I had another good day today. Just ended it with a good beginners meeting. Somebody shared for 30 min then they picked a topic. Tonite was step nine. Heard the message and not anyone's mess. There was even laughter about out past transgressions. All right so here's a question. How does one truly know if they have surrendered to this program? I don't need it but I want it. I prayed to my HP to keep me sober, remove the obsession and help get me to a meeting since I'm powerless over booze. Then did third step prayer and said a few prayers to sick people in need. I helped three people today. I made sure I checked on HALT. I made a meeting tonite. Talked to another drunk on the phone from my home group. Now I'm talking to you. But most and first I did not drink what a blessing,
All right so here's a question. How does one truly know if they have surrendered to this program? I don't need it but I want it.
I'm not sure this is what you meant to say .... or maybe it is... (you said you don't need it, but want it)
They told me in every meeting: ... Our stories disclose in a general way what we used to be like, what happened, and what we are like now. If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps.
The moment I knew I had surrendered was when I made the decision to 'go to any length' to get it ... ... ... the flip side of this coin for me was certain death, and soon ... it's probably a little different for each of us ... and I NEEDED this program as only a dying man can ... I needed it like a drowning man needing a 'life preserver' ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
What I meant is a lot of people need this program. But you got to want it in order in order to stay sober. You have to want sobriety. The active drunk needs it but doesn't mean he's gonna get it, you have to want it.
Wow, I totally agree with PythonPappy. When I was willing to go to any length to get sober was an indication of surrender. And you couldn't do anything to keep me away from it. I also became very fearful of drinking, which was good because I never really had been before. But I agree, it's like grabbing a life preserver and holding on for dear life. Other indications are staying away from risky situations,... etc.
-- Edited by Hello its me on Friday 27th of June 2014 11:54:20 PM
All right so here's a question. How does one truly know if they have surrendered to this program?
Hey Enigma...I think the key phrase is...Two key phrases actually....
If you have decided you want what we have and are willing to go to any length to get it-then you are ready to take certain steps.
Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps,
Somewhere between those two lines...You have surrendered to this program.
What is a spiritual awakening Enigma?.....I think for me.....It was an entirely new way of thinking.....And relying on God's help.
Spiritual Experience
The terms spiritual experience and spiritual awakening are used many times in this book which, upon careful reading, shows that the personality change sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism has manifested itself among us in many different forms. Yet it is true that our first printing gave many readers the impression that these personality changes, or religious experiences, must be in the nature of sudden and spectacular upheavals. Happily for everyone, this conclusion is erroneous. In the first few chapters a number of sudden revolutionary changes are described. Though it was not our intention to create such an impression, many alcoholics have nevertheless concluded that in order to recover they must acquire an immediate and overwhelming God-consciousness followed at once by a vast change in feeling and outlook. Among our rapidly growing membership of thousands of alcoholics such transformations, though frequent, are by no means the rule. Most of our experiences are what the psychologist William James calls the educational variety because they develop slowly over a period of time. Quite often friends of the newcomer are aware of the difference long before he is himself. He finally realizes that he has undergone a profound alteration in his reaction to life; that such a change could hardly have been brought about by himself alone. What often takes place in a few months could seldom have been accomplished by years of self discipline. With few exceptions our members find that they have tapped an unsuspected inner resource which they presently identify with their own conception of a Power greater than themselves. Most of us think this awareness of a Power greater than ourselves is the essence of spiritual experience. Our more religious members call it God-consciousness. Most emphatically we wish to say that any alcoholic capable of honestly facing his problems in the light of our experience can recover, provided he does not close his mind to all spiritual concepts. He can only be defeated by an attitude of intolerance or belligerent denial. We find that no one need have difficulty with the spirituality of the program. Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery. But these are indispensable. There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance-that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
What I meant is a lot of people need this program. But you got to want it in order in order to stay sober. You have to want sobriety. The active drunk needs it but doesn't mean he's gonna get it, you have to want it.
AA is not for folks who need it ... it's not for folks who want it. It's for folks who DO IT.
I've found that over the years I'm the last one to realize what's happening.
Keep doing the Steps and following the oldtimers and your sponsor. You'll be fine.
All the best.
Bob R
-- Edited by 2granddaughters on Saturday 28th of June 2014 06:28:27 AM
There is personal story "My chance to live", it is said that "this program is for people who want it, not people who need it" and I'm agree with this, because there are so many alcoholics, who are dying of alcoholism and need so bad this Program and are told about the solution, but they don't want it or don't believe it can help.
Today I read Dr. Carl Jung's letter to Bill. And Carl Jung wrote that R. Hazard's craving for alcohol is spiritual thirst for wholeness, union with God. Which for me means that I can't fight battle, which is already lost. I can't fight alcohol or alcoholism with my own power, because I haven't got any power.
Bill writes:"Had this power originated in him? Obviously it had not. There had been no more power in him than there was in me at that minute, and this was none at all."
The Steps are spiritual Program, which I believe is to put all of my life in hands of God.
"But the program of action, though entirely sensible, was pretty drastic. It meant I would have to throw several lifelong conceptions out of the window. That was not easy. But the moment I made up my mind to go through with the process, I had the curious feeling that my alcoholic condition was relieved, as in fact it proved to be."
