"AA romances are not usually a good thing. There is a small chance that they might work if both parties have twenty years of sobriety and spiritual programs of planetary perfection. For a newly sober sponsee it may be better to take a break from sex and romance until some progress has been made on his drinking. A great line from the Big Books account of a 12th Step call should be remembered: Were giving you a treatment for alcoholism. (BB p157)
When new members in AA get entangled in romance and sex, the relationship becomes a distraction to the work at hand. When it ends, one or both may start missing meetings because they wont want to see each other. Broken hearts, self-pity and self-delusion can work together to make sponsorship more confusing. Relationships between new members can make sponsorship more complicated, and they can threaten sobriety. Further, if one goes out, although not always the case, the other will often be blamed or blame himself.
Although not mentioned in our book, the AA program of recovery will help an alcoholic develop to the point where it is quite possible to live with all the non- alcoholics in the world pretty well. Romance-wise, there are plenty of young men and women out there for your sponsee if he stays sober and follows the principles of the program (a few simple rules). AA relationships that deal with auto repair, house painting, writing poetry, getting a job or fixing plumbing are absolutely great! Early sex and love relationships are probably not such a good idea. They can be filled with every kind of alcoholic mischief!
A new member with a sex relation inside the AA program may as well have packed a case of old, wet dynamite in his trunk. No one can guess when it will blow, but everyone agrees it probably will, sooner or later!"
http://www.aaredux.com/sponsorship-tips
(The "20 years" part had me scratching my head, as I don't understand that; however the rest of it makes sense to me and I thought others may find it of interest. I actually came across this when I was searching tips on sponsorship and thought it was timely.)
Well, it seems the Big Book was clearly speculating since, at the time the BB was written, no one had more than four years. Too, I take exception to 'spiritual platforms of planetary perfection. I am far from perfect and my wife and I are doing fabulous: though perhaps that's because she's perfect...you think? ;)
OK...I read this again and now I am confused...
I am wondering if they are suggesting not to have a relationship with anyone inside AA no matter the length of sobriety. I really do not have enough time/experience in AA myself to know if this is a good/not so good suggestion.( I believe that I would rather be with a recovering alcoholic than be with someone who may get into drinking.)I was going to remove it, however, will leave it and as someone said on another post earlier you can... "Take what you want and leave the rest".
My Big Book doesn't say anything about that on page 157. Thats chapter 11 A vision for you. I have no idea where this came from. I will google you site and see WTF. I have NEVER read that. I don't recall ever hearing that. I'll check it out.
This site was made by Chad H. not AA. He wants money for his program well 'donations' in his pocket. .
Sorry betterthanyou I love ya but this guy blows s%&t out of his ass in my humble opinion.
-- Edited by Lizmccal on Friday 23rd of May 2014 08:08:12 PM
-- Edited by Lizmccal on Friday 23rd of May 2014 08:09:25 PM
__________________
We all drank and know how to do that. It's living sober that I am learning about.
LOL Liz..... I shoulda checked better than I did....I usually am pretty careful about cutting and pasting from other sites, as anybody can say/put anything on the internet, and sometimes the doo-doo does fly out of strange places, and sometimes out of me, so don't like to add to the "pile" .... I think some of what he says makes sense and just reiterates what I have heard/learned since being in AA. The no dating at all between AA'ers I don't agree with and the part where he says there are plenty of non-alcoholics out there for the sponsee? Why should any non-alcoholic accept me if I am not able to accept a recovering alcoholic?
Like I said I started to remove this posting after I re-read it and it sunk in a little more.
" the part where he says there are plenty of non-alcoholics out there for the sponsee? Why should any non-alcoholic accept me if I am not able to accept a recovering alcoholic? "
I have two AA couples that are very good friends of mine...They are happy and very respectful of eachother's programs. I'm not saying it can't work. But these guys didn't meet their wives waiting at the rehab door. They all had some time and were living in the solution when they met. That makes a big difference.
