This has been something that has been bugging me for a couple of days and would love to get some feed-back.
I personally don't care for the saying "Stick with the Winners" because I have never understood what, exactly, it means.
Who represents the winners???? who are they, and if they are the winners, then who are the losers????
I personally believe that anyone that has a desire to stop drinking, which automatically makes them a member of Alcoholic Anonymous. Anyone trying to get sober, using the steps to the best of their ability, is doing good.
I can only think of a few cases where I would not consider someone a winner, an example would be someone that was usinig this program, with an adjenda, like someone coming in, under false pretenses to say gain money or find a girlfriend, or any other devious motive.
Other than that, I cannot think on anyone else that would not be considered a winner. We are all winners, no matter if someone has 24 hours, 3 days, 3 weeks, etc, etc.
I have always considered the term "Winner" as just a strong judgement of another. And I thought this Program was teaching us to stop making judgements. (Critical judgements are hurtful, almost without exception) and so I really need some help with this.
I have decided for myself, when I hear the term, I will just ignore it, it does not serve a purpose in my life anyway, and it has almost always made me feel like I must be the opposite, a loser, when I hear the term, and that is not correct thinking on my part, because I do not feel anyoneis a loser in this program, so that would have to include me.
It is one of the sayings that's been around forever it seems, don't think it's in the Big Book or any other AA material I have ever read.
So your opinions would really be helpful, cus I don't get this ONE!
Toni, I'm kind of with you on this one. Though I don't think that the people who use the term mean to put down anyone else. I've heard the term 'double-winner' and 'triple winner' and I think,,, well,,, I don't know.. have to ask people who use it what they mean. But I don't use it myself,,, cuz to me it does imply that someone else is a loser. So I don't get offended by it,,, I just can't relate to it. I think of the phrase 'there but for the grace of God go I' when I see someone who might be labelled a 'loser'.
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
To me, an AA Winner is someone who has good recovery. Someone who shows up, not just f2f, but shows up for life on life's terms. A person who works the steps and sees the positives. Someone you know you can count on when things are tough. One who doesn't talk to others about what you've discussed or shared with them.....
My HG has got Old Timers who are still bitchin' about the same damn thing they were bitchin' about when I showed up 6 months ago. And from what I hear they were bitchin' long before then. Then there's those who if you tell them something, you better be prepared for it to be spread around and added to. And there's the ones who just like sitting on the pity pot all the time, every share. These are not necessarily "losers" but when it comes to recovery they do not fall into the "winner" catagory for me.......
Thanks for letting me share....
-- Edited by Doll at 23:28, 2006-02-12
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* We eventually realize that just as the pains of alcoholism had to come before sobriety, emotional turmoil comes before serenity. *
Toni, I just went up to search, typed in winner. Back in Sept. I ask the same thing , it's under "throwing out a topic" Sept.1... there were a lot of great replies.
I have a problem with that phrase also, but I've always had a soft spot in my heart for the underdog. I just don't like to judge others. I don't always know how far they have come, where they started, so how can I judge. I really miss the old timers who are gone now, the ones who saw me from the day I walked in the rooms, they really saw the bad and the ugly, and loved me anyway. Now if I have a ugly moment I get judged by the group, I am not a saint, still progress not perfection.
To me a winner is someone who keeps trying , one day at a time to stay sober. A winner is someone who, even though they may have gone back out....comes back and tries again. A winner is someone who stays sober for 24 hours.
Amanda, my understanding of double or triple winner is someone who qualifies for AA, Al-anon and ...or ACA, and some people would not consider that a winning situation. To some it probably sounds like a death sentence...but I'm still here and I qualify for them all. Thank God for these programs.
The real deal for me is does God think I'm a winner, that's all that really matters. As long as there is still life...there is still a chance.
hehehe, Rose,,, does God think I am a winner? My HP is the One who makes us winners by forgiveness and mercy, eh? wow,,, that could be a whole topic in itself. How it is God who counts us as winners. How God took this real capital LOSER and started guiding me through my days using this program. I remember when I first started the program, still taking it second by second,,, getting out my little black '24 hour a day' book. All these concepts were soo new to me.. amazing. I remember thinking, at one point that first year, that it was like Peter walking on the water. I could get past the stuff in my day as long as I didn't think how impossible it was, but kept my eyes on my Higher Power and His guidance. It is still all miracle to me.
amanda
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do your best and God does the rest, a step at a time
I too have a problem with any word or phrase which seems to put some in a good light and make others feel bad. I have dealt with being the "loser" all my life, for various reasons-I know how it feels to NOT be a "winner", so I hate a lot of the overly competitive terms used so much everywhere. At work I am a part of a "team"-it used to be called a "unit" but I guess that doesn't sound competitive and aggressive enough!
But I guess in AA, it is a phrase, kind of like I was told by one of the older members at my group-you can tell who knows their stuff and who doesn't if you observe a while. (I think he was advising me on picking a sponsor, and also choosing who to listen to when they share and who to ignore.) I also heard another guy say there are hypocrites in AA, and some there who go for the wrong reasons...well, I guess they are really just PEOPLE after all! Here I'd thought I'd found an earth-bound bunch of angels-sigh, what a letdown!:)
Anyway, I'm pretty new at all this, so I guess I get a lot of advice I don't yet understand-my group for the most part seems nice, caring, welcoming (at least to me) and I learn from their stories. Winners? I am still trying to figure out exactly what the steps mean, and just read the Big Book for the first time. I think anyone who has helped me so far is a winner-they made me want to come back, and I didn't want to show up at first! But the group impressed me, it felt like home... those who made sure I felt welcome, who introduced themselves before the first meeting started, who gave me my Big Book...to me, those are winners! But I don't like the implication there are losers, too...can't we get away from that? Outsiders probably think all in AA are losers, because they are alcoholics and/or addicts. So a label like winner or loser really seems out of place in AA-it is getting judgmental to me. And the lack of judging others is what I find great about AA. It frees a person to be honest, and that is what we need desperately.
