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betterthanyesterday52


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Confused About Thy Will Be Done in Praying
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I grew up in a Methodist church and was a Christian. I wasn't raised in a Bible thumping family. The only time we prayed as a family is when we were with my grandparents and before a meal. We did have to go to Sunday School and church with my folks when we were younger, until my parents got upset at something which happened and they stopped going there. I kept on attending that church until I started going to ones my friends attended....a Baptist one, a Pentacostal Holiness one--which I had the experience of hearing some members talk in tongues and watch them dancing, passing out in the aisles and even got to hear a tape of the minister and youth minister exorcising a young woman. That was an experience. In my adult years, I didn't attend church as much. I tried, in fact, I would volunteer to help in some of them, which eventually ended up with someone saying something to me, me getting my feelings hurt, and quitting. I still prayed. I got into the televangelist shows....PTL (Praise the Lord, with Jim Baker and Tammy Faye) and later on the 700 Club (Pat Robertson). I "joined" those and sent them money and was grateful for all the "good works" they were "doing". I stopped watched PTL when I found out that Jim Baker was "doing" his secretary and they were scamming people. I also thought it strange that their dog house had an air conditioner. (Maybe it was a resentment because I didn't even have an air conditioner as a kid :). That's when I started watching the 700 Club. I was fascinated when Pat and other co-hosts on the show would "heal" people through their t.v. sets (they would tell people to go to their t.v. and touch the screen and "feel the healing power of God". Oh, the marvels of technology when mixed with prayer! I liked that they had a news segment informing viewers of the current events from a religious viewpoint. I even voted for Bush Jr. because Pat told everyone to save their country by doing so. When we went to war, I stopped watching him--he "predicted" the country would be better, that we would all be "healed". I felt he was not as much in "touch" with God as I had thought. Also, being told by my brother that the man owned gold mines didn't help change my mind. (I never looked into that to confirm it).

Anyway, throughout the years, I lost my faith because of different things that happened to me and my family. I lost my two day old baby, my father died within four months later (alcoholism), my daughter had  a fall a few months after he died and we were scared we would lose her as we were told that they saw hemmorging in her brain. I drug my depressed ass into the place in the hospital where you can go pray.  I prayed. We were told by the doctor the next day, that he couldn't understand it, that what they had seen was gone. I was convinced that prayer is heard, however, didn't have a revival of faith to the degree I maybe should have. I still grieved over my baby, my father, and there were other issues which were going on which made me question God from time to time. However, I would get into some very heated debates--especially when I was drinking--with my ex and years later, my bf because they are atheists and I still believed in enough in God and the Bible and didn't like it when they made comments like "When you die, that's it" so I felt the need to challenge their beliefs. I also wanted to bring them some comfort that they would see their loved ones when they died. That didn't work and just caused more debates. (I don't do that anymore and realize to each his own--my thinking since being in AA.)

My faith has returned somewhat. I know I haven't been able to stay sober this long on my own. I pray several times a day now. My confusion is this....I have heard from other members and it also says in the Big Book to pray for "Thy Will Be Done". I recently posted about my daughter's health issues and at least one of the responses was to pray for "Thy Will Be Done".....I want to pray for God to heal my daughter. I now feel guilty praying for this because I also have interpreted the BB and other peoples' shares that this may be something I want and not in God's plan. I have heard others share that everything that is going on is supposed to have happened. I really have trouble wrapping my head around thinking that it was God's plan for my daughter to be going through these issues. In fact, I have trouble believing that God "makes" anyone sick. I have found over the last few weeks, when I pray for "Thy Will be Done" I think I am getting a bit of a resentment. I honestly don't know if it is a resentment towards God because maybe He did cause all this to happen to my daughter, and/or towards those who have made me think it is God's will for this to have happened to her.

Anyway, just confused right now. Maybe someone can come on here and explain all this to me. Maybe I will figure it out. I know I am having difficulty in my praying more so if I feel I have to be grateful to a God who has caused all these things to happen. I'm sober, but I think for me to feel that way I would have to be crazy as well as sober.

BTY

 

 



-- Edited by betterthanyesterday52 on Thursday 19th of June 2014 07:54:55 AM

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Stepchild


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You know BTY....How do you explain a child dying at birth? Or someone being killed by a gunman while they are sitting in church...Or where ever? There are a lot of things I don't understand. Why did I have to hurt so many people..Including myself to get to a point in my life where I am finally finding some peace? Why did I have to be alcoholic to get there? I don't know. Do I believe God has a plan for me?....I believe I wouldn't be here if he didn't.