Well, most of the people I have had dating relationships with haven't been alcoholics (as far as I know), with the exception of one...and these non-alcoholics weren't that emotionally healthy. The other things--spiritual and mentally--I am not sure. But that was long ago and maybe they have grown up by now, and for me, probably the drinking stunted my growth and I stayed back "somewhere in time". (I loved that movie, btw).
You know, maybe it sounds nasty for me to say this....if I wasn't an alcoholic I don't think I would want to be with an alcoholic of any kind--active drinker or recovering. After seeing so much with my dad, I think I would be too afraid of that person relapsing. And also I don't want to be with a person like I turned into myself when I was drinking and someone who thinks like me.
I started dating my husband at about 6 months sober and fell in love with him for the first time. Though we were already married with kids like 7 years lol . So far we are more in love all the time now that we've learned to love ourselves and so have love to offer.
-- Edited by Tasha on Friday 23rd of May 2014 09:36:42 PM
betterthanyesterday52 wrote: You know, maybe it sounds nasty for me to say this....if I wasn't an alcoholic I don't think I would want to be with an alcoholic of any kind--active drinker or recovering. After seeing so much with my dad, I think I would be too afraid of that person relapsing. And also I don't want to be with a person like I turned into myself when I was drinking and someone who thinks like me.
It certainly doesn't sound nasty, BTY but for me - it would be hard to find a non-alcoholic. that I could be compatible with. I've said many times, people are like nuts, they have to break to get to the good stuff. Letting go and letting God ain't easy stuff - if our lives depended upon it... maybe. But wait! My life did depend upon it. :) And so did hers. Heck, I'm an atheist and count on my higher power like no one's business. My wife gets that. So when I wake up and say, "My HP told me to get on a plane and fly to Vegas." she says, "Oh, need a ride to the airport?" I just can't even imagine a scenario like that going down with a normie. Perhaps it might, but my imagination slowed down after I didn't need to come up with so many excuses for my life and I can't imagine a single person...other than one who knows what it is like to trust their HP unequivocally and with their life on a daily basis.
I think that I will copy & paste and put these comments on this thread as well
MY EXPERIENCE:
The first 15 yrs of my sobriety, was a very social AA environment...Everyone knew who was sleeping with whom and could care less..In Clearwater Fl.. we had AA beach..sun, surfing, frisbies and bikinis..always a party..SOBER..there was always a lot of fun..I once said to Jan "before" my second anniversary..If you don't sleep with me I'm going to drink..She said here's a dollar big boy..buy yourself a couple of beers on me... when I did reach two..she did have a nice present for me..
I chaired a meeting 30 yrs ago..."Girls Just wanna have fun"...A young lady from Tampa, an attorney as a newcomer would just sit there and just ball her eyes out..she told me often that was the best meeting that she ever went to..A year later she was a Fed Circuit Court Judge..My girl had 3 months..a junior leaguer, good job, great looker, getting a divorce..Her sponsor a doctors wife..18 years... we were together 6 years..Mike C..an Ivy league grad's favorite topic when he chaired..."How much spighetti can you shove up a cat's ass"...Everyone would laugh and talk about what they wanted to talk about..and we all stayed sober...There was a lot of brains, talent and sobriety in that room.
