I wish I'd had this MIP board available to me years ago. It's great. Even though I've always had an A.A. sponsor to answer my questions and concerns about whatever Step I was presently working on, I always found that many of my answers often came from those around the tables who were willing to help and share their own personal experience in working the Steps. Sometimes an old timer would say the very same thing my own sponsor had told me, but perhaps he'd say it in a slightly different way that got through to me -- or, in such a way that I'd never heard before. Varied perspectives and insights from other A.A. members have helped me a great deal throughout my sobriety. And, especially when I was pretty new to the Program, I was always delighted to hear vigorous discussion of the Steps.
This whole board is a wealth of sobriety and Step experience. And, I know that there are many here who really want to reach out and help others. That's why I was wondering if there are any of you who might have questions, or perhaps having a problem working a particular Step?
If so, I'll bet you could find plenty of help here. Fire away.
That's a great idea Mike D.....I also would have used this site...this valuable tool in working my steps. I have a sponsor who was a great help to me....Hearing my fifth step and giving me guidance on my ninth step....But I had a host of oldtimers I would bounce ideas off of and ask questions. A stable of sponsors...And I used them. The directions in the book are clear cut....And that is the path we have to follow to recover exactly as they did....But I liked getting different perspectives fom people that had done it. All I wanted was this program of recovery to work for me...To experience what was promised if I simply put in the effort. I can say today....It works. It really does.
Thanks for responding, Stepchild. Much like yourself, all I wanted was this Program to work for me....and it did work. It changed my life. I got a whole lot of help from a whole lot of people along the way, and I always appreciated that. So many times I heard it said that this is a "we" Program, and that's always proved to be true for me. Thanks again, Mike D.
What a great post, Mike D. I have come to this board for all kinds of advice and this is one of the most important things about staying sober--working the steps--from what I have heard from you and others.
Sometimes have to remind myself to work the 11th step. I work Sundays so haven't been able to go to church. I forget to pray at times. I need to work harder to maintain concious contact. I also have tried meditation and it hasn't clicked. I say I am open minded, but when my sponsor said to go try a buddhist meditation thing, I didn't. I have refused yoga recommendations too and been like "nope...not me." Almost like I am stubbornly choosing to be wound and stressed thinking if I was serene and "with the spirit" all the time, I'd be lazy - Also, the "stressed" part is one that wants to do work 'perfectly" and get promotions and such and that might not be God's will for me...that's MY WILL most likely. God's will is more likely to continue helping others as best I can in this profession I have been led to. These things are elements of emotional sobriety that still needs work.
So yeah, I suck at step 11. We talk so much about steps 1 through 3 because newcomers struggle with these and also 4 through 9 because people avoid them and get drunk. Wondering how people worked step 11. I'm trying I guess, but I feel I could do better.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Step 10 is kind of a tough one for me sometimes. At the end of the day sometimes the last thing I want to do is take my own inventory. Sometimes I do it and sometimes I don't. I have a notebook and do it in written form.
Promptly admitting when I'm wrong? Yeah, that is one I'm definitely still working on.
Hey Pinkchip, It's great to hear from you. Gotta tell you that I always like to hear what you have to say on this board because it's always good thoughtful stuff -- the kind of sharing that really helps people.
Hope you won't mind if I chime in on your post about the Eleventh Step. You probably wouldn't believe how many people who have worked all the other Steps say that they have trouble with Step 11. They usually tell me that prayer isn't really too much of a problem -- it's meditation. Yep, meditation is almost always the big problem. So, you're definitely not alone in this. Actually, you wouldn't believe how many people I've heard say things very similar to what you stated -- that meditation doesn't "click" for them, or it doesn't seem to work, or they just can't do it. Therefore, a lot of folks just skip that part of Step 11 because they think they've tried it and failed at it.
