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Post Info TOPIC: Spirituality and Alcoholism


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Spirituality and Alcoholism
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Hi All,

It's been a while. Still holding on dearly to my sobriety, and I had an experience that I wanted to share.

Over the weekend, I was at a birthday party when I found myself talking to an in-law who is a self-proclaimed "spiritual advisor" by education and trade. She is also an alcoholic. This woman was telling me that over the weekend, she had facilitated a spiritual retreat, during which she lead numerous spiritual activities ranging from chanting to prayer to meditation. I was intrigued because she was telling me all of this through a cloud of boozy affect. In the way an alcoholic does, she was slurring and talking far too much and thinking herself significantly more interesting than she actually was. I've been there many, many nights myself so I just listened.

This got me thinking to myself, though: is it possible to be genuinely spiritual and an actively-drinking alcoholic? I would never have the audacity to judge whether or not someone's spiritual experiences are or are not "authentic", but speaking for myself I can say that when actively drinking, booze was my higher power and the god to whom I knelt. Everything came second to what Pappy refers to as King Alcohol (I've always liked that). I feel like the same is true for many alcoholics, which makes me feel as though someone who is an actively-drinking alcoholic probably isn't the ideal person to be leading others in spiritual spaces. But I could be wrong.

I hope that makes sense and doesn't sound judgmental. I guess it just made me think to myself that I never really understood spirituality until I stopped drinking. For me, in order to stop drinking, I had to muster more faith in my higher power than I ever had before and as a result saw more of my higher power than I ever thought possible. While actively drinking, I always *wanted* to be spiritual and often thought myself enlightened, but at the same time would think and say cruel things while drunk, would obliterate learning opportunities by getting drunk, would inhibit my creativity and reflection by getting drunk, and was slowly killing myself. I think sobriety, for me, takes so much energy from and trust in my higher power that I feel like the days of getting drunk and talking about spirituality were a sham.

I don't know if any of that makes sense, but it's been making me think a lot and so I figured I would share. I hope all of you are doing wonderfully.

-A



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When every situation which life can offer is turned to the profit of spiritual growth, no situation can really be a bad one.-Paul Brunton



MIP Old Timer

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I was always or at least often "spiritual" when I drank and then I learned it was called mind and mood altering. lol     Prayer (conversation) and meditation (focus) for me are now constant practice.  Someone in program here once gave me the book "When man listens, God speaks" which is kinda a twist on the usual idea and the main operation of prayer...listening first.   For me spirituality isn't solely about the "other" state.  Often times it is how I am motivated to move, act, accomplish.  "My spirit is energized to complete the task I intention".    Kinda sorta could be an altered state without mind and mood altering chemicals.    Listening to what comes up behind this.   smile



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MIP Old Timer

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Some enter our rooms with a religious background

Some come in with an atheist background and

Some do so with a spiritual background

I believe that I was one that was spiritual...but I never used it as a step two and three..re alcoholism...because I was in complete denial..as to an alcohol problem...and insanity ruled :)



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MIP Old Timer

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Glad you are well Adam. I think there is sprituality in all of us....Drunk or not. I know for myself....Stopping drinking wasn't enough to find it. I had to remove what was blocking me from it. That's what those 12 steps are for...Removing what obscures it...Steps 4 through 9. And giving us a design to live to keep it that way....Steps 10, 11 and 12.



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When all else fails...Follow the directions.



MIP Old Timer

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AdamMoz wrote:

 

This got me thinking to myself, though: is it possible to be genuinely spiritual and an actively-drinking alcoholic? I would never have the audacity to judge whether or not someone's spiritual experiences are or are not "authentic", but speaking for myself I can say that when actively drinking, booze was my higher power and the god to whom I knelt. Everything came second to what Pappy refers to as King Alcohol (I've always liked that). I feel like the same is true for many alcoholics, which makes me feel as though someone who is an actively-drinking alcoholic probably isn't the ideal person to be leading others in spiritual spaces. But I could be wrong.

 


 Super great post Adam, ... it's good to hear from you and to know you're doing well ... 

Ya know?, ... I feel it 'possible' to have one foot in the 'spiritual door' so to speak and yet have the other inside the 'make believe' door ... ... ... meaning I don't think I would be 'genuinely' spiritual if I subjected myself to mind altering substances ... cause when I did in the past, my mind would tell me things, or I would think things that were based on lies and untrue realities ... I could not be sincere when praying in this 'state of mind' because I could not think 'clearly' ... it was like I was a different person ... I think God was asking me then, "Will the real Pappy please stand up" ... ... ... 

The Big Big Book says we CANNOT serve two masters ... ... ... cause we will love the one and despise the other ... 

King Alcohol was my master for a very long time ... and this biggest best 'change' I ever made in my life is to stop serving him and start serving God instead ... and I cannot serve God and drink like I did before ... and as an alcoholic, that means I cannot even drink 'just one' ... ... ... AA and its fellowship did this for me, cause I surely couldn't have stopped on my on ... 

 

Love ya man and God Bless,

Pappy



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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'



MIP Old Timer

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Adam! Hello!


Nice to see your post - always love them.


The light in my spirit says - honor the body you've been given. I don't believe I am do that when I'm drinking since I'm allergic to alcohol and it can kill me.

The light in my spirit also says - honor all the gifts offered to this Earth. So this woman therefor - is a gift, and my main focus is to discover the ways in which I am capable of honoring her. Sometimes for me - honoring someone is to stay away from them and let them hit a bottom with whatever it is that's keeping them from facing the pain in their lives. For her... maybe she has an addiction to religion or spirituality (this is a real mind and mood altering drug for some, there is an internal drug store inside of us too - endorphins, adrenaline and melatonin to chemically block pain). She could be dually addicted to an external drug and her internal ones - or swap them out - juggle multiple addictions... and to truly love someone with any addiction(s) - we have to get out of the way of the bottom. It's hard to love from afar when we love so much and just want to help or fix it. When I'm okay with me - I don't need that external validation that 'hit's' my own internal drugstore that I get from fixing people.


Sometimes honoring someone is just being the change I want to see and leaving the results to the universe.

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Thanks for everything.  Peace and Love on your journey.  



MIP Old Timer

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Well said Tash ... thanks



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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'



MIP Old Timer

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Great post Adam

Great to see you , hope all is well in your world .

When I got here I often heard "it is Not Saints Anonymous"

my take on that , was . That God is here for All , not just the

Sunday morning mob .



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Rick.

@ 37 I was too young & good looking to be an alkie.

still too young , still got th good looks. still n alkie.



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Thank you all for the insights! As always, I enjoy reading your thoughts. And, good to see you all as well :)

-Adam

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When every situation which life can offer is turned to the profit of spiritual growth, no situation can really be a bad one.-Paul Brunton



MIP Old Timer

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As far as being spiritual when I was drinking...I do remember praying alot I wouldn't throw up or die during my sleep when I was drunk.


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