There were many who disagreed..who wouldn't go to those Beach meetings in the Clearwater Indian Rocks circuit..Going back 30 years we were somewhat intimidating..Doctors, Attorneys , Architects, Ceo's..we just saw things a bit different..it's what you identified with..The interpretation may be different..intellect and identification different..but the AA MUSIC was the same...If anyone told me there was any MUSTS..I would have put my tennis racket in my left hand..giving them the finger with my right hand..That's why I'm sober over 40 years I had a great start..with a great group..I owe my life to them As Father Martin once told me personally Tomas...The Good is often the enemy of the Best.."He would often come to Forida and enjoy our hospitality with us..George from our group was his right hand man in the late 70's..."Tomas Sailor Face Book"
Tomas, what you described sounds like a "clique" to me. If people from all professions were accepted and welcomed and treated the same, then I am wrong in my thinking. One thing I love about AA is that people from all walks of life--background, social status, etc. can all be together and get along. At least, that is the way it should be.I would probably feel quite intimidated being around only doctors, attorneys, etc. if they pointed out their "intellectual abilities" and professions to me and I was made to feel inferior. I really wouldn't want to put myself in that position where I was comparing myself to others or they were comparing themselves to me. And by saying..."we just saw things a bit different"...in what way? You were just all a bunch of recovering drunks getting together in my opinion. Did you have trouble relating with others who didn't have degrees and make as much money as you? You probably all did things in your drinking days that would be considered pretty "low class". Your high GPA's and degrees certainly didn't keep you sober. It was AA. I think when we keep in mind that the main goal in AA is to stay sober and help alcoholics regardless of any of that other "stuff" (....for lack of a more intellectual word) then all's well. That was, as you said, Thomas, 30 years ago, and maybe things have changed. I have met wonderful caring people in AA who treat me like I am just an alcoholic trying to stay sober. I have been asked what I do for a living very few times since I have been in AA. I feel respected and cared about from almost everyone I have encountered. And the ones who haven't treated me that way...is their problem, not mine.
The main thing is that you have a tremendous amount of sobriety time and I admire you for having reached that awesome goal--not your intellectual ability and not your profession.
BTY
In a way we were a clique..All groups are cliques and all were welcome..Those who didn't get our brand went elsewhere..There were many many groups...but we all seemed to identify with each other..a thorough understanding of the Big Book 12 & 12 and the principles.."We were not a glum lot"
If it wasn't for this brand of AA..and these meeting goer's..I doubt that I would have stuck to AA and stayed sober..My first meeting there I was invited to a halloween party...after the meeting...When I moved from Ma. to Fl... I went to several meetings..I didn't like nor identified so I simply stopped going to meetings for 4 months till someone suggested I try this group...I don't certainly need to defend anything..That's the way it was and the results speak for itself..I'm sober over 40 years with a wonderful life..How I got there is written above....I've generally been considered a rather controversial figure in AA but I have never had any aspirations to be any more than what I am..That's why I'm sober so long..If my experience can help others fine..but shy away from being a pontificator of AA stuff..There are many of those who interpret the big book for others..God Bless em...They do a lot of good..but seldom cut it for me...I do suggest the talks of Father Joe Martin for good basic AA...comes right from the heart
Tomas Sailor FaceBook
PS the reason I put my FaceBook that's EXACTLY who & what I am and rather proud of it...and I owe it to a lot of hard work trusting in God and AA.
My Big Book doesn't say anything about that on page 157. Thats chapter 11 A vision for you. I have no idea where this came from. I will google you site and see WTF. I have NEVER read that. I don't recall ever hearing that. I'll check it out.
This site was made by Chad H. not AA. He wants money for his program well 'donations' in his pocket. .
Sorry betterthanyou I love ya but this guy blows s%&t out of his ass in my humble opinion.
-- Edited by Lizmccal on Friday 23rd of May 2014 08:08:12 PM
-- Edited by Lizmccal on Friday 23rd of May 2014 08:09:25 PM
It didnt make much sense to me either liz. But I think the quote "we're giving you a treatment for alcoholism" might have come from the story of alcoholic number three, Bill D.
I think the book suggests boy meets girl on AA campus might not be a good thing, but it also states "we don't want to be the arbiters of anyone's sex conduct" along with plenty of good suggestions about how we might reach our own conclusions in this area through step 4 sex conduct.
In another place it positively encourages AA relationships. So who knows. It's up to the individual.
For myself, based on experience, I steer clear of AA women. The main reason being we grow spritually at different rates. While we may begin at the same point, a year down the track there is tension developing, one going too fast the other too slow. This problem doesn't seem to arise with non alcoholics.
