Lately we've been discussed on the board other methods and approaches people have in doing AA. What do you all think of the idea of working the program and the Steps without actually attending meetings?
I mean if you have a "sponsor" who has many years sober and understands addiction or someone that you can call anytime night or day for support.
I mentioned before about newcomers in AA having relapse triggered by constant talk of alcohol in meetings and hearing the war stories. Not to mention having to listen to the "sob stories".
In addition, if severe anxiety is also an issue.
If you have support and are committed and do the Steps (and maybe frequent this board regularly), do you think it could be a good idea to do AA without the meetings?
-- Edited by Jakamo on Saturday 30th of January 2016 02:54:05 PM
If you have support and are committed and do the Steps (and maybe frequent this board regularly), do you think it could be a good idea to do AA without the meetings?
-- Edited by Jakamo on Saturday 30th of January 2016 02:54:05 PM
Sure. It could be a good idea to do AA without the meetings.
Gotta have a good reason for not going to meetings, though. Can't have a petty or unhealthy reason for avoiding AA's primary conduit of program info, instruction, inspiration and sharing of stories by alcoholics.
If the reason for cutting out a major structural component of the AA program is simply a shallow and juvenile avoidance of F2F participation, then it's no good.
Lots of people have had to forego meetings for substantial amounts of time due to circumstances beyond their control, like being stationed at some remote location with no access to AA meetings. Doesn't mean it is a good idea to do this intentionally and when it could be avoided. These people typically report later that it was a very difficult experience and they feel lucky that they survived it with their sobriety intact.
Alcoholism is cunning, baffling and powerful. It will very often try to make us convince ourselves that we ought to do something that really just puts a roadblock in our own path unnecessarily and makes it more difficult for us to stay sober and truly recover from alcoholism. We come up with reasons for procrastinating on working the steps, or for hanging out in places that make us want to drink, etc. It's certainly not unusual at all for an alcoholic in sobriety to get the idea that there is something about themselves that would make it a good idea for them to not attend AA meetings. Almost without exception, the truth is that this is nothing more than our alcoholism doing what it does - lying to us and setting us up for a relapse.
If your alcoholism is anything like mine, your own mind lies to you. Often, and loudly. It's one of the basic components of the condition. Recognize it and take contrary action.
Sure. It could be a good idea to do AA without the meetings.
Gotta have a good reason for not going to meetings, though. Can't have a petty or unhealthy reason for avoiding AA's primary conduit of program info, instruction, inspiration and sharing of stories by alcoholics.
If the reason for cutting out a major structural component of the AA program is simply a shallow and juvenile avoidance of F2F participation, then it's no good.
Yeah, like I mentioned, severe anxiety.
The whole meeting my main thought is "Please don't ask me to share. Please don't ask me to share". And if they do and I say "No thanks" I feel like I'm not contributing and worry what people are thinking of me. I know it's kinda stupid and illogical, but that's just how my mind works. I also worry about having to hold a stranger's hand during the Serenity Prayer.
The thing I like about this board is that I get good advice, as opposed to sharing and everyone just saying "Thanks Jake".
I feel that when I was new in AA I would not have been able to stay sober that way. And I don't think I could have found anyone who would be willing to sponsor me if I told them I wasn't going to meetings.
I had severe anxiety too....so much so that I was unable to go grocery shopping--fear of people--and would leave my basket with food in it in an aisle and have to leave the store--crying.
I had to force myself to overcome some of that anxiety when it came to attending meetings.......I looked at it this way...."I can deal with my fear of people and anxiety.....I can deal with fear of sharing, hand holding, hugging and just being around these people....I just cannot deal with drinking myself to death."
As I said, I don't attend meetings as much now. I'm fine. I used to get squirrley, angry, etc. and thought I had to attend a meeting to feel better. I turn all those emotions over to God now. Since I didn't have much faith at all before, again, I do not feel like I could have gotten sober without the meetings.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Saturday 30th of January 2016 07:20:03 PM
I Reckon , with alcoholics , it's me , me , me & Only ME .
Yep . So far up their own Ass , they are out of site .
Yep , lose sight of everything & No insight .
So when they have a chance of recovery & a moment of insight ,
sometimes called "a moment of clarity", they see everything for what it is .
