I'm glad I was told to "Shut Up" which was followed by "...because you don't know anything about being sober"". Which was true and I rarely argued with the truth unless I had been drinking and my ego was raging. Shut up went after my ego and AA went after my drinking. It worked out well for me thank God. Keep coming back ((((Hugs))))
Telling a newcomer to shut up, when AA unambiguously professes to be an organization of equals, is a clear contradiction of principles. Telling someone in AA to shut up always takes advantage of a power differential in an unjustifiable manner with likely negative psychological cconsequences. Claiming such a differential is specifically prohibited in AA.
This is why telling someone to shut up is not in the Big Book, as it would be, if such were truly an essential part of the program of Alcoholics Anonymous.
In my experience, it seems that a few, and only a few, AA members (who survive in the program) favor being told to shut up. Maybe they are right to think so--but their experience should not be generalizable to the vast majority of AA members.
Zoom, you have the total right to believe that being told to shut up is good for you. But I don't see the justification anyone could use to say it is good for others. Nor can I find a justification for saying that telling an AA to shut up is part of the program that a bunch of drunks were inspired to cobble together in the 1930s.
I used to have this wicked fast speedboat. I had a sticker on the console in front of the front passenger seat, it said "sit down, shut up, and hold on". I think its a little saying that has been used before. (They prolly stole the idea from my boat)
I used to have this wicked fast speedboat. I had a sticker on the console in front of the front passenger seat, it said "sit down, shut up, and hold on". I think its a little saying that has been used before. (They prolly stole the idea from my boat)
Seems like that's a different context, BL. Here's the correct context:
Today I went to a meeting that is usually populated by almost all longtimers. Recently, Dana started coming to the meeting. She is newly back in AA after a 4 year relapse with a 17-year run of sobriety before that. She's got about 4 weeks. Dana shares about a rough day yesterday, which included family, money and work issues. The day ended with her adult son leaving a half bottle of wine on the kitchen counter, in direct violation of Dana's instructions not to bring any alcohol into her house.
Dana described how she wanted to drink that half bottle. And more. But she did not do so. She instead fought off the impulse and decided to go to a meeting and share about the event.
Shara also shared, for about two or 3 minutes. She has maybe a week and she is having a difficult time with thoughts about drinking. She related how she was asking God for help and that it was working so far but that she was worried about the future. She went to the meeting to listen and share, even though she didn't know how she would get home. She had to ask for ride in a group of strangers.
I got a lot out of what Dana and Shara said and the reality they shared. So, it seemed, did the other attendees.
I did not tell Dana or Shara to "shut up."
Neither did anyone else tell them to do so, even though the meeting was mostly 20 and 30 year folks.
That's because AA does not support AA members to tell other member's to "shut up." AA specifically advises against such nonsense.
I would not tell Dr. Bob to "shut up." Nor would I tell Dana and Shara to "shut up." Doing so is not AA. It's something other than AA. Maybe it's about a speedboat. But not AA.
i don't think it's meant literally. I think it's more of a way of saying "you should listen, cause your best thinking is what got you here". I don't think anybody who was sharing an experience was told to "shut up" in a meeting. But maybe, if somebody was talking about their own way of how to get sober, and it wasn't jiving with the gist of the program, then maybe they need to be told do a little more listening.
i don't think it's meant literally. I think it's more of a way of saying "you should listen, cause your best thinking is what got you here". I don't think anybody who was sharing an experience was told to "shut up" in a meeting. But maybe, if somebody was talking about their own way of how to get sober, and it wasn't jiving with the gist of the program, then maybe they need to be told do a little more listening.
Now shut up, Tanin.
It most certainly is meant literally. See a couple of the posts above.
Some meetings across th AA network are even formally set up to prohibit newcomers from sharing at all.The kind of thinking that causes "shut up" philosophizing is something that Bill W. fought against until passed on. With limited success, unfortunately.For some, the temptation to dominate weakened, desperate people is just too strong, I think. And the people who get driven away from the program because of it don't have a voice in the matter. It's pretty much a closed system.
Closed systems degrade, they lose vitality and ability to adapt. Have you seen AA membership numbers lately, BL?
I read a mere 2% of those who 'make it' actually live the spiritual life to its fullest human potential. No idea how one could measure. I personally feel I could never be one of 'the 2%'. But it does explain the prevelence of such word choices as shut up. Some will never find the freedom in setting their own limits... and striving to change self instead of others. That limited potential for some humans is probably still better than living drunken... maybe... maybe not though.
With love xxxx
__________________
Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Well, Tanin, you're right, that probably would drive some people away. The room I go to Isnt like that. Anybody can raise their hand and share. Our room has about 8-10 meetings a day, about 30 people on average for each one.
I don't go but once every couple of weeks. (I live about an hour from my home room. I'll be moving back up there for a couple of months to do some work, the room will only be 15 minutes away, and I'll go a lot more often).
Yer probably right, though, about the control thing. Some people are just like that. A lot of people in the fellowship have lost their family and friends through drinking. Now, they don't have anybody to push around and belittle to make themselves feel superior and relevant in this world.
But you know what? It's like that everywhere, not just in AA rooms. I generally like people, and I try to be nice to everyone I meet. But the truth is, human beings have a lot of bad qualities, narcissism, honesty issues, always looking out for number 1, stepping on anybody in their way, and insecurities that make them lash out so they can be percieved as strong and dominate and in control. Some people just have problems. And some people are just assholes, plain and simple.. Add alcoholism to all of that, and you're not going to be dealing with a reasonable, likable person.
Most of the people in my home room are pretty nice, and they're there to help themselves and help others. Yeah, there's a few jerk-offs, and I'm not supposed to judge, but I reckon they don't have a strong program. If they did, they wouldn't be like that.
