Will I always be a jerk?

Butterfinger · Senior Member

Will I always be a jerk?

billyjack · Senior Member

Well, you sober up a horse thief, then all you got is a sober horse thief. Read the spiritual experience in the back of the big book and count how many times it says change or uses words that describe change.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Drinking was only a symptom of our problem ... the problem is how we think ... and that, of course precedes how we act ...

For me, while working the AA program, I learned it took practice ... practice to start thinking good and right thoughts, which led to the disappearing of those 'traits' you mentioned ... this, for me again, included working on my HP conception, which is God, and developing a close relationship with Him/Her ... ... ... like the BB describes ...

So, over time, and with enough practice, my old traits don't play the role in my life like they once used to ... and I feel much better about me and who I've become ... I know now, I must continue this 'practice' thingy in order to maintain my sobriety AND a healthy personality ... (mostly achieved through a conscious contact with God on a daily basis ...) (you know, to constantly seek to do His Will rather than mine ... that way I can stay 'out of self' ...) ...

hecramsey2 · Member

This is a long process. Have I stopped being a jerk? I'm way less jerky, but not 0% jerk. something that has changed is I don't see my jerky behavior as being a jerk, I just did something jerky. The difference between judgement and judgementalism is if I see Bob slack off at work and say "that bob sure slacks off at work" that is a judgement. If I say "that bob is a fool because he slacks off at work" that is judgemental, global. I guess I have stopped being so judgemental of myself. AA is not about self improvement but self acceptance.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oppositional_defiant_disorder

Butterfinger · Senior Member

justadrunk wrote:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki /Oppositional_defiant_disorder

Shortest Tasha post to date.

Usually I just wait for the movie version of her activeboard novels :)

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Butterfinger wrote:
I can be condescending, argumentative, confrontational, flippant, impatient and difficult.

Sounds pretty human to me. I don't think you have any serious disorders other than being just that.

tomsteve · Senior Member

what step are ya on?

RubyTues · MIP Old Timer

For me it's practicing the steps every day that has led to real changes in the way I am.

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

I love to read your posts BF I get great feedback from the responses lol and then I work it in my life. This post brings up a face to face I once has with my sponsor Don T. where after I asked what should I do to change it he responded with "Just stop it"!! How I feel and act is about choice and I am responsible for the choice and the consequence....not so rocket science. j He also told me..."Choose the outcome you want and then do the behavior to get it"...how much more simple does it get....duh. smile

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Your description sounds like typical alcoholic character defects. Ones to be worked in a step 4 through 9. They may not go away completely but you will suffer them less.I also don't buy into Oppositional Defiant Disorder for adults. Yeah, it can be diagnosed, but it's really a disorder of childhood. People with some, but not enough education in psychology throw that around along with other disorders they don't know about.

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

One thing to keep in mind though - James is an adult child of a dysfunctional family - he has shared about this many times in his nearly decade long adventure here on this site. This makes him stunted emotionally as if he is still a child - there for the disorder - while basically just the description of any alcoholic, can be fitting for him or any other adult child.

There is great literature out there on ACOA, adult children of alcoholics, now called ACA - adult children of dysfunctional families. James, one of my favorites, since I am also an adult child and work that program - is life skills for adult children, and I also like the big red book - although it's huge and overwhelming, the yellow workbook is a little less intimidating. There is no shame in acknowledging that we are children still emotionally - facing it and getting out of that denial that we are just children in adult bodies because of our shameful upbringing, is the first step. That and coming to terms with not being able to change our past. All things that AA also touches on, but I have found it tremendously helpful to work both programs.

Love you James -

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

I try not to label people with mental disorders out of love. It's not my focus if he's ACOA here or not as this AA. Going to other programs before having a strong enough AA program will put you at risk for a Mish mosh of new agey goo instead of the same program that's worked for all of us for years. Alanon has been good for me but I was not ready for other programs until I had over 2 years sober. Just me though...and my opinion...and opinions are like...

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Really? Wow.

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

Didn't mean to sound all a-holey. AA is a program I think BF has resisted and over complicated in the past and is now grasping (hallefreakinglujah). The answer to his specific question is in the steps of AA. Sorry JAD...I posted while in my own little halt mode. I know what you are doing is working for you and your ESH is valued and reasonable too.