They Are Given the GIFT of sobriety , had the older sober members not rocked up to
meetings & continued to "Give their gift" to me . I would not be able to "pass it on" to you .
For me . I Keep coming back to meetings , to say Thank you for giving me this gift .
__________________
Rick.
@ 37 I was too young & good looking to be an alkie.
still too young , still got th good looks. still n alkie.
------------
Rick wrote earlier post:
"right about th judge bit LTR
I have been a Sailor - 6yrs Royal Australian Navy
& 44yrs Long distant Truck Driver.
I AIN'T been appointed a judge - Y.E.T."
------------
Rick.....apparently, your "vocation" changed to "judge" within the last few hours.
There are lots of ways to "give back". I come to this board everyday and help other alcoholics and there are ways to give back to others not just alcoholics who share this world with me. That is what God wants me to do. But then again, maybe I cannot "see" too well with my head up my ass....your Honor.
And I sure do not need to come here, trying to help others, only to continue to be insulted. This board keeps getting smaller and smaller and hopefully someday someone is going to figure out why that is so.
-- Edited by leavetherest on Saturday 30th of January 2016 11:37:49 PM
The whole meeting my main thought is "Please don't ask me to share. Please don't ask me to share". And if they do and I say "No thanks" I feel like I'm not contributing and worry what people are thinking of me. I know it's kinda stupid and illogical, but that's just how my mind works. I also worry about having to hold a stranger's hand during the Serenity Prayer.
Jakamo, since you did ask, I'll be direct with you. I remember those feelings from early sobriety very well. And yes, they can be quite uncomfortable and unpleasant.
But those things are just not a legitimate reason to not go to meetings.
I was very uncomfortable in meetings at first. Frankly, I was downright scared. But I kept going anyway and I made an effort to find the meetings that were best for me, by going to a lot of different meetings, and when I found a few people that I 'clicked' with, I asked them what other meetings they liked best and I tried those meetings too. Eventually I had a regular schedule of meetings that I really liked, where I was able to feel comfortable and could relax a lot more and pay attention to the message and not be so fearful about being asked to speak and not being so preoccupied with worrying about what people thought about me.
Some of this stuff is not comfortable, especially at first. All I can do is encourage you to do it anyway. It's worth it.
It's not merely being "uncomfortable" or "unpleasant" as you have characterized your own experience.
I have a severe anxiety disorder.
Believe me, it's legitimate. I have been through all sorts of testing and been diagnosed many times. I'm getting all sorts of help for this but in the meantime I'm doing what I can currently handle without having a full-blown attack.
You said you were "downright scared". "Scared" is nothing compared to what I experience. And I'm sorry to say this and I don't mean to be a dick, but that "If I can do it you can do it" sh!t does nothing for me in this situation, and it's not your decision to decide what's a legitimate reason for me if you don't know me.
Thank you for trying to help though.
-- Edited by Jakamo on Sunday 31st of January 2016 01:59:55 AM
What happens when you attend meetings? Do you experience debilitating symptoms which put your health at risk, like actual panic attacks?
Or do you simply feel very uncomfortable and worry about what people are thinking of you?
When you say this:
"The whole meeting my main thought is "Please don't ask me to share. Please don't ask me to share". And if they do and I say "No thanks" I feel like I'm not contributing and worry what people are thinking of me. I know it's kinda stupid and illogical, but that's just how my mind works. I also worry about having to hold a stranger's hand during the Serenity Prayer."
...That sounds like normal social anxiety, and it is not the same as saying "I have a diagnosed disorder which makes it medically inadvisable for me to attend meetings".
If your doctor is telling you that attending meetings is actually going to be harmful to you and therefore you shouldn't do it, then you should follow your doctors advice. If your doctor is not telling you that, then it's not likely that people in AA (or anyone else, for that matter) will tell you it's a good idea for an alcoholic to choose to not go to meetings.
And my doctor is helping me gradually get to the point where I can attend meetings without this happening. It's a process.
I just stated that it was not just feeling "uncomfortable", and I mentioned my severe anxiety, but you deleted that from your quote and just fixated on the parts you felt you could (insensitively) pull apart. You've done this before. No, I did not go into all the physical symptoms I feel because I don't feel the need to prove anything to you.
