I was applying for a life insurance policy and they ask all sorts of questions including ones about alcohol/drugs. I told the truth because they said "do you drink?" and then "have you ever...?" So, even after 6 plus years sober, they come back to me with that they want me to pay a higher rate due to my alcoholism. They don't even care that I have borderline high cholesterol and crappy triglycerides. WTF? A-holes.
P.S. - not that mad in actuality, but annoyed.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Yes I feel your pain. It's all about risk and statistics. I know as a Paramedic we pay higher health insurance rates cause we are in a higher risk pool never the mind alcoholism. Yes sometimes being too honest can make a situation worse. There are a lot of stereotypes regaurding alcoholism and most people are way less informed about the true nature of the disease. I've often had instances were I've been sober and asked this question and have answered no. I know not everyone needs to know about my alcoholism and would first ask who is it harming including myself. The program demands rigorous honesty but to what expense? This is a good topic for discussion .
Sorry for you dilemma,,that part stinks..Congratulations on Your Honesty,,the antidote to our diseased thinking....Like it is said,The TRUTH will set us free,but it may first make us angry..Be blessed brother..........
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Depending on the circumstances, I usually just say "I choose not to answer that question" ... thereby choosing not to incriminate myself ...
I answered yes to the 'smoking' question last year on an insurance questionnaire and it cost me an additional $100 per month for coverage ... If I'd have lied, they wouldn't have covered me if I wound up with lung cancer ... oh well ... I ended up with prostate cancer instead, LOL ...
I had a sponsor once that had an attack of 'total honesty' with his taxes ... he went to the local IRS office to show them how he cheated on taxes and came clean with them ... he's saved several thousand dollars to pay off what he owed them ... talk about making amends!!! ... he told me it was worth every penny to have his 'peace of mind' back ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I believe in meeting people where they're at. It's respectful of their potential for today. I do the same with newcomers. More information than they are capable of processing in a meaningful way does them no favors. The truth is... words have very little meaning but can hold mountains of harm to self if I am not driven first and foremost as a child of God above and beyond all else including insurance companies ;)
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Pink you can handle this. You've done the work to be able to handle this and more. I like StPete's suggestion. Insurance is about risk taking on their parts and ours. You'll get past it cause you are already. Have a great holiday.
I learned the hard way that I never put on anything that I'm a recovering alcoholic. I've been self-employed most of my life, and have been denied insurance policies (life and health) because of it and the fact that I am a former smoker. My doctors are aware that I'm an alcoholic, but it's not written in my charts anywhere, it just says "does not drink alcohol". The insurance system in this country is ridiculously broken.
I learned the hard way that I never put on anything that I'm a recovering alcoholic. I've been self-employed most of my life, and have been denied insurance policies (life and health) because of it and the fact that I am a former smoker. My doctors are aware that I'm an alcoholic, but it's not written in my charts anywhere, it just says "does not drink alcohol". The insurance system in this country is ridiculously broken.
I have heard several wise and longtimer AAs express very similar opinions.
My view is that AA is somewhat pragmatic about certain issues. You see explicit examples of this in the 12 & 12 and the Big Book.
The founders of AA stressed honesty a great deal. But they and our literature allow for some real world-accomodating interpretations of the program. We all sign up for the program. But it shouldn't be a suicide pact. Bill W. was careful about that.It's tricky, though. A sponsor is quite useful with the kind of problem posted about here.
It's bad to get a resentment about such situations and bitch about it. It's somewhat worse to get a resentment about it and say you don't have one.
When there is hopelessness, that is the greatest tragedy. But being a part of... one of... joining in the 'all' of us is perhaps the most beautiful thing in the world. It's the ability to share self - share the journey - have the willingness to put it out there - do it badly - fail - fall - self depreciate....
only then... do we get the chance to find peace within - see that we are all in this together - learn what doesn't work - find pride in reviving from failure - get up - grow inner strength - and accept the truth about who we are.... no better or worse.
The greatest pride in life - is in the reviving.
The farther down the scale we have gone - or the greater the obstacle in life, the more chance we have for an outstanding revival.
It is a gift - a treasure - the reason I can say, I am grateful for all of it... all of my life. It was worth it, and I would do it a million times again...
There is no such thing as better or worse - there is only learning.
The ego rules sometimes, it's only natural... it entices us into believing it's deceptions.
Without the experience of it, we could not know the joy that comes when we acquire enough awareness to be relieved of it.
The greatest pity, is lack of awareness about who we really are. Equal. There is no better or worse. There is no such thing. We pray for those who can not see - who have yet to acquire awareness - they can not know what they don't know... we treat them like a sick friend. We embrace the opportunity to revive our true selves, and overcome our own shortcomings. We offer them unconditional love, acceptance and forgiveness - the greatest and only true gifts we have to offer anyone... and by offering this, we show that we believe. In a Higher power, in ourselves... and so in them. In all of us. When we access this truth about ourselves, we feel true, honest - transparent about who we really are, and we transcend worldly desire, ego, cravings and character flaws. It feels good. The way our all loving HP would wish for us to feel. Loved.
xxoxoxoxoo
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I think it turned out to be 8 dollars a month more. Not that big a deal but it was kind of an eye opener. Thus far honesty is an overall pattern that has worked to my favor - as has being up front with people.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
It's bad to get a resentment about such situations and bitch about it. It's somewhat worse to get a resentment about it and say you don't have one.
Hahahaha! Pot. Kettle. Black. 5 year long resentment made obvious by sniping comments while hiding behind not sharing anything personal out of insecurity that others might do the same back to you.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Not by me. I think I may have deleted 3 posts of yours ever and they had nothing to do with your story. So as long as this post was about honesty. Dont lie.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Not by me. I think I may have deleted 3 posts of yours ever and they had nothing to do with your story. So as long as this post was about honesty. Dont lie.