Do I believe everything happens the way God wants it? No. I'm not big on that acceptance reading from the story in the Big Book. I believe the only thing I have to accept 100% is my alcoholism....And that the solution to my problem...Which damn near killed me is in God's hands. There are things that happen that I don't accept...But I move on. There are things that happen that aren't God's will.....They are man/woman's will.....And that's not going to change. But I have come to find out there are a lot of things that I didn't understand at the time....May not have liked at the time....Became clearer to me later on. That's where trust and faith come into play for me.

I look at it like this. Those steps are to clear away what was blocking me from God....To give me a design for living that aligns my will with God's will.....To live life on a spiritual basis the best I can.

I can't say it better than this...

It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.

BB pg 85

The 11th step says...

praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

That prayer is....Simply.

Thy will...Not mine...Be done.



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davep12and12


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There are lots of different views on faith and the concept of "Gods will". For me, I pay attention to the clear, specific wording in STEP ELEVEN. What should I be praying for and meditating on? Knowledge of God's will for me AND THE POWER TO CARRY IT OUT. That last part tells me very clearly that, at least for the purposes of my recovery in AA, the concept of 'Gods will for me' is the things I should be doing, not the random things that happen to me (or those around me). It is telling me that Gods will is something that exists, right here in the physical world, in every day life, in the ACTIONS of people who are doing the right thing, instead of doing the things that our flawed, self-centered self-will would have us do. And I can chose to act on self-will, or I can base my actions on a power greater, and more sane and healthy, than my self will. It is up to me, on a daily basis, to choose to make Gods will exist in my life here in the physical world, through my actions.

Now, all that other stuff about why do random bad things happen to people, well as far as I can see, stuff just happens and none of that has anything to do with Gods will one way or the other. I'm talking about getting sick, getting stuck by lightning, etc. When someone is harmed by the actions of another person, that would be an example of that other person acting on messed up self will instead of Gods will. Again, Gods will is in our actions. Or it is ABSENT from our actions, and that's up to each of us.

For me, it helps if I try not to think of God as some kind of cosmic puppet master who decides that this guy wins the lottery and that guy gets cancer. It doesn't help me do what I need to do to recover from alcoholism. A better analogy for me would be thinking of God as a huge tree in a field on a hot day. When I go to it, I get shade and relief. Does the tree DECIDE who will get shade and who will suffer in the heat? Nope. All I have to do is make the approach, and I will get the relief, because that is simply the nature of what the tree is.

 



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2granddaughters


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BTY, read some books by Fr Richard Rohr. Study the native Elder's Wisdom at whitebison.org .
Read books by the Dali Lama and learn about Hinduism, Buddhism, Yoga, Islam, Judaism and every other book you can get on spirituality.

The more I read about "God, as I don't understand Him" the more questions I get .. but the closer I feel . smile

 

All the best.

Bob R



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betterthanyesterday52


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Thank you all for your really great replies. I do feel much clearer about this now. I am so glad I posted my concerns.

BTY

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Wren


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Ah, 2Grandaughters; both Richard Rohr and Fr. Robert Barron have some wonderful writings and youtube videos addressing this from a religious context but without the thumping quality. About once a month (more if needed) i take a day away from computers, phones, chores and husband, and do a one day "retreat" that is just between myself and my Higher Power. No external distractions, just the 'two' of us. As long as I keep that trust going, I tend to not be so adamant about "why why why". Sometimes, there are no answers within our understanding. And then I just trust in the Mystery.

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Stepchild


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davep12and12 wrote:

For me, I pay attention to the clear, specific wording in STEP ELEVEN. What should I be praying for and meditating on? Knowledge of God's will for me AND THE POWER TO CARRY IT OUT. That last part tells me very clearly that, at least for the purposes of my recovery in AA, the concept of 'Gods will for me' is the things I should be doing,

I think that's what "be done" means. I try and keep this as simple as I can BTY....They tell us on page 83...

The spiritual life is not a theory. We have to live it.

For me it's as simple as this....

This thought brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. (pg 84)

Step Eleven...suggests prayer and meditation. We shouldn't be shy on this matter of prayer. (pg 85)

This is our twelfth suggestion: Carry this message to other alcoholics! You can help when no one else can. You can secure their confidence when others fail. Remember they are very ill. (pg 89) 

If I can take the simple action of those three suggestions everyday...I've already taken the action of the first nine suggestions. To the best of my ability...I can live a life that's a lot more happy, joyous and free....Than the chaos and calamity I lived most of my life with. I just need direction.