-- Edited by Jakamo on Sunday 31st of January 2016 05:13:33 AM
and it's not as if my doctor can sit with me through meetings and monitor how I'm doing and then tell me whether or not it's "medically inadvisable for me to attend meetings". I have to monitor my own behavior and relate it back. I very rarely am able to make it through an entire meeting. My doctor is a specialized chemical dependency doctor and completely understands this and is helping me every step of the way.
The fact that you're trying to find away to stay sober tells me you are serious about this disease ... even with the serious anxiety disorder ... I think some of us have been a little 'stern' with our comments here because so many times, we see those who are simply uncomfortable in the AA meet'n setting ... and all it 'usually' amounts to is 'at first' we just don't like it and hate to admit this is where we belong if we really want to recover ... I found hundreds of excuses to not go to a meeting, many you have already brought out, but it was my disease simply tell'n me to go get a drink instead...
I'm convinced you have a serious medical issue that is far worse than most of us have come'n into AA ... your persistence come'n here and try'n to fig'r out what to do is evidence of that to me ... I could be wrong ...
Meet'ns is where the miracle happens and that is why you've received some pretty tuff replies I think ... cause nearly all of us had some difficulty accepting we needed help and this was our last resort for get'n well ... and we had to get over some pretty high 'barriers' to find sobriety ... But, I think you can work 'your' program as best you can, read'n the BB and 12 'n 12, Living Sober, etc. and work with a sponsor, if you can find one that will work with directly without meet'ns and do just find ... it totally depends on your commitment to the program ... "everyone is different" ... It Can Be Done ...
Love ya man and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Thanks for your understanding and compassion Pappy (and Tanin and LTR too). You've helped put things in perspective. Obviously it's a bit off-putting when I come here for helpful advice and someone who doesn't know me and isn't a doctor is trying to argue about the severity of my condition. Repeatedly quoting one part of one post and ignoring everything else, but he did this to me in another thread as well. I guess I just need to pick and choose my advice and ignore (leave) the rest. I have only been here 9 or 10 days.
And I hope my thread didn't actually lead to a 3+ year member to leave the site. Yikes!
Handle this thread with care, it is volatile.
LOL Jake, ... yeah, we have our 'ups' and 'downs' here just like any other web site of this nature, but the main goal is to 'give back', to 'new-comers' and those who are struggling to work the program, the help we received when we ourselves first came to AA for help ... (your post is not responsible for force'n anyone to leave, that's their problem) ... (and they'll deal with it on their own) ...
We sometimes forget to have/give the 'patience' and 'tolerance' most of us received when we started recovery ...
No matter, your questions are always welcome here and if we can assist you in stay'n sober, good, we can share what worked for us ... and it ain't always exactly the same way either ... All we can do is TRY ...
Keep Come'n Back and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Jakamo, please understand that everything I have said and asked in my replies to you has been done to encourage you to be sure that you are being completely honest with yourself so that you can really make the best decision for yourself. You're right, we DON'T know you, and that's why I'm bringing up these possibilities, which often, but not always, prove to be the case. It's because the rest of us have no way of knowing if you are really:
A) UNABLE to go to meetings due to legitimate reasons and are seeking help to stay sober anyway, or
B) ABLE, but UNWILLING to go to meetings and are seeking the approval of others to support this choice.
Only YOU can really know this, and even YOU can't really know this unless you can be sure that you are being rigorously honest with yourself and with certain key people like your doctor and your sponsor. And that is not easy for any of us to do in early sobriety. So I am trying to encourage you to be sure that you are doing this, so you make the right choice, based on the truth. I hope this clarifies what I was attempting to convey to you.
All I have to say, Jakamo, is don't drink. No matter what. Drinking can temporarily relieve anxiety, but, in the long run, it makes it way worse. Meetings or no meetings, stay sober however you can. How long have you been sober? Your anxiety could be caused by years of drinking. Drinking screws your brain up bad, and for some, it takes years to heal.
Give it time. See your doctor. Go to a meeting when you feel comfortable. Just stay away from that poison.