I even kind of hate the idea of breaking my group into smoking and non-smoking when it seems too big (admittedly, Saturday about five folks didn't get to share due to a larger group and time running out). I don't like segregating people by labels even like smoker or not. (And I don't smoke, I'm a minority there! Smoke does bother me a little, but I still don't want to split up like that! It sounds sort of snooty and elitist to me! I wish some folks could just limit their talking-I still like the saying a minister at my church had about sermons, "if you don't strike oil after five minutes, quit boring!" Some at AA need to try that!)
But going with the winners, whoa, it does sound wrong for AA. Does it mean there is just one way to stay sober, and the "winner" is the one who does it perfectly?
One guy at my group has no faith in treatment centers, he says they did nothing for him. One guy at aftercare at the hospital I went for rehab says he beleives more in Promise Keepers than AA. Some people need drugs for depression or anxiety in addition to going to AA and/or rehab. I went to outpatient rehab-am I doomed to fail because I didn't do inpatient? Some do the steps in order, some don't. Is there just one way? I don't think so. AA just has the best plan and the greatest success, I think. Your odds are best with AA as part of your recovery.
I just see AA in general as a group of winners, OK? If you show up, work the steps honestly, and really care about your fellow alcoholics...whether you are an old timer or a newcomer, have been to detox/rehab or not, whatever step you are on, whatever God is to you...you are a winner. That's my opinion!
I knew u would bring this up. For whats it's worth (my opinion only)
Some Quotes
Ive been here 17 years doing the same thing day after day> What??? Not working a program!! If u were u'd be honest, sincere and dependable, wouldn't u??
When a person keeps mentioning the # of years he's got and how he got them. Did he forget about GOD?
I guess a winner is a person who works the PROGRAM OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS TO THE BEST OF HIS OR HER ABILITY ON A DAILY BASIS.
IF IT'S DAY ONE I'M POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL IS ENOUGH
I'N MY MIND U HAVE TO SPEAK A GOOD PROGRAM AND LIVE IT
i'M A RELAPSER AND ADMIT IT
MY BELIEF IS SOME PEOPLE WITH 1 IN THE PROGRAM HAVE MORE ON THE BALL THEN SOME OF THE SO CALLEED DEACONS
I KNOW A MAN WHO HAD 11 YEARS A LONG TIME AGO AND NOW HAS 3. HE HAS SOME OF THE BEST SOBERITY AROUND (WINNER) FOR TODAY
bb QUOTE
We realize that we only know a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning mediation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something that you haven't got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us.
Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny, May God bless you and keep you-----until then.
Wow, thank you all for your imput on this, what a cross section of ideas.
My best friend of 40 years, moved to Idaho, when I moved to south of California. She has a new big house, and rented a wing of this house to a woman, that after about three months, it was discovered that she was an active alcoholic. That was about one year ago, that she moved into my friends house. And my friend that is not an Alcoholic has really been struggling with this, all this time.
The woman goes in and out of AA, I have talked to her, and emailed her hundreds of times, my friend asked me if I would try to help her, and of course the answer was yes.
This poor woman has fought the disease of Alcoholism since early adulthood, she goes to meetings, read the book by Gorsky on Relapse prevention, read the AA Big Book, knows the steps, and continually Relapses. It has been very sad to watch this. I will continue to attempt to help her, whenever I hear from her.
So when I wrote the Post on what makes a Winner a winner, I had this woman in the back of my mind. I really do care so much about her, and know that her Recovery will depend on her Relationship with her HP, whom I choose to call God.
To me she represents the hundreds of thousands of Alcoholics that are still drinking or getting drunk, as I write this, and my thinking was along the lines of "How it Works" from Chapter 5 of the AA Big Book. "There are those of us that suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, they are not at fault, they seem to have been born that way. But they can and they do recover if they have the capacity to be honest"
The last thing I would ever call this woman, or anyone else still suffering from the Disease, and there are so many, they do not fit any catagory other than people that need our Prayers.
All of us that have been Blessed with the removal of the compulsion to drink, one day at a time, are all walking and talking Miracles, in my opinion.
So, I think I "got off track", because the saying "Stick with the winners" is only referring to people in this Program, it is not intended for those who have not been given their chance at Recovery, or that have yet to have had a "Spiritual Awakening", as a result of working these steps.
Thanks for all of your responses, it made me do a lot of thinking, and its only 5:30 a.m. here in California, so now I have to say a Prayer this morning, to help me stop thinking. i spent the day yesterday out having a great time with my Son in San Diego, and I was using that Active Meditation stuff that Rick wrote about yesterday, I was constantly pausing and letting my self be aware of that silent Center in ourselves, where there is no judgment, no thought, only silence, with God. And I do have to say if felt I received a big Dividend, when my son called me and one of the things he said was, "Wasn't it a great day, Mom"? - "Hum" Wonder why that happenen? any guesses??? Thank you all again, and hope everyone of you have a great day this Monday morning.
Toni