Well i really don't know what to say. My STBXW I love how after 15yrs of marriage someone can be so spitefull actually corrosive hate is more like it, a black soul. IDK who this monster is anymore. I'm glad she is starting a new chapter. Its sad that someone can't live on their own and be more mature but she is spiritually sick also. Crap i wouldn't do any of this stuff while active. I know anger is not a luxury i can afford. But i don't forgive her i'm not ready and willing. Too much pain and hurt. Someday i will but not now. I pray every day asking God to help me forgive her and that he gives her everything she needs to get healthy. I try to separate the person from the action but find it difficult. I will never let anyone do this to me ever again!!! I refuse to be a victim of manipulation and deceit!!! Its a shame cause i will never be able to trust like i should. I will always have my guard up. I know i deserve better cause i actually am comfortable in my own skin and can live on my own without relying on another man or woman for support, life skill, or to make me happy. I can't wait to get this shit hole joke of a marriage over with so i can move on. I think this marriage was about two things sex &support. Maybe at one time there was love but not now. Its been replaced with hate. I'm really sick of hating and being hated. It drains me when i have better things to do. When does the hate stop. I'm convinced she is not happy unless she can hate and have chaos. Its not about just me anymore this goes deeper and its not my sickness or responsibility to rescue or caretake anymore. I'm sick of being on the crazy train. But the sick shit is that i still care for her. I know i would never be with anyone who treats me this way. This is been a hard lesson learned and i will never put myself in this position. I can't change the past or present situation but i don't have to repeat it thank God. I actually feel so so sorry for her. Enough about her now its about me. I will be very selfish for me. My recovery and me come first always. I always told her that if i had to choose between drinking, insanity or her. It would never be her!!! Now I've chosen. Can't wait to get a new Apt. Can't wait to start my new job with every weekend off. I only have to work Monday &Wednesday which is schedule no new employee gets. God did take care of my job i'll tell you that much, it just fell in my lap so i am grateful for that. I don't mean to rant and rave tonite but i need to get this all out i can't hold it inside. I know i have to let it go. I know i have to drop the rock. But not before I'm done owning my emotions and my part in this. I can'y wait to put the past behind me. I pray to God not to hate her I'm a better person than this and its not the AA way nor does it have any spiritual values. Enough from me sorry if this offended anyone i just needed to vent its been building inside and could no longer be ignored. Now i can pause when agitated or doubtful tonite now that i got this off my chest.
I heard something in AA which has really been helpful...."What other people think about me is none of my business." This thought comes in my mind when I think someone doesn't like me. I just keep on trying to be the best me I can be. (Unfortunately, this quote didn't come in my mind last week when I got my feelings hurt.) Unfortunately, many times when couples split there are so many emotions coming into play and people aren't always at their best. Many times things are said which are a result of the intense pain they are feeling and have the need to release and not how they actually feel about the other person. Her feelings are hers which she has to own and yours are your own. Just because someone calls another person names doesn't make it true and harboring ill feelings about that other person who says/does mean things only makes you have resentments and wreak your nerves--doesn't do a damn thing "to" that other person--only yourself.
I think it is a true test of a person's character when they can survive a breakup without feeling the need to put the other person down and be able to hold their head up high despite what the other person's reactions are. You can be that person and let her say whatever she wants about you and realize that just because she thinks/says hateful things doesn't make them a reality. I would however, not allow myself to be around anyone who is mean to me. I would keep as much distance as I could and protect myself from being attacked. I have to stay sober--that is the most important thing in my life--and I cannot let anyone threaten that.
You are going through an extremely difficult time right now and try to keep that in mind when all those thoughts come rushing into your mind. I hope you don't feel the need to "get even" by retaliating and doing something out of hurt and/or anger. Let God handle her. Prayer is great. He is listening to you and has not deserted you. And don't apologize for posting and getting if off your chest. Better out than in. There are quite a few people on here who have been or are going through what you are and you are not alone.
(((((Enigma)))))
Pretty sure this program is all about honesty and that was an honest share. This is a wound. It's bleeding now and it is what it is. You will pass through stages of grieving as if she died because the marriage that you knew and the person you fell for (or thought you did) is lost to you.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
No I don't want to get even that would lower myself It would solve nothing and show bad character. Yes I know I'm QTIP. I don't want to have any contact with her though for my own health when she or anyone is being hurtful. My emotions have been mental last two days. From angry one minute to hurt and crying the next. This is the toughest thing I've ever done. Getting sober seemed way easy. Been a lot of hurt on both sides. There has to be forgiveness at least on my side of the street or this will make me go insane. I know it's draining. So let it begin with me. If I know the truth about myself that's all that matters and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about me. I don't have to think I'm a failure I did the best I new how at the time. At least I tried. I'm very HALT at the moment so I will take care of myself. I don't need to let someone drag me down with them. Thx for all the encouragement I could not get through this with out all your help and for that I am eternally grateful. The unconditional love in AA is amazing. Here I'm not judged for my faults and I am somebody who matters.
