So I have a new male friend. I'm not dating I only have 6 months and honestly I'm doing what is suggested of me. This person I really really like. He has an amazing story. He is two years younger than me and has 13 years sober. We have gone to coffee and dinner and I have now had him to my house for dinner. We barely hug when I see him and not much in the jokes about sex. I am good looking I know this and our fellow ship is lacking women. Infact I am one of a few single and like one of 3 in the 30's age range being a woman. I was noticing there were 4 women to 14 men at the last meeting and this is an honest haverage. 1/5 women to men.
My question am I being stupid thinking "oh he just wants to be friends"? He works a program a damn good program and I really like him. He is a good person. He has not made any sexual advances twards me (he did rub my back last time I saw him (he was sitting next to him on a bench maybe I am being stupid?).
Any thoughts would be appreciated. My sponcer just said watch it and she was friends with her first aa boyfriend for 6 months before they got together because she did the year thing too. I am exausted and need to sleep sorry if it looks like a 5th grader typed this.
Thank you!!
Liz
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We all drank and know how to do that. It's living sober that I am learning about.
I don't know if it's wrong or right...It seems to me if he was working such a great program he wouldn't be interfering with someone with six months trying to get a program together. That's what you should be focusing on right now. That's just how I look at it.
Good morning Liz, You are not being stupid at all--just human. There is nothing wrong with being friends with other members in AA male and female. If that is what you are interested in--friends--as your posting topic said. If you are wanting/expecting more than friendship from this man, then it would be a good idea to take things slowly, which it sounds like you both are doing for the most part. He may just want to be friends. He may want more to come out of your relationship. The back rub thing would make me wonder if it has more to do with the latter of the two. I am friends with different males in the rooms. If one were to start giving me a back rub--then I would think there was more of an interest in me than friendship. And I would probably think this is one of the women in AA were to give me a back rub, too. Now if your back was aching and you asked him....that could be just a nice thing he did to help you. The suggested "waiting at least a year before getting involved with someone" in AA is mainly to protect you from having yet another thing on your plate that may threaten your sobriety, should there be fights, breakup, etc. He doesn't need to be protected because he has 13 years of sobriety and he been using the tools he has learned in AA to handle stressful situations.
You are doing great. If you just try and keep it in the forefront of your mind that your sobriety comes first--before anything else--you'll do fine. And if he truly is working a good program, like you believe he is, then he wants that for you as well. Maybe he is just playing the "friends" card until you reach a year. If that is true the amount of restraint on his part I think is to be admired. It is hard when people are attracted to one another and spending time together alone to not take it to the next level. If this man is interested in a romantic relationship with you and is able to do that for another several months with you until you reach a year.....would you see if he has a brother???? (Seriously though... relationships tend to be more long lasting when two people take their time and really get to know one another. Also, from what I have heard, they can be so much more passionate when sexual intimacy is not rushed into, and does occur between people who do respect and know one another better.) BTY
It's more important what you want from him. I don't see him as interfering with your program at this time. I don't know how you straight people court each other versus cross gendered friendship. Maybe I need to watch "When Harry met Sally" again. Seriously, I'm inclined to think most men wouldn't go to your house alone and all that just to be your friend in the long term. Doesn't mean he won't be okay with just being friends. Possibly this guy might abide by friendship "rules" until you take the lead or until you have more sobriety so it is more "acceptable."
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Hi Liz, ... I've seen many friendships like this develop in the rooms of AA ... some very good, some, not so much ... I would say you're being 'cautious', rather than stupid ... always best to err on the side of caution than to jump right into a relationship, if that's where this is headed ...
Yes, we have found through experience, that starting a relationship before a year of good sobriety, more often than not, ends in disaster ... one or both parties relapsing ... the thing is, is that we're going through a major change in our lives and are on a huge 'roller coaster' of emotions ... and until we can comfortably settle down and live the 'AA way of life' (having worked and learned to practice the steps and principles of AA), we have no business trying to manage any relationship new to us the first year ...
I say if this guy holds off any advances for another 6 months, AND, you manage to continue your growth in AA, then by all means, allow the relationship to grow, if that's what you want ... it's one of the reasons we get and stay sober, to learn how to live life the way God intended ... and He didn't intend for us to live it alone !!! ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Men & women in AA interacting with one-another is like having a table with a bunch of bar magnets on it (the magnets made like a bar rather than a horseshoe).