Here's where I always tell them that I once felt the same way. I almost gave up on meditation at Step 11 myself. But, I've gotta tell you that I'm really glad I didn't, because it turned out to be a life-changing Step for me. One of the first things I learned about meditation is that the only way I can fail at meditation is to fail to take the action of meditation. I also learned that one significant mistake I was making is that I was expecting to feel certain spiritual feelings during meditation -- and, when I didn't seem to feel the feelings I thought I was supposed to feel, I thought I was failing. Since that time, I've learned that meditation is a spiritual action....just like all the previous Steps are spiritual actions. It's not about feeling euphoric spiritual feelings. You see, my perception of what meditation is needed to change before I could ever succeed at it. When I began thinking of meditation as an action, it soon became something I could do.
To define it simply, meditation is merely taking a small portion of inspirational written words and pondering them, or just thinking about them for a period of time.
As we know, there are a lot of different ways that different people approach meditation, but I'll show you the very simple way that I do it:
1.) I start by taking a couple of deep breaths, and I spend a few moments in prayer. Sometimes I read a written prayer that I like, or I just talk to God in a spontaneous way. If nothing else, you could say the Serenity Prayer.
2.) Next, I open up one of my A.A. devotional books and read the passage for that day. I think about what the words are saying to me, and I sort of roll them around in my mind for a while. I try to think about how those words could apply to me, and how they might fit into my life. Then, I read the words again more slowly, and ponder them further. I try to picture how those words could change my actions in my daily life. I might do this for 5 or 10 minutes, or sometimes 20 minutes....sometimes longer.
3.) When I'm ready, I end my meditation time with a few more moments of prayer.
Done!
Kind of simple isn't it? Try it each day for a couple of weeks and I think you'll see how easy it is.
Well, as you can see, we don't have to become some sort of spiritual gurus, or Trappist monks to work Step 11. We can make it as simple, or as complicated as we want to.
The big thing I want to leave you with is that prayer and meditation at Step 11 are actions that change us inside just like all the other Steps changed us inside. Focus on taking the action, and never mind your feelings.....and, when you get distracted by other thoughts, just ignore them. Distractions are part of our humanity....they're normal for everyone.
Hope this helps a bit. Thanks for letting me share, Mike D.
Oh wow, wow, wow, Mike ... I have tried and tried to explain to my sponsees what you just so eloquently described regarding meditation ... You managed to get the right words out to explain how simple it really is ... and I totally agree with you ... I have, and do, the same thing ... and it is usually using one of the daily posts I make here ... you know?, like the 'Sunrise' quote, or the 'Today's Gift' ... ... ...
I've heard many say that they pray in the a.m. and follow that with meditation where they listen for the answers, from God ... it never worked that way for me ... I always had to concentrate, or focus, on a daily reading of some kind, and sit and ponder it's application to my life ... it has made life itself have a much deeper meaning than it would have had otherwise ... thank you so much for this thread and posts ... absolutely perfect!!!
Love ya man and God Bless, Pappy
P.S. AND I shall have to steal your post to PC and save it for reference in the future ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
The unmanageable part seems easy to work through, but my temporary sponsor asked me to focus on powerlessness and things I feel powerless over.
Other than drinking, I don't have a lot. I am a big accountability type personality so I am naturally good at finding the things that fell apart due to my drinking. The tough part for me is that I've always had the belief that you have the power to make the needed changes in your life.
T'is the nature of my struggle - this program doesn't necessarily fit my natural tendencies and getting outside of self is not my strong suit.
I am comforted to know that the victory is in the effort and discovery along the way and not a quick result.
I look at the first half of step one as admitting I'm powerless over alcohol. Just as it's written.
This summed me up pretty good.
The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the power of choice in drink. Our so-called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.
BB pg 24
-- Edited by Stepchild on Monday 17th of February 2014 10:17:25 PM
I hear people in meetings say they are powerless over people, places and things. I don't admit to that. I disagree with it. I was powerless over alcohol. Working those 12 steps I found a power that solved my problem.
Lack of power, that was our dilemma. We had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power? Well, that's exactly what this book is about. Its main object is to enable you to find a Power greater than yourself which will solve your problem.