Thx
Enigma
Yes she is Lost to me. I just hope I don't lose myself. Please everyone stay close to me. Keep picking me up when I need to be carried. You are true friends and I have never met any of you. But your love surpasses any expectations I may have had about true fellowship.
When I was 19 I got married mostly because I wanted a sense of emotional stability that I didn't have in my home-life as I was growing up. It seemed to work for about 8 years (or, at least, I thought it did), but by the time year 14 rolled around, I finally realized that the emotional stability I wanted didn't exist in my marriage....truth is, it never did. I had developed acute insomnia and I'd been to about five or six different doctors to try to get over it. But, nothing worked. I was hypnotized and analyzed over and over again. Still nothing helped. I was like a walking zombie, dead on my feet all the time. And, of course, I was drinking like a fish. One morning I gathered up everything I could stuff into a Jeep CJ7, and I left....I filed for divorce two days later. I didn't hate her. She wasn't a bad person at all. I just couldn't stand living with her anymore.
I rented a small basement apartment from a friend and on the first night after I left, I slept all night.....and, I've slept like a baby ever since that day.
When I left the house and filed for divorce, my wife was livid, and declared that she hated me and that I'd never see my 14 year old son again.....going on an all-out campaign to turn my son against me. It was a hateful, brutal, bitter divorce from hell.
But, long-story-short, here's the miracle of it all: Today, 30 years later, my ex-wife and I are friends, and she has a great relationship with me, my son, and my present wife, and our two children. There is no left-over animosity, or resentment, or bad-blood. I call this a miracle because I know I never had the power to change this horrible situation. Long ago, I made my 9th Step amends to her, and I turned the whole nasty thing over to God and He changed it completely.
I guess the best way to close this is to say, when we work the Steps and leave the outcome to God, we never know the possibilities. I never ever dreamed that it would turn out this way. Today I'm still amazed by God's Power.
For me, getting "dry" was the easiest part. Getting "sober" is the hard part. And it is a "one day at a time" healing & recovery. It never ends.
You are right where you should be, we have all been there, and with the help of the others and our H.P. we began to face the truth rather than run from it.
Keep sharing and this too shall pass. For me the problem isn't the stinkin' drinkin' .. it's the stinkin' thinkin' .
Mike D....yours was a story with a happy ending and thank you for sharing.
Keep coming back, Enigma...to the meetings and this board. No, we won't desert you. I have had so much support on this board from wonderful people. I posted all kinds of things (and still do..ha!) and these guys are still as supportive, loving and kind as they were when I first came on here. It has been a major part of my recovery program. I am worried now about someone who was posting on here--actually several people who were early posters. However, there is one in particular who we were keeping in touch on a regular basis. I haven't heard from and hasn't posted and everyday I wonder how that person is doing. It is because I care. And I and other people on here care about you as well. Seems we all get rather close to one another and I have learned we never have to meet one another face to face to be able to have as much concern and compassion for others who we have met. Tearing up just thinking about all the love on here.
I am the biggest baby! I would rather be crying for this reason than crying in a beer, though, so it is ok.
Just remember THINGS WILL GET BETTER!!! Your thinking is on the right track and as long as you stay sober, dear friend, freedom and happiness will come into your life. I was a mess--a real disaster and thinking about ending it all and thank God I got sober and got into AA. My life has done a turn-around that had someone told me I would experience in less than a year of staying sober, I would have never believed them. Instead of doing steps into an ABC store I now am doing the Steps of AA--which have saved my life.
When I look back in my very early recovery...I'm still early in it. I already had a marriage of 17 years dead and buried and managed to get into another relationship at the end of my drinking....I really loved this girl....And I was hurt. But did I not put myself into a position to be hurt? Yeah...I did.
I found the grieving process was a double edged sword for me...Sure I was grieving the breakup with this lady....It hurt big time. But when I honestly look back on it....There was something else I was grieving....What is grief?
Grief is a natural response to loss. It is the emotional suffering one feels when something or someone the individual loves is taken away. (Wikipedia)
That something I loved was alcohol....The one thing that was always there for me...My solution to everything. I think I was hurting just as much from that as I was from the breakup. Painful. We get through this stuff Ron....Ask God to help you....Lean on AA and keep moving forward....It will pass. There is a line in the Doctor's Opinion that rings true for me....