As for dating a recovering alcoholic, I wouldn't suggest anyone do that. Let them finish the steps first. Someone who is struggling with the steps and going from one drama to the next isn't going to make a great partner.
Different story for one who has recovered and is continuing to perfect and enlarge their spiritual life. They seem to make wonderful and selfless partners who really are interested in seeing what they can pack into the stream of life. They are not that common, but they are around. My sponsor was one such.
I agree with Mike here, in the first 6 months of my sobriety - while I was working on the steps - I made a mostly terrible partner. I became aware of this around step 4 & 5 ;) It was at that point where I realized that I had to love this man how I would desire to be loved - freely... meaning, he was free to stay or leave, I only wanted him to be happy and healthy, and if that meant it was going to be without me, then that would be something I was willing to accept and even promote. But, it turned out, that this key to living free from the bondage of self only grew as I completed the remainder of the steps (the first time) and the desire to drink was gone... and not only that, but my desire to STOP drinking was outweighed by a desire to START living in Gods will. This was highly attractive to not only my husband but lots of other men in the program hehe. It also stirred up lots of jealously and hate from people especially woman in the program. All things that furthered my spiritual growth as a result of Getting to practice principles amongst people at a different place. Finally - coming to see, as Mike mentioned above that was I 'had be given' in this program was uncommon and to be cherished despite the state of living everyone else was in. A sort of mourning for... and survivors guilt as we spoke of before Grace... and then... that really magical thing: I didn't Have to be here anymore. I didn't just Want to be here anymore. I Got to be here. It was a privilege and an honor. With this in mind - continuing to honor my life and all others, live it, inspire and be inspired took many forms and just continues to do so. It's also a great back drop for a meaningful relationship with someone else on a path toward growth and spirituality :)
I learned to first be mysellf through the first nine steps...That was not easy..often in my own way...Then I was in a position to attract and not promote..This is when I begin to hear the message and receive guidance..! do it through steps 10 11 & 12...
AA is perfect the problem is that people are not perfect...reflecting back...sometimes they just got in my way..but that through not to much difficulty can be overcome..The lesson of my own respective experience above is to suggest to become openminded...There exists in AA and I was told from the very beginning a reverse snobbery in AA ..those unfortunates, who didn't have to much in life, many living as low lifes..embraced the program particularly the big book..spending extraordinary amounts of time...becoming authoritarians..."The Only thing ever accomplished"...living their life in the rooms..telling people things from an academic fashion, many times "looking down upon those graced with more brains and accomplishment"...My group knew this...recognizing that in the frellowship there is room for everyone..IN TIME..things work out well...Eventually my strong point "I could comfortably get along with anyone from Yale to jail"...The distance spiritually is not far but on the outside where we interact with our personalities it is quite far..I've seen and experienced it all. Eddie Castro was a saint at an AA meeting..He was #50 on Fl. death row and executed..when he picked up a drink he was a serial killer..I worked as a volunteer in a low life treatment center..I was his councellor at the time with 12 years sobriety..I'm lucky he didn't try to kill me.
If I might give ANY advice I will say it again..over 40 yrs sobriety..I will whole heartedly recommend..I believe its on U tube know Father Joseph Martin...He puts it all in perspective..
After my experience with the steps I had "stolen" a drug store manager from her then boy friend. The relationship was on it's last legs anyhow and although "short" (2 1/2 years) it still lasted a year longer than my marriage lol. We were very happy for that time too myself especially because everyday of that relationship was like Christmas and Valentines Day felt like a real holiday. It was just what the doctor ordered for me at least!!! There was a lot of other liaisons I could've had but chose not to for ethics reasons and not wanting to upset my personal mobile...human's are an emotional lot, but that didn't mean I didn't have any fun living and learning. I guess I wouldn't suggest it for anybody, but God sure blessed the soul that could and did.
-- Edited by Flynn on Monday 26th of May 2014 02:54:37 PM
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