BB pg 45
My problem....Was alcohol.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Monday 17th of February 2014 11:28:26 PM
Hi Rubytuesday, You're very right when you say that Step 10 can be a tough one. But, if you're writing things down in a notebook, you're certainly trying to work the Step. It sounds like the biggest problem you're having is just plain old consistency, or doing it regularly. I can easily understand that. There are days when we come home and we're way too tired to think, let alone write anything down on paper. I wish there were some quick and easy "tip" I could give you but, for me, it's a matter of just making myself do it, and doing it regularly. Doing something I don't feel like doing was always the hard part for me -- probably because I can be so undisciplined at times. Yet, over time, I did discover what I'll call my "secret weapon" -- prayer. Beginning with a short prayer, asking for help, I sit quietly and let my conscience be my guide. Things I've said, or done throughout the day will seem to rise to the top of my mind -- and when they do, I jot them down. Then I pray for the help I need to resolve them the next day. If you keep that notebook in front of you during your morning prayers, you'll probably have a better chance of making those amends.
It sounds like you're trying. The main thing is just keep it going...one day at a time. It's a journey.
I sure hope this is somewhat helpful. Lots of other folks will surely have some good input, too.
I agree with stepchild about not being powerless over all people, places, and things. I do think there is some value in trying to find other things in life that you are powerless over just because it's a humbling experience and it takes you out of the role of "director of the play" so to speak. The point is that there is much you don't have power over and in our active stage, we stress and spent useless energy trying to control and exert power over things we can't and this makes the world intolerable and we drink over it.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
The point is that there is much you don't have power over and in our active stage, we stress and spent useless energy trying to control and exert power over things we can't and this makes the world intolerable and we drink over it.
I think this is what you are talking about here PC...
Selfishness - self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles. Driven by a hundred forms of fear, self-delusion, self-seeking, and self-pity, we step on the toes of our fellows and they retaliate. Sometimes they hurt us, seemingly without provocation, but we invariably find that at some time in the past we have made decisions based on self which later placed us in a position to be hurt.
So our troubles, we think, are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves, and the alcoholic is an extreme example of self-will run riot, though he usually doesn't think so. Above everything, we alcoholics must be rid of this selfishness. We must, or it kills us! God makes that possible. And there often seems no way of entirely getting rid of self without His aid. Many of us had moral and philosophical convictions galore, but we could not live up to them even though we would have liked to. Neither could we reduce our self-centeredness much by wishing or trying on our own power. We had to have God's help.
BB pg 62
And what do we need to do to rid ourselves of self?
There is a solution.
Almost none of us liked the self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings which the process requires for its successful consummation. But we saw that it really worked in others, and we had come to believe in the hopelessness and futility of life as we had been living it. When, therefore, we were approached by those in whom the problem had been solved, there was nothing left for us but to pick up the simple kit of spiritual tools laid at our feet.
BB pg 24
The steps.
They tell us that self-searching, the leveling of our pride, the confession of shortcomings are REQUIRED for this thing to work. Sounds like we have to work those steps to me.
I will say I am powerless over some people...If you don't think you are...Go punch a cop in the face. Some places.....I'd really like to go to the sun. Some things and situations...I can't make someone else stop drinking....Or make someone else willing to do the steps.
Yep. Pretty much. And I can see that if a person worked steps 4 through 9 well, they would know when to stop trying to exert power and control at inappropriate times. So yes. The answer is also in the rest of the steps.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
The first part of the first step is most constant work for me. It is mind set and behavior set for me because I was most naturally a risk taker just as the psycological profile of the alcoholic says. I use to never think or assume in matters of being powerless and that fit my compulsive drinking nature just fine. I drank because I could period. To come to the minds set of considering now that "I am powerless and then to constantly work that perception with myself is full time work for me still. I don't break out in a sweat...I stay conscious of my powerlessness and I feed the awareness always. I know what the chemical and the obsession with it can do for me. I still know intimately how little if anything I knew about alcohol and the disease that is named after it when I first approached the idea of looking for information about? Step 11 has been a life time practice only interrupted in the past by alcohol and not now. My former prayer practice use to contain alot of talking from my end and often that was "pleading"...Today I know that God knows and wishes me to "keep it simple" when speaking so much so that the 3rd step prayer has been abrieviated in respect to the relationship. I wake up and relax and then ask "Place me where you want me. Tell me what to do". I, with the help of my sponsor learned that I could meditate 24/7 no matter what I am doing including coming to MIP. The meditation was to be on a spiritual truth that I could hold within my being. It had to be real and truth and powerful. My constant meditation is "God is". My mind does not entertain an extention beyond "is".