To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one.
It was the only one I knew. I had to learn a new way to live. One day at a time....With help.
Well i really don't know what to say. My STBXW I love how after 15yrs of marriage someone can be so spitefull actually corrosive hate is more like it, a black soul. IDK who this monster is anymore. I'm glad she is starting a new chapter. Its sad that someone can't live on their own and be more mature but she is spiritually sick also. Crap i wouldn't do any of this stuff while active. I know anger is not a luxury i can afford. But i don't forgive her i'm not ready and willing. Too much pain and hurt. Someday i will but not now. I pray every day asking God to help me forgive her and that he gives her everything she needs to get healthy. I try to separate the person from the action but find it difficult. I will never let anyone do this to me ever again!!! I refuse to be a victim of manipulation and deceit!!! Its a shame cause i will never be able to trust like i should. I will always have my guard up. I know i deserve better cause i actually am comfortable in my own skin and can live on my own without relying on another man or woman for support, life skill, or to make me happy. I can't wait to get this shit hole joke of a marriage over with so i can move on. I think this marriage was about two things sex &support. Maybe at one time there was love but not now. Its been replaced with hate. I'm really sick of hating and being hated. It drains me when i have better things to do. When does the hate stop. I'm convinced she is not happy unless she can hate and have chaos. Its not about just me anymore this goes deeper and its not my sickness or responsibility to rescue or caretake anymore. I'm sick of being on the crazy train. But the sick shit is that i still care for her. I know i would never be with anyone who treats me this way. This is been a hard lesson learned and i will never put myself in this position. I can't change the past or present situation but i don't have to repeat it thank God. I actually feel so so sorry for her. Enough about her now its about me. I will be very selfish for me. My recovery and me come first always. I always told her that if i had to choose between drinking, insanity or her. It would never be her!!! Now I've chosen. Can't wait to get a new Apt. Can't wait to start my new job with every weekend off. I only have to work Monday &Wednesday which is schedule no new employee gets. God did take care of my job i'll tell you that much, it just fell in my lap so i am grateful for that. I don't mean to rant and rave tonite but i need to get this all out i can't hold it inside. I know i have to let it go. I know i have to drop the rock. But not before I'm done owning my emotions and my part in this. I can'y wait to put the past behind me. I pray to God not to hate her I'm a better person than this and its not the AA way nor does it have any spiritual values. Enough from me sorry if this offended anyone i just needed to vent its been building inside and could no longer be ignored. Now i can pause when agitated or doubtful tonite now that i got this off my chest.
When we were drink'n, ... we all built our relationships like a 'house of cards' ... ready to fall at any moment ... and when that happens, that house never seems to be able to be put back up, not that it should be ... I just wanted to point out that we, ourselves, can never expect to be 'forgiven' unless we first, are able to 'forgive' ... this begins a 'healing process' necessary for us to learn to 'let go' and 'let God' ... ... ... only then will the 'hate and anger' subside ... ... ...
Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I understand how you feel, Enigma, especially when it involves our family. It's like were fighting a losing battle long after the fighting has ceased. I need to remember two important truths, how far I've come, and more importantly how wide those arches stretch. And I need to remind myself, that some people will never change even if they could. It's like a huge cloud of uncertainty that never seems to disappear even on our best days. So I guess the only thing we can do is move on.
I spent a decent portion of the last 13 years trying to reconcile my past, mistakes and all, but all the searching lead me nowhere. I had an angry at myself, disgusted with the world attitude for such a long time, and that angered triggered a lot of bad memories I choose to forget. It's like I was suffering a fate that only alcoholics were accustomed too, but that was then.
Let's face it, the world was doing a fine job demonstrating a serious lack of control even without my participation, and when I wasn't battling my own demons I was battling someone else's. I became so overcome by 12 years of wicked nostalgic that I couldn't even take the first step. So I started wondering, could this be it? Is there anything else to life other than a world of complete despair?
I finally realized the honest truth just before my 41st birthday. At a certain point in time, it became less about struggling and more about recovery. It became less about 'what I can't do' or 'what I don't have' and more about who I am now, and where that can take me. I wanted to live each day like it was my last and each moment like it was my first. Basically: The more I fought those boundaries, the more I fought myself. And that's when the healing began.
A few days ago, I ran into one of my ex-wives at the local grocery store. It was another chance encounter that took me completely off guard, and one I was not expecting. The stories she shared were just as disheartening today as they were 17 years ago, even though my current family was not amused. All the surprising anecdotes were still there including those familiar tirades -the fights, numerous car wrecks, runaway ideas, huge investment losses, and a serious lack of understanding rarely seen during our relationship. She tried to 'egg me on' as best she could, insults and all, but my conscience got the best of me this time around. So I politely said my goodbyes and left. Then my current wife said something I needed to hear: Thank God those days are over. I couldn't agree more. I only hope my ex will see it that way, at least some day. One could only hope.