This is the how and why of it. First of all, we had to quit playing God. It didn't work. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our Director. He is the Principal; we are His agents. He is the Father, and we are His children. Most good ideas are simple, and this concept was the keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we passed to freedom.

pg 62

 

 



-- Edited by Stepchild on Thursday 19th of June 2014 03:52:35 PM

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Tasha


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Today I was reading something - all of which can be found here:  www.sriaurobindo.us/tm%20vol%201%20prayers/prayers%206%20july%20august%201914.htm

For some reason - I believe Thy Will does refer to accepting all things exactly as HP needs them to be. In my spiritual experiences, I feel that this life is not all there is... or our 'only shot' at life. It seems to me that the holocaust and babies dying are unspeakable injustices, and for me, since faith is a Choice (this program offers me the freedom from bondage of self and so for the first time in life I have choices) - it helps me to make the choice to believe that our eternal light and love goes on and manifests in many ways over the course of a souls existence toward the all knowing and perfect knowing and peace.

Now that said - I'm not claiming to believe in reincarnation or the exact nature or 'trip' our soul takes or any other specific religion for that matter... but I do have a choice to believe what feels peaceful and natural and the right to say that all I believe for sure is "I don't know" which means - God most certainly IS - but I'm not it.

I could claim that God is everything, and beyond description or human understanding to be most specific in my own beliefs. Lots of things written by humans help me, just as the languages of nature and being a part of my entire worldly family with all living things. I liked what Bob R guided you toward - dabbling in those things, mixed with Christianity teaching, mixed with some common sense and freedom to make choices are where I find contentment today.

The ideas that people bring forth are always wonderful, but it seems with every sort of belief system (and I'm just grasping here at my own uneducated theory) all of these different theories seem to sprout from an enlightened vision of perfect love and feeling a connection to all things as gifts to the earth - a great honor for what we have here, and gratitude for it's majestic unfathomable synchrony. Lots of people study different beliefs... lots of people claim it as their own, teach it, worship random things, engage in social practices and fellowships - but very few actually LIVE IT in any of the different theories. Just like in AA - many people know a lot about the steps, traditions, principles, concepts - love the fellowship etc etc etc... but only a very small number live it and become 'enlightened'. I see this in my church. I see this at places where people are studying to 'master' spirituality. It doesn't seem to matter where you go or what the flavor or preferred delusion is... very few are diligently living a life of feeling one with all. That's not to say those few are better than the rest 'in my delusion' that's just where they are on the BIG JOURNEY (I will call it for language's sake) - in this 'round' or life or whatever. So the people who died in the holocaust... they aren't 'done'. And the babies? Not done. And the ones who sit in AA or church or where ever for their whole life and never find peace and happiness - or 'enlightenment'. They're not done yet either.

In this way - we're all equals, just traveling along parallel to each other - but at different places on the journey. Which is fine. The key is finding acceptance for everything that IS - and all that God IS. Which is everything (in my belief).

In my preferred delusion, or religion, or whatever you want to call it for the sake of your peace... we are all just head for one wonderful 'completion' toward love and light, of course, I can't accurately describe any of the things I actually believe in human language, because - again - I don't know what it is we're doing... but I feel peaceful about it. I feel peace when I realize I tap into the eternal source of love that is in all of us equally, and know that we are all working our way toward greater power, a power I will not understand intellectually... but can feel in my heart, and put total and absolute faith in.

When I began feeling this way after my step work, the promises did materialize in full - and I found a New peace, and a new happiness as the result of freedom from the bondage of self. Thy will be done - not mine, is about all I ever pray today in words. Most of my prayers for all my brothers and sisters on the path have no words... just light and love and time and space in my heart - they are more a feeling, a connection and unity as my heart rejoices for what IS.

Luv you xoxoxoo



-- Edited by Tasha on Thursday 19th of June 2014 04:43:10 PM

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xxoxoxoxxooo Love & Peace
Mike D


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God doesn't cause bad things to happen to people.  Most often, people cause bad things to happen to people.  And, other times, it's just life that happens.  People can do bad things.  People can get sick and die at any age.  That's life in this world.  To pray, "Thy will be done..." is basically asking to be set free of "self-will".

Mike D.



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Stepchild


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I think it makes more sense when it's coupled with this....

"How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done."



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Philipld


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Yupper..Its THAT simple :)



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