Considering the outcomes the consequences of working these steps and my continued willingness to live them; I don't have much of a problem. It really then isn't work is it?
I think some of the school of thought about how we should accept we are powerless over everything but self comes from stories added to the book and the rest of the self-help movement. This also occured to me when I thought about acceptance is the answer (particularly the last sentence):
And acceptance is the answer to all my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation -- some fact of my life -- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment.
Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake. Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes.
It does not say "You are powerless over everything but yourself and your attitudes" but it does sort of hint toward that this is an inside job and don't waste time thinking you have power to change things outside of self that you do not. What do you think stepchild? I guess it still can mean do a 4 through 9 and stop acting like self-will run riot.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Let's not get too carried away with powerlessness....I don't want to confuse shydryguy.We've lost the power of choice in drink. We are powerless over alcohol...We need to find a power that will solve our problem...Remove it...Make it not exist. That's what the steps are for. Finding that power.
Let's look at the directions for step one. This is a one time step that shouldn't be struggled with. You either concede...Or you hold on to some of your old ideas...Maybe it will be different...Maybe I can have just one. That doesn't work.
We learned that we had to fully concede to our innermost selves that we were alcoholics. This is the first step in recovery. The delusion that we are like other people, or presently may be, has to be smashed.
BB pg 24
If you've done this...There shouldn't be a shred of doubt about where one drink will take you. You've smashed the idea you are or ever will be a normal drinker. The remaining steps are our design for living without alcohol. That's where we get spiritually fit...And in the process the obsession to drink is lifted...That's the miracle of it...Like the book says. If that hasn't happened...Then something is missing. I can tell you for myself...If I had to fight that everday...I'd be drunk or dead.
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol.
BB pg 84
This happens after we worked the first nine steps...Sometimes during.
I don't have to revisit step one. I got it...Deep down inside...I know I'm alcoholic. I do need to remain vigilant to keep my spiritual condition fit. Steps 10, 11, and 12 done on a daily basis. As long as I do that....The problem doesn't exist.
Thanks for all the responses re step1 - VERY HELPFUL!
I am really trying to get to a good place with step1 ... I think my overall success in this battle relies on how well I wrap my brain around the fact that I am an alcoholic and that there is no "normal drinking" in my future. My outpatient treatment program has a first step (not an AA step1) that I will present to the group and I think they ask you to focus on the areas of your life that have become unmanageable. I have already started meditating on this and taking notes as to how I used alcohol to mess up parts of my life. I have a group that I trust and enjoy spending sessions with so I want to be prepared and get the maximum benefit from that assignment.
Powerlessness is not something I go around thinking or feeling in my life. I believe than everybody has the power to change and don't get too caught up in feeling powerless to change others. I hold people to their actions and words - I don't want the power to change them, but admit to wanting to help them make those changes. I have taken myself out of bad relationships, given up dead-end jobs and gotten away from friendships that were harmful to me. I am far from perfect, but I look for chances to exercise my power to change things that are bad for me and usually follow through on that change.
This of course does not apply to my relationship with alcohol. This sneaky disease has a way of attacking you at even your strongest fronts. I think I will try to have coffee with my sponsor on sunday morning and talk with him about this. I feel like I can really gain some ground on identifying how unmanageable my life gets with alcohol, but I don't really see how searching for other bouts with powerlessness is helping me right now. Maybe things will be different in the future when I go through the steps again, but right now the only thing I feel powerless over is drinking (not the craving that first one, but my ability to stop at three beers).
While I think I have had more than my share of humble pie over the last few weeks, I fight every day with not trying to be the director of my own play.