Then I began to remember one important truth: I got sober in the hopes of finding a way to live with myself, not because I expected it to solve my problems or someone else's. And of course, I cannot get through those challenges today without the support of everyone involved. I can also accept another important fact: I can't drink responsibly even if I knew what responsibility meant. I can now take a step back, breathe a sigh of relief, and let go of those urges once and for all. I need to remember: Life is way too short to ride the fence line, and as long as I dwell on past mistakes I can't align myself with present truths. I am missing entirely the very thing I've come to enjoy, sobriety for all its worth. And that's something none of us can afford. I only hope others agree. Onward.
-- Edited by Mr_David on Saturday 24th of May 2014 01:34:21 AM
I am blessed to have an ex who doesn't have the need to bring up all my sins of the past and how much I put him and my daughter through. He has either forgiven me for all of it, or is keeping it to himself. He has been extremely supportive of me the whole time I have been sober. Although he doesn't correspond with me as much as he did, I understand that he has gone way above and beyond for me and he probably needs some distance from me so that he can heal more and have closure.
I think anyone who has the need to put a recovering alcoholic through a tirade of "you did this, you did that's" probably still has their own resentments and anger they are hanging onto. Hopefully in time, they will be able to face them and deal with them in a more appropriate and healthy manner if they do not have the ability to forgive the alcoholic for them. I think when we truly forgive another, the need to bring things up over and over again will diminish greatly if not disappear completely. We alcoholics have beat ourselves up enough and deal with enough guilt and we also have to learn to be able to forgive ourselves.
BTYð
I couldn't agree with you more. I'm glad your husband forgave that's a blessing. I've had none of the support you have had at home but AA makes up for it. I know I have to forgive so God can heal what's broken inside of me. I think I have to put some boundaries in place for myself. The first probrably to avoid all contact right now until I heal a little more. I'm feeling serene today. I feel comfortable with my life in today at the moment. God bless you all. Of all the people God could have chosen he chose one alcoholic to help another. How humbling it is knowing that. I'm just keeping it in today. God has my day already planned for me. I just have to be available and willing to receive his grace.
Ron
Yupper....Every bit of contact? stirs up the raw emotions....In time....thatll heal...and those mental and emotional obsessions of the mind will disappear..
I remember when I thought that I had to forgive my ex for HER actions...
When I took a good look at it all?
I didn't have anthing to forgive her for..:)
Any actions she took..were a result of my actions..
And what she did after she called it quits? (as has been mentioned) were none of my business
Took me a while to get my head around that one..
You keep on truckin Bro!!
As you can see? A lot of caring and sharing people on this board..You are NOT alone
I am learning from your kind of thinking, Ron! I love this you posted.... "Of all the people God could have chosen he chose one alcoholic to help another. How humbling it is knowing that. I'm just keeping it in today. God has my day already planned for me. I just have to be available and willing to receive his grace."!
Any actions she took were a result of yours? I think not! How can one person take the blame for generations worth of dysfunction trickling down to the perfect dance of two very emotionally warped people??? I think that would be a little self righteous lol! People have to be as emotionally stunted as each other to be together. She was just as addicted to the drama as you, for reasons only she can uncover by looking at the shame of her past - with her understanding of God and working the steps - and that's just a fact.
Taking the blame for all of it can only keep her on the crazy train longer. If I take the blame, the other person never gets to see WHY they were attracted to an alcoholic or any person displaying symptoms of dysfunction in the first place. Allowing people to see their own crazy is the only way to give them the greatest most loving gesture of all: A bottom which might lead to seeking spiritual help :) If I take all the blame, I am taking away an opportunity for them to get better using the 12 steps I used. People don't just POOF become crazy when they meet an alcoholic... LOL! Unfortunately, there was a short time when I believed that... but looking at my own self righteousness and importance in my step work got me off that shame train, and onto detaching with love not only for myself, but also for another sick persons benefit.
We are equals on the path - no better or worse than the other. Only the Ego can tell us so. She is a sick friend my dear - so we pray for her and treat her as such.
Mr. David - I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVEd your post - what a great thread. Thanks everyone!