As the magnets are moved and shuffled around the table they often become "stuck" to one another (for no apparent reason except they got too close) and have to be pried apart with great force.
Remember the old adage "Familiarity breeds contempt" except for us struggling alcoholics "Familiarity breeds ATTEMPT".
All the best Liz. We are learning to make omelets here and we have to be willing to break some eggs and have a mess to clean up.
Bob
-- Edited by 2granddaughters on Thursday 22nd of May 2014 07:41:19 AM
I don't know....Maybe I'm looking at it wrong....All I do know...Is if I was giving backrubs to a female newcomer with six months dry....I'd hope my friends would call me out on it.
what id suggest is pray for clarity on it.
and im with stepchild on this,too. PLEASE call me out if I do anything like that to someone early in recovery.
It's headed to an affair...Why be afraid of it...Embrace it..I have had more than a few myself over 40 years of sobriety..one lasted six years..I stayed sober..and know many more the same...There is a statement and it's true "If you can stay sober in AA you can stay sober anywhere"..Some people are just too analytical..Don't get involved etc..that's not life
It's headed to an affair...Why be afraid of it...Embrace it..I have had more than a few myself over 40 years of sobriety..one lasted six years..I stayed sober..and know many more the same...There is a statement and it's true "If you can stay sober in AA you can stay sober anywhere"..Some people are just too analytical..Don't get involved etc..that's not life
This has got to be the dumbest statement I've seen on this site yet. Just out of curiosity Liz...What step are you working on?
To laugh is to risk appearing the fool. To weep is to risk appearing sentimental To reach out for another is to risk involvement. To expose feelings is to risk exposing your true self. To place your dreams before a crowd is to risk ridicule. To love is to risk not being loved in return. To live is to risk dying. To hope is to risk despair. To go forward in the face of overwhelming odds is to risk failure But to risk we must, because the greatest hazard in life is to risk nothing. The person who risks nothing is one who does nothing, has nothing, is nothing. He may avoid suffering and sorrows, but he cannot learn, feel, change, grow, or love. Chained by his certitudes, he is a slave - he has forfeited his freedom. Only a person who takes risks is FREE
"Embrace" it???? "Only a person who takes risks is Free????"
Maybe others have done it early in their sobriety and got through it alright and that's great for them.
For me, I fall fast when I am in a new relationship. My emotions are all over the place and my common sense has taken a back burner. Some of the heaviest drinking I have done is over relationships and all the BS that goes with it when you are fighting, heartbroken, messed around on, etc. I think sobriety requires us to be as clear headed as we can be without any interference. AA also suggests that we not make any major changes in the first year of our sobriety. Getting involved with someone is a major change.
We have learned in AA that we should not put ourselves in ANY situation which can threaten our sobriety.
I think recovering alcoholics have an obligation to protect newcomers. I would hate to see a future posting telling us that she got involved romantically with this person, broke up and went out and drank again.
I sure would hate to have that on my conscious. That's just me though. I have a conscious.
I think there is a big difference between recovered alcoholics having relationships in AA and having them with six months in. I'm not real sure where she is with the steps....The program we recover with....But I haven't seen a lot of success with newcomers coming into AA and getting into relationships before recovery....They usually don't hang around too long. I wish you well with whatever you choose to do Liz....I can only speak for myself....At six months my mind was on recovery and nothing else. That's what worked for me....When I really look at it....I didn't have a whole lot to offer someone at that stage in my journey anyway...So I worked on my relationship with God. That's where my attention needed to be that early on.
I kinda have to side with Stepdude after giving this some more thought Liz ... ... ... when we come to realize we are powerless over alcohol, we need to take certain steps with action, in order to stop our downward spiral ... ... ... IF you have completed the steps and are in the pocket of working 10, 11, and 12 on a daily basis, I'd say you're probably in good enough shape to make your own choices here, regarding a new relationship ... however, if you don't feel well grounded in the AA principles, and haven't completed the steps, then I'd say keep your distance from this guy for now ...