We have the options in life to choose many different directions we wish to go ... BUT, for me, alcohol started making my choices for me, leading me down a path of destruction ... that's simply what it does for alcoholics like me ... I discovered I was not powerless over many things, but alcohol I had no control over ... yeah, I could go a day or two drinking only a few beers, but it ALWAYS led me back to drinking all day long ...
I had to come to believe that there is indeed a power greater than me, a power of the universe, for me, God ... and as soon as I humbled myself enough to ask this power for help, things immediately started to get better ... this is a spiritual program, and for me, no progress was to be made until I surrendered to this fact ... I pray you experience this life changing discovery soon ...
I know you're an atheist, but I hope you'll reconsider what our BB says:
At some of these we balked. We thought we could find an easier, softer way. But we could not. With all the earnestness at our command, we beg of you to be fearless and thorough from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our old ideas and the result was nil until we let go absolutely. Remember that we deal with alcohol-cunning, baffling, powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is One who has all power-that One is God. May you find Him now! Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the turning point. we asked His protection and care with complete abandon.
Love ya man and God Bless, Pappy
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Saturday 22nd of February 2014 07:35:15 AM
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Sounds like you have have a pretty good grip on step one SDG...When they talk about concede to our innermost self....Remember the opposite of concede is deny. It's a matter of getting honest with yourself...That your drinking days are over...FOR GOOD. One drink wiill kill us.
It would be very helpful for you to study the Big Book on the first two steps....Where they say on page 60 they make them real clear...
Our description of the alcoholic, the chapter to the agnostic, and our personal adventures before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were alcoholic and could not manage our own lives. (b) That probably no human power could have relieved our alcoholism. (c) That God could and would if He were sought.
The description of the alcoholic is the Doctor's Opinion and the first 3 chapters....Step 1.
The chapter to the agnostic is Chapter 4....Step 2.
Personal adventures...The stories they tell about Bill, Fred, Jim in the front...And the stories after. This is a good part on page 52 where they talk about unmanageability....Or....Our human problems.
But in most fields our generation has witnessed complete liberation of our thinking. Show any longshoreman a Sunday supplement describing a proposal to explore the moon by means of a rocket and he will say "I bet they do it - maybe not so long either." Is not our age characterized by the ease with which we discard old ideas for new, by the complete readiness with which we throw away the theory or gadget which does not work for something new which does?
We had to ask ourselves why we shouldn't apply to our human problems this same readiness to change our point of view. We were having trouble with personal relationships, we couldn't control our emotional natures, we were a prey to misery and depression, we couldn't make a living, we had a feeling of uselessness, we were full of fear, we were unhappy, we couldn't seem to be of real help to other people - was not a basic solution of these bedevilments more important than whether we should see newsreels of lunar flight? Of course it was.
When we saw others solve their problems by a simple reliance upon the Spirit of the Universe, we had to stop doubting the power of God. Our ideas did not work. But the God idea did.
All those things listed in bold...All of them....Applied to my life at the end of my drinking career. It doesn't get much more unmanageable than that. I want to say SDG...I admire your willingness to take this on and ask questions....I love to see that....You're actually doing it. I like what Doctor Bob said in his story....
If you think you are an atheist, an agnostic, a skeptic, or have any other form of intellectual pride which keeps you from accepting what is in this book, I feel sorry for you. If you still think you are strong enough to beat the game alone, that is your affair. But if you really and truly want to quit drinking liquor for good and all, and sincerely feel that you must have some help, we know that we have an answer for you. It never fails, if you go about it with one half the zeal you have been in the habit of showing when you were getting another drink.
DR. Bob's Nightmare
Onward SDG....!!
-- Edited by Stepchild on Saturday 22nd of February 2014 04:31:51 PM
It wouldn't be insanity for me because I would expect the same results - I am seeking the will and the power to avoid that first drink, not perfect the science of having a few. That ship has sailed more than too many times for me.
I never feel stupid about asking questions...I figure if I could have done this without help, I'd be doing it already. I am just trying my best to be honest with my AA brothers and sisters, straight with my sponsor and committed to sobriety. I am going to catch a meeting in the morning and then read your suggestions over coffee - thanks for the help.