-- Edited by Tasha on Sunday 4th of May 2014 04:58:23 PM
That's really interesting - because it seems like a happy healthy person would have walked away. If she was conditioned to put up with bullshit and was spiritually sick already - she would have ever lowered her own standards right along side alcoholism. But - I don't know her, and I wasn't there. So I could be wrong. I don't take responsibility for other people being spiritually sick - just my actions that resulted from my own spiritual sickness. To each their own xoxoxoxo
They didn't allow it? Healthy people can recognize unwell people though right? Like today - as a 'relatively' healthy person, I would never allow crazy in my life - of really any kind - not just alcoholism. I would potentially recognize it and set it down for everyone's sake - as a result of working the 12 steps, living with my understanding and conscious contact with HP - and allowing myself to be most useful to God?
To me - when I was essentially spiritually bankrupt - I would have hopped on board anyone's kind of crazy without having a clue = but this program offers me boundaries and a solution for having to live like that... ???? I am interested what I'm missing here... truly curious Phil because I am certainly still learning and walking into this with eyes of wonder - not trying to argue... just learn.
Lets take it over to PM so we can discuss it without it appearing as if a quarrel. I know both you and I have reached a point where we cease fighting anyone or anything... see ya there?
To be honest? I pretended that I was ok...Maybe better then ok...I attracted many into my world that were as sick as I was...I also attracted many who were healthy...
Hmmm. Ok - I will consider that then. I can't see that in my past - I was usually the one who was getting dragged through the mud... bending over backwards... people pleasing... pushover... overly responsible and care taking trying to win love etc etc... couldn't ever get it 'right' and would run to the closet to chug some wine to drown out the impossible feat of being perfect to attain affection and validation.
Enigma...
Just keep in mind that your thoughts are your own and your feelings are your own and no matter what anyone says in or outside AA you are entitled to feel and think what you want to.
BTY
It is very important for me to understand that recovery is a process just as the progressive nature of our disease. It took me progressive years to get to the near fatal point that I got to before finding and accepting recovery. First I found it and then I had to come to accept it. There was so much I had to learn and since I didn't get here overnight I wouldn't learn all I needed and then wanted to know over night either. My early sponsorship use to talk to me about "half life" sobriety...that point where my recovery time equaled my drinking time. I'm in my 70ies and still haven't reached that point.
I had to come to understand how badly I had hurt others when I was alcoholic and part of the hurt was that I had the attitude and presentation that I didn't care if they were hurt so I welded the door shut on many of those resentments which others held against me and then I had to learn to respect them for their thoughts, feelings, behaviors and spirits they employed for protection against it ever happening again. Lets face it...when I was drinking I broke the code of unconditional love and respect with, family, friends and others and now I had to adjust my expectations with acceptance. I hurt people and then I learned that like myself I left them at times with the impression that they had done something unknown to themselves that they had caused it and therefore were at fault.
My last major apology and amend process to a father and son that I had assaulted came 22 years after the event and my entry into this program that changes lives. I had not remembered the event and my HP did. Evidently my HP thought my program was strong enough to complete that missing 8th and 9th step because it was my HP who put their names on the list of people I had seriously harmed. I went 52 hundred miles, round trip and wasn't able to follow thru because a few hidden justifications lingered on the page. A couple of years later I made the trip again and I knew more with the help of the fellowship, my sponsorship and my HP and I made contact. Lo and behold on the phone call alone I heard, "Oh we know who your are"!! and the father agreed to meet. On the next phone call I heard, "What the hell did I do to deserve what you did to me"?...They had lived 22 years with the event, daily, holding on to the assault trying to figure what their part was in it and never hearing what my part was in it. It was an amazing telling lesson which reminds me today that I never had or have control over how deeply I hurt others with what I do...they too have their thoughts and feeling and my business is about reconciliation. They let me meet with them in their home and I learned that their lives had changed over and over since I left except for that one event...the assault by an alcoholic...my choice to drink and be married to an other alcoholic/addict. I could have made apology to the entire neighborhood because there were others who were stunned by it and didn't understand and then it was done as directed. In the end both father and son were stunned not because they then knew it wasn't any of their choosing and that it was active alcoholism and drug addict but because the amend/apology process ever came to be. "We never thought anything like this could ever happen" was what I was told and when there were no remain expectations of me I left. HP opened the door out as HP had held it open to get in.
I will never tell one of my victims that "it wasn't so bad" or "get over it that was back then" or "Shit happens" or the like. I know what it feels like to be deeply hurt and I will allow anyone I have hurt as much time or more to elude and be free of the pain as I had. Compassion and Empathy and understanding don't have time limits.
Great share and thanks for the ESH for those who shared. ((((hugs))))
-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 4th of May 2014 11:18:26 PM
-- Edited by Jerry F on Sunday 4th of May 2014 11:19:42 PM