I also have to say that 60 years ago, relationships were a whole lot different, times change, peoples values change, and moral conduct for the 'majority' has changed ... we have fewer and fewer people standing behind the 'vows' they make when getting married for instance ... and more and more, we see couples having relations without being married ... if you have any belief system in the Big BB at all, then you have to know this is frowned upon ... actually, it's more than just frowned upon ...
I think the 'moral fiber' of this, and other nations, has been and will be significant to our downfall ... just an opinion of an old drunk who has chosen not to drink for a while, by the Grace of God ...
May recovery and God be our choice of the day, Love ya,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I was so insanely codependent and I wasn't ready to work on it so I did what I always did when I had a break up which was get in a new relationship at 2 months sober. It was a silly relationship that was fraught with drama and I was selfishly using the person because I was scared to be alone. The relationship ended just after a year into my sobriety and in my 2nd year is when I really let go and changed. I wouldn't recommend others go about things this way....but adults are free to make their own choices.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I went into all relationship in recovery with the mind set that I could potentially be sitting next to this person in meetings for the rest of my life. That meant certain care and caution and honor needed to be present. You 2 could be the last 2 standing in 20 yrs... it will require a certain level of respect and integrity o matter what you think of each other.
Everything I do and say in aa I remember I have to face again possibly for life. The Steps help with that. Xxxbest wishes
Better to get in a relationship with someone in the program than someone outside who will have a few drinks in him and tell you your not an alcoholic..have a drink babe..and forget all that AA nonsense.."That's the real world"..not the bulletin board world...as exemplified by stepchilds reaction to my statement..I heard that a 1000 times.."Beg pardon sir or mam..."We don't come into AA to run away from life but to embrace it ...We use the steps to be honest without ourselves and with other ..not to run away from relationships..
This guy has 13 yrs sobriety you might learn something..consider yourself lucky..and if it doesn't work out..That's no excuse for picking up a drink...
From some of the clowns I've met in AA...I don't think the number of years means squat Tomas. I've watched a guy with 14 years in action...And he's a predator...Plain and simple. He's been kicked out of meetings....But he's still around. The point I'm making...It's probably better to work on recovery (the steps) first...Before we start taking on relationships. If this is what you are saying here...
..."We don't come into AA to run away from life but to embrace it ...We use the steps to be honest without ourselves and with other ..not to run away from relationships..
Then I'd agree with you. If not....Then I respectfully disagree with you. But you can tell newcomers anything you want.....I heard a lot of things early on I didn't pay any attention to...The beauty of...Take what you want and leave the rest.
I have had guys with more than 20+years of sobriety trying to teach me something I didn't want to learn and I am grateful that you are where you are and not in my area. That's one less "oldtimer" who thinks its ok to date newcomers for the women in my meetings to have to deal with.
This is always a fascinating sort of topic for me, because I'm always curious about whether or not people believe that 'there are no mistakes in Gods world' or not. I hear people say that it was the Grace of God that brought them into the rooms... and I know for me personally, even though I was preyed on by a man with 33 yrs of sobriety (well 35 now), my child was molested WHILE I WAS at meetings (by someone I completely loved and trusted and taught music lessons to), stalked and followed home by a crazy guy who actually did this to several other woman including my sponsor, had some of what FEW woman we have in our group gang up on me and tell me I was 'sponsoring too soon' and could not have a 'spiritual sponsor' etc: RULES they had out of fear... and those are just a FEW Of the MANY bad experiences that I had in my first year in AA that SHOULD have driven me away if I were to believe that these are the sorts of things that are supposedly going to MAKE people drink.
But I'm still here. And I'm still sober. I lived through it all - all the court stuff for my daughter, the times she begged me to see 'her favorite babysitter' just a 4 yr old who couldn't have a clue that she was being harmed for life and not to sound like I'm complaining at all... because I learned A TON and though the things sucked at the time - I still believe with all my heart that I am being prepared for whatever is Next in life and that God still has me where He needs me. I take it all as a learning and growth opportunity today - since the molester lives close to us - we are finally going to move away from this Winter wonderland up here in WI which I've wanted to do my whole life. Tons of good stuff has come from everything that happened - and I'm not going to go on and on about that, it's all related to the powerful relationship I have with a HP and faith as a result of putting my HP and the principles of the program into practice during terrible times... and now I get to know I can get through anything with God.
