience' doesn't occur the same way or the have the same impact on all of us in the same fashion ... with some, it's a drastic change in our feel'ns ... as if we all of a sudden understand all the things we were hear'n but couldn't 'put it all together' until now ... or perhaps it comes as a vision of something 'greater than we are' that dawns on us 'that's it', now 'I get it' kinda thingy ... or like me, I was driving down a 4-lane highway when my whole body went numb and I almost ran right off the road go'n to a meet'n, and I had the distinct sensation that a God I never knew, got in the car and sat beside me ... ... ... sorry, I still get a little choked up recalling this event ... ... ... ... ... it changed my 'whole attitude and outlook' on life ...

Everyone is different ... and it IS possible to lose that conviction in your life and fall back into that rut that you had gotten so used to when we were drink'n ... that's one reason we are told in the BB to maintain our 'conscious contact' with our HP ... If we fail to do that, then we open the door for King Alcohol to walk right back in ...
The times I tried AA before make'n it my home, when I thought of have'n a drink, I not pray on purpose, cause I'd already made my mind up I was go'n to drink ... and I didn't want to become a hypocrite on top of everthing else ... I guess ... I'm not really sure what I was think'n ... but I do thank the Lord that's been over 8 years ago ...

Don't know if this helps or not ...

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

Gosh, you guys got to me....tissue time......

guess I really didn't pay as much attention to any of what I read in the Big Book before. Although some of it had to have helped, I think I was just not paying enough attention to the actual words and the meanings. What you quoted Dave in those two sentences --well, that's what I got to thinking about me. I remember actually mourning the fact that I couldn't drink anymore, then that feeling eventually faded and I really didn't think about drinking, however, I felt I could never be around it again without wanting it. That's why I never understood how some of you talked about being able to be around drinkers and it not bothering you. That's why only a couple of weeks or so before I actually relapsed and I was taking care of my ex-sponsor's dogs and I found that opened wine in the fridge, it was one of the hardest things in the world for me not to get into it. I laid in bed at night and thought about it every night I was there. I was so very proud of myself that I didn't touch it. And I was able to tell him about it. (His partner is the drinker--he is one of the strange ones who can control his drinking).

I don't think I was as far as I thought I was in the program. I think I was just going through the motions, saying "yes" to everything I was asked to do, as well as doing everything I could do to stay sober, without really getting enough into the BB because I gotta tell you....I didn't remember any of that you quoted right before I drank again.

And Pappy, when I drive again, I hope I have a similar experience........although I hope if I do, I have some driving time under my belt, because he is going to have to take the wheel because I am likely to run off the road if it happens to me! And I feel better because when you said the part about everybody being different and losing the conviction and falling back into a rut....well, that made me feel like maybe I was not a big fake and phony. Feel like that is what people in the rooms who know me --well not all of them, but some of them--think of me that way. All I know is I can't control that. I sure am so very grateful for this board and you folks who are still "talking" to me and I feel at home here,

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

During the first several years of my sobriety I lived in southern California, and in nearly all of the meetings that I went to down there, in addition to reading the first part of chapter five 'How it Works", they also read the first two pages of Chapter three "More About Alcoholism". I became very familiar with the information in those two pages. It's extremely important stuff. It tells all about the peculiar form of insanity that is at the center of alcoholism - the insanity of that first drink - the problem is not just that I experience cravings for more alcohol once I get the first drink in me, but that even when I do NOT have any alcohol in my brain, if I am left to my own devices, my own self will, and unaided by a contact with a higher power, I can once again fall victim to the insane obsession with finding some way, some how, to drink successfully, when every bit of evidence has made it clear that this is impossible and that I need to be finding some way, some how, to NOT drink successfully.

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

I am going to read all this over for the next few days in addition to my BB reading. I just have to get it in my head this time! And I love how you put it, Dave, especially that last part........about the even if I don't have any alcohol left in my brain, and being left to my own devices. I did have that insane obsession to drink successfully and I do need to find some way, some how NOT to drink successfully.
(Maybe I can just type everything you and Pappy post so it will help it "stick" ???)

MarcLacroix · Senior Member

There is some helpful stuff in this thread:
//aa.activeboard.com/t61613933/outside-issue-regarding-trolls/

Marc

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

Trolls? You think my posts fit that category, Marc?
I'm sorry.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

We see things as we are. Not as they are.

I'd bet the farm he's not implying you're a troll. Xo hugs my friend.

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

Thanks so much jad! I need to remember that.

Still too sensitive.....
I need to spend my time trying to figure out my own crazy.

MarcLacroix · Senior Member

More Info here:
aa.activeboard.com/t61503562/the-4th-dimension/

leavetherest · MIP Old Timer

Marc,
I have tried to be really very nice to you. I feel really very sorry for a man in his 60's, who claims to have 20 years of sobriety and acts like you do. It is really very sad. While others are on here trying to help other others, you seem to derive some kind of pathetic pleasure trying to put other alcoholics down and trying to cause discord.
I'll pray for you, however, I will not interact with you on this board anymore. I have to stay sober and you and your silly little flying saucer will not have any affect on me.

MarcLacroix · Senior Member

Whatever... This Too shall pass. :)