Pinkchip, you truly appear to be going on the attack with a member here that is not and has not been provoked at all by that member. You have already lost your moderator status because of how you have handled things on this board as well as another, got yourself banned from the other board, and from what I am seeing here, you are pushing the envelope of setting the stage for the same thing happening here.
PC, I just tried to PM you with words of encouragement. Apparently that function is somehow shut off. Not sure why. Did you turn it off or was it turned off? Kind of concerned because I have been purposely avoiding the site but lurking to support the old friends from the old days, and the concern lies with the odd tone emanating from the site. It is a good site, the best out there. The problem is that even though it is the best, it does not mean it's always fair, and even good programs can skew off course. I really "honestly" feel that John's airing of dirty laundry in the above post was wrong. So John, if you are going to remove PC, just remove me as well. Tanin is a good contributor, and I do not doubt his commitment to the program, however to ignore PC's side of the story or what he feels, should be worked out in a mature way. I have had run ins with Tanin in the past, and due to those, I simply check in on occasion, and for my own sobriety, I choose to avoid this site, which should be uplifting--or at least a FAIR place to work through life, while daily learning to live with our disease. I understand PC's perspective, and it is a given that there will be disagreements, but to out of hand dismiss one of those perspectives is simply not fair. That is my two cents.
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
Blessings of this day............I went into PC'S WHITEBOARD ALSO and noticed his account was "DELETED"(most accounts say ACTIVE) i ALSO TRIED TO pm HIM...NOT SURE IF HE LEFT OR JOHN DELETED HIM,,NOT SURE HOW THAT WORKS HERE.i WILL PRAY THEIR IS RESOLUTION HERE .This is not the ROOMS,,so things may work diFferrently here? dURING MY 30 YEARS in daily recovery, i HAVE CERTAINLY WATCHED MANY DISAGREEMENTS COME TO A HEAD but again that was "in" the rooms...............In prayer for all...............
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
As information to anyone who may be interested, PC's last post above was made late Saturday. My last post above in response was early Sunday. I noticed then that the status on PC's profile was "Deleted." This was a few hours prior to John's post. This is an indication that PC removed himself from this forum voluntarily. (As opposed to his departure from another forum on MIP.)
I also noticed that about 15 posts had been deleted Saturday night/Sunday morning from the forum count. This is unusual. I do not know which posts were deleted.
Seems like some stuff was going on in the background and on the other MIP forum.
Thanx Tanin....... I am active on the other Narcotics Anonymous MIP site and there is never much interaction on that site except for a few regulars that I have shared ESH with for last 6 years or so..I kind of followed the trail here afterward myself,...... and wish "ALL" ONE LOVE..................I will look for future re-entry from Mark if that is "his" choice...
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Np, Mike. I haven't gone over to the NA forum here in a long time. But some members here populate the Al-anon forum also. After the imbroglio, will pinkchip come back?
I still remember my first job in recovery where I was rigorously honest on the paperwork, including the alcohol, arrest, institutions, etc.. My manager read it, then tore it up. He told me this was not their business, what I wrote would follow me the rest of my life, I'm starting with a new slate, let it stay that way.
All my "activities" were from when I was a juvenile and got the job from an placement program. (Back when the Federal Government actually funded money for rehabilitation instead of punishment).
Three decades later I'm still thankful for that advise.
This is pinkchip. I am fine guys. I needed time to reflect. Sorry for any posts I made in anger or frustration here, especially to you tanin. It was not demonstrating good recovery on my part. Anyhow. Sorry I deleted myself without a goodbye. You guys helped me get sober years ago, have steered me down better paths when i was making mistakes, and deserve better.
WE CONTINUED TO TAKE PERSONAL INVENTORY AND WHEN WE ARE WRONG WE PROMPTLY ADMITTED IT.........Good to see ya brother.....Each day in Recovery is an opportunity to remain teachable and to do whatever it takes to remain free from active addiction...WELCOME BACK MARK and thanx for the help today...........
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
That dang spiritual axiom! Being all bitter and angry is no way to live on a daily basis. I used to not be able to see my way out of negative mood states and resentments. And yes Mike, there is a lesson for me to be learned in everything. As long as I stay sober and keep with the program, pretty much all things that happen to me are going to be learned from.
This site here isn't about me or anyone else specifically. It's about AA. Who benefits by me acting or being all mortally wounded? Pshaw. Nobody.
I still remember my first job in recovery where I was rigorously honest on the paperwork, including the alcohol, arrest, institutions, etc.. My manager read it, then tore it up. He told me this was not their business, what I wrote would follow me the rest of my life, I'm starting with a new slate, let it stay that way. All my "activities" were from when I was a juvenile and got the job from an placement program. (Back when the Federal Government actually funded money for rehabilitation instead of punishment). Three decades later I'm still thankful for that advise.
Rigorous honesty can be taken too far in the real world of business and legalities. Insurance, IRS issues, and job applications can be what AA literature calls "razor-edged question[s]" which demand careful and pragmatic consideration. And a "rigidly righteous" approach may hurt a recovering AA and his/her family.
Getting a "new slate" may be just what God wants for us if it can be rationalized within the precepts of AA, the law and moral and ethical concerns. But this is fraught with opportunities for deceit or error. AA allows some space in which to negotiating such issues. AA is not a suicide pact. No extra points are earned by working the program as if it were.
The Ghost of Tipsy wrote:
I still believe that some untruths are a necessity in order to function in our modern world.
You may well be right. AA, it seems to me, has no prohibition against what we sometimes call "white lies" when dealing with certain "modern world " systems.