So - I wonder sometimes... if we really all need to be rallying around trying to keep this or that from happening to people. I mean... preying on newcomers seems to be so dang awful - but how do we know it's not part of a bigger plan? How do we know that this really crappy thing isn't keeping us busy being pissed on a bench somewhere sobbing on our sponsors shoulder instead of getting hit by a bus dead?
Thank You all and Wow good information to think about. I am waiting a year because I want to be sober so much I will do what my sponcer suggest. I am on step 4/5 sharing with my sponcer but stuff keeps comming up. I don't think he is a preditor but I do understand it can be hard for men and women to be "just friends" sometimes and with dinners involved that seems to complicate things. I like him a lot but not in a relationship kinda way. He is too young to date like that but because I enjoy his company so much I do wonder my own motivations. Ok program first! I can live with out friends or relationships but I can't live if I drink, He can decide if he wants to hang out knowing I won't put-out. I don't want to die and I know if I drink I'm playing with my life (coke and booze are a combination I almost died from, even if I only do AA it doesn't mean when I'm drunk I don't huff coke or do whatever else is around).
I think I'll just make it clear I like him a lot but no relationships for a year and I don't f#*k my friends. I like others in the rooms have morals when I can't drink myself into acting on bad ideas.
Thanks again!!!
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We all drank and know how to do that. It's living sober that I am learning about.
So - I wonder sometimes... if we really all need to be rallying around trying to keep this or that from happening to people. I mean... preying on newcomers seems to be so dang awful - but how do we know it's not part of a bigger plan? How do we know that this really crappy thing isn't keeping us busy being pissed on a bench somewhere sobbing on our sponsors shoulder instead of getting hit by a bus dead?
I guess the way I look at this....Is if I'm praying only for knowledge of God's will for me....I tend to end up in less situations where I can be hurt. Sometimes that comes from something I hear from someone else. I can't count how many times I've gone to a meeting and heard exactly what I needed to hear.
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each day "Thy will be done." We are then in much less danger of excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions. We become much more efficient. We do not tire so easily, for we are not burning up energy foolishly as we did when we were trying to arrange life to suit ourselves.
It works - it really does.
BB pgs 87 - 88
Something like that.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Friday 23rd of May 2014 08:35:10 PM
The first 15 yrs of my sobriety, was a very social AA environment...Everyone knew who was sleeping with whom and could care less..In Clearwater Fl.. we had AA beach..sun, surfing and bikinis..always a party..SOBER..there was always a lot of fun..I once said to Jan "before" my second anniversary..If you don't sleep with me I'm going to drink..She said here's a dollar big boy..buy yourself a couple of beers on me... when I did reach two..she did have a nice present for me..
I chaired a meeting 30 yrs ago..."Girls Just wanna have fun"...A young lady from Tampa, an attorney as a newcomer would just sit there and ball her eyes out..she told me often that was the best meeting that she ever went to..A year later she was a Fed Circuit Court Judge..My girl had 3 months..a junior leaguer, good job, great looker, getting a divorce..Her sponsor a doctors wife..18 years... we were together 6 years..Mike C..an Ivy league grad's favorite topic when he chaired..."How much spighetti can you shove up a cat's ass"...Everyone would laugh and talk about what they wanted to talk about..and we all stayed sober...There was a lot of brains, talent and sobriety in that room.
There were many who disagreed..who wouldn't go to those Beach meetings in the Clearwater Indian Rocks circuit..Going back 30 years we were somewhat intimidating..Doctors, Attorneys , Architects, Ceo's..we just saw things a bit different..it's what you identified with..The interpretation may be different..intellect and identification different..but the music was the same...If anyone told me there was any musts..I would have put my tennis racket in my left hand..giving them the finger with my right hand..That's why I'm sober over 40 years I had a great start..with great sobriety.
(Seriously though... relationships tend to be more long lasting when two people take their time and really get to know one another. Also, from what I have heard, they can be so much more passionate when sexual intimacy is not rushed into, and does occur between people who do respect and know one another better.)