I think you know based on your actions in this 24 hours. The title of your post is apt. We can take our will back at any time. Hence, I think we show surrender by really being honest, open minded, and willing and showing it through our actions.
I think steps 1 - 3 are based around surrendering.
4-9 are based around change (but there is some surrender involved in doing a fearless inventory, telling someone else, being willing to change and work on defects of character, and also making amends)
and 10 -12 are based around maintenance.
So really working 1-3 continuously is good surrender - but also continuing to move forward in the other steps because surrender without change will leave you raw and without new coping skills to deal with the world and challenges that might upset you.
Anyhow, your actions for that day showed surrender and a life which embodies the steps and their principles. So for that 24 hours - you surrendered :)
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Here's exactly how I knew for a fact that I had completely surrendered to God:
It was when I found myself taking the actions of working the 12 Steps. At Step Three, I got down on my knees and said that Third Step Prayer. But, those were only my words. Once I got up off my knees, I put my words into action, and started working on my 4th Step inventory. And, from there, I kept on going to Step 12. I did this for only one reason: I was totally desperate.
Surrender is not just words. It is willing action.
For me, enigma, it happened when I stopped fighting the program so much and ceased thinking "I got this". I looked at others in the meetings who seemed happy, who shared not only the bad stuff they went through in their drinking days, they shared all the good things which they were grateful for as well. I listened and paid attention to those who learned from things they went through and who had changed as a result of working the program rather than just talking about the program and quoting stuff. (I have heard shares from members who said they had worked the steps and were still miserable and they didn't understand why.) I have had to force myself to go outside my comfort zone. I hated sharing, reading literature--now I do. I became a head nodder instead of a head shaker when asked to do something in AA. I try to make it less about me and more about others--especially newcomers--in the rooms. And it really is about me too, because it is helping me stay sober.
You're coming to this board, posting regularly instead of just reading. Your postings are helping others so much who may be too fearful to post. You are attending meetings, calling other AA'ers, have a HP who you pray to. Except for calling people (as I had a phone issue....my fingers and tongue went numb whenever I would try to call someone LOL) I did everything you did and I did it for several months into my sobriety. Then I started making coffee, setting up for meetings which helped more. Something was still missing inside me, though, and I had the same question you had, however my questioning made me want to drink again. (Yours may not--mine did). When they say "you have to be willing to do whatever it takes to stay sober in AA" this meant for me that I had to do what others had done who were staying sober....get a sponsor and work the steps. I am not sure without reading your previous postings if you have done this. For me to work just that 4th Step alone told me I was on the right track, because for me to tell someone else stuff I did I knew I was desperate to stay sober.
Of course, there are some rough days sometimes and I have to tell myself "Well, this kind of sucks, however, I cannot drink over it." I call or write another AA'er, I go to extra meetings, and most of all I pray (and pray and pray). When I do that the peace I feel tells me that I am doing what I need to be doing to stay sober and I feel that the "something I was missing inside" is "there" now.
You are doing great and how many days do you have now of sobriety? Pat yourself on the back, reach around and give yourself a big hug. Here are hugs from me..... ((((((enigma))))))
Well I do have a sponsor. I do work the steps. I'm not having the best of days today which is ok. Irritable and angry. I just ate will see if that helps. Went to a meeting this morning and going to another one tonite. I have 8days coming back after 19months of sobriety. So I think i'm doing pretty good considering everything else. I don't have to be perfect. But i'll tell you self pity can be a bitch and I need to keep on top of it when it enters my mind and nip it in the but. I've got nothing to feel ashamed about. I did the best I could at the time in my marriage and I'm sober once again which is a miracle. I know things could be way worse. I'm grateful for the things I have, not the things I don't have or think I need.
I'm sober, I have AA, I have a nice place to live rent free, I have a vehicle, I have a good job, I have my health, I have people in the program who honestly love me unconditionally and actually care about me, I have a second chance at this school of life. I'm could go on but you get the picture.
Drinking over the years caused a loss of spiritual values. Today I can change that with the help of a HP, But I can't drink for that to happen. I only don't have to drink today since tomorrow may never come and I can't live off of yesterdays sobriety it is past.
E ...what helped me came from along-time friend of AA, Dr. Harry M. Tiebout who clarified for me the difference between submission and surrender as it is implied in step 1 of our 12. In submission he said, "an individual accepts reality consciously but not unconsciously. He accepts as a practical fact that he cannot at the moment conquer reality and lurking in the unconscious is the feeling, 'there will come a day...' This is not real acceptance; the struggle is on going. With the temporary yielding, tension continues. When the ability to accept functions on the unconscious (or subconscious) level as surrender, there is no residual battle; there is relaxation and freedom from strain and conflict. I learn the difference between my conscious and sub-conscious thoughts, feelings and behaviors and that most often I drank without thinking or planning it...it was running itself I am alcoholic. I have a compulsion to drink that operated on the sub-conscious level and now had to use that same level to stop and stay sober...not dry only...sober. Good on you that you are still working it cause that is how it works. Keep coming back.