My anxiety has been a lifelong problem. Most likely from childhood trauma (blah blah blah)
Long story short, my anxiety is the main cause of my drinking more than drinking causing my anxiety. However when quitting a substance there's usually some "Post-Acute Withdrawal Syndrome" (sometimes abbreviated as PAWS) that can cause or add to the anxiety as well as other symptoms.
AA without the Meetings is difficult to to. Meetings provide a setting which forums cannot provide.
One on One can be done via E-Mail but chatting over coffee at a Denny's is tough to beat. :)
Jakamo, please understand that everything I have said and asked in my replies to you has been done to encourage you to be sure that you are being completely honest with yourself so that you can really make the best decision for yourself. You're right, we DON'T know you, and that's why I'm bringing up these possibilities, which often, but not always, prove to be the case. It's because the rest of us have no way of knowing if you are really:
A) UNABLE to go to meetings due to legitimate reasons and are seeking help to stay sober anyway, or
B) ABLE, but UNWILLING to go to meetings and are seeking the approval of others to support this choice.
Only YOU can really know this, and even YOU can't really know this unless you can be sure that you are being rigorously honest with yourself and with certain key people like your doctor and your sponsor. And that is not easy for any of us to do in early sobriety. So I am trying to encourage you to be sure that you are doing this, so you make the right choice, based on the truth. I hope this clarifies what I was attempting to convey to you.
Example of directive style of AA.
As opposed to the descriptive approach, favored mightily by the prominent writings of AA, including the Big Book and the Twelve & Twelve...
My god, this place is like a lunatic asylum! Jakamo, I know exactly where you are coming from. I've suffered from debilitating anxiety and panic attacks for 30 years. I firmly believe it's the main reason I became an alcoholic. Someone who hasn't had the pleasure to live with this condition will tell you, "just suck it up, it's in your head" "you're not gonna die". Do what you can, try to get to meetings, I sat in the back near the door and left quite a few meetings midway when I was freaking out. It got easier as I got to know the people at my daily meetings, but it's never easy. I've been on medication for it most of my life, which I took a lot of flack for when I mentioned it at a meeting. I came to AA to get and stay sober, not to get medical advice on my psychiatric disorders.
My god, this place is like a lunatic asylum! Jakamo, I know exactly where you are coming from. I've suffered from debilitating anxiety and panic attacks for 30 years. I firmly believe it's the main reason I became an alcoholic. Someone who hasn't had the pleasure to live with this condition will tell you, "just suck it up, it's in your head" "you're not gonna die".
I think that most AA's would NOT say this. Probably just the fundamentalist ones would.
I wouldn't.
chris wrote:
I've been on medication for it most of my life, which I took a lot of flack for when I mentioned it at a meeting. I came to AA to get and stay sober, not to get medical advice on my psychiatric disorders.
Real AA's don't give people flack for taking medication that is needed and properly prescribed and administered. Real AAs stay away from giving other members medical advice unless they are qualified to give it.
My god, this place is like a lunatic asylum! Jakamo, I know exactly where you are coming from. I've suffered from debilitating anxiety and panic attacks for 30 years. I firmly believe it's the main reason I became an alcoholic. Someone who hasn't had the pleasure to live with this condition will tell you, "just suck it up, it's in your head" "you're not gonna die". Do what you can, try to get to meetings, I sat in the back near the door and left quite a few meetings midway when I was freaking out. It got easier as I got to know the people at my daily meetings, but it's never easy. I've been on medication for it most of my life, which I took a lot of flack for when I mentioned it at a meeting. I came to AA to get and stay sober, not to get medical advice on my psychiatric disorders.
I KNOW I CANNOT DO THIS ALONE I WROTE MY FOUTH AND FIFTH STEP AND FIRST TIME EVER I DID IT AND I DISCOVERED THINGS ABOUT MYSELF I Never knew were there! ALSO Wrote the third step prayer down !
Welcome to MIP catsmom3, ... Glad you found us and glad you're here ... for me, the speaker tapes help me tremendously ... in early recovery, I went through tons of them and then listened to 5 or 6 over and over and over ... they helped provide a more solid sober foundation for me ... they 'filled in the gaps' so to speak ...
So I highly recommend them for everyone ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