Mike D · MIP Old Timer

Getting sober and staying sober for a period of time changed nothing inside me, nor did it change anything about my personality. It was working all 12 of the Steps that changed everything.

Mike D.

2granddaughters · Senior Member

As HOW IT WORKS says:
"What an order! I can't go through with it. Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain anything like perfect adherence to these principles. We are not saints. The point is, that we were willing to grow along spiritual lines. The principles we have set down are guides to progress. We claim spiritual progress rather than spiritual perfection."

All the best.

Bob R

bikerbill · MIP Old Timer

Butterfinger....hi, welcome to real life, sober style. Simple answer to a simple question. Will I always be a jerk? NO! Why? You never were. Sometimes you behave that way but I'll bet this month's paycheck you spot it quicker. Next course of action is spot it, change it and if necessary make amends for it. We're not bad people we just sometimes behave badly.

tomsteve · Senior Member

adult child...weren't most of us when we came into AA?
i stopped growin mentally and emotionally when i took my 1st drink. so when i got into AA at 38, i was 13 mentally and emotionally.

"So what's the deal with that huh?"

2granddaughters posted one of my favorite parts of the BB. what i read is progress- you notice the character defects, what they are causing, and you don't want that happening any more. working the program will help. part of that is putting out of my mind the wrongs others had done and lookin for my own mistake- where i was to blame; not anyone else.

reads like yer ready to do that, butterfinger.

2granddaughters · Senior Member

Expectations !! There's your problem. Who am I to judge what sobriety is or how fast I should have it ?? .... but I tend to and that causes me grief.

They say that the first year is a gift .. then the work begins.

When I quit drinking/drugging and the fog began to clear my worst nightmare started to become evident. Humpty Dumpty had indeed fallen and had to be put together again with the help of a H.P. (My thinking was responsible for Humpty "me" falling in the first place and I needed a new manager)

Now the work begins, the very thing that I dreaded and feared the most, ... I am responsible for me and I have to change !! To change my mind !!

Cunning, baffling and powerful isn't it?

But it can be done by following the instructions layed out in HOW IT WORKS.

All the best.

Bob R

Butterfinger · Senior Member

justadrunk ' wrote:
One thing to keep in mind though - James is the adult child of a dysfunctional family - he has shared about this many times in his nearly decade long adventure here on this site. This makes him stunted emotionally and he the still a child - there for the disorder - while basically just the description of any alcoholic, can be fitting for him or any other adult child.

There is great literature out there on ACOA, adult children of alcoholics, now called ACA - adult children of dysfunctional families. James, one of my favorites, since I am also an adult child and work that program - is life skills for adult children, and I also like the big red book - although it's huge and overwhelming, the yellow workbook is a little less intimidating. There is no shame in acknowledging that we are children still emotionally - facing it and getting out of that denial that we are just children in adult bodies because of our shameful upbringing, is the first step. That and coming to terms with not being able to change our past. All things that AA also touches on, but I have found it tremendously helpful to work both programs.

Love you James -

Lol, thank you Dr. Phil.

You know I'm not the only one who has shared personal stories during my time here. Shall I use some of your life experiences to diagnose you? Would it be alright for me to casually reference things you've shared during rough times? Or might that possibly be insensitive or even cruel?

You're not a good person Tasha and you know it :)

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

It has been my experience to witness a young mother of two, with a crippling drinking problem, mature into a well adjusted, sober, responsible adult through this AA program ... I had the honor to be one person, of many, that helped her realize her true value and worth as a mother, wife, and recovering alcoholic ... with a lot of prayer, God has touched her with His Grace and she responded by living a new sober life filled with love and wisdom ...

This young lady has nothing but a desire to help others that are going through what she has already been through ... behind the scenes here, she came to my aid when I was going through a very dark period recently ... she is nothing short of being an Angel from God to me ... she saved my butt recently and I cannot thank her enough ...

We will all experience troubled times in sobriety, as I just did ... and she caught me as I was falling from the Grace that I had known so well ... I owe my life to this woman ... I was beginning to think, 'What's the use?', when she personally turned my 'thinking' back to where I needed to be ... circumstances had led me to a place where I had let up on my 'conscious contact' with my HP ... she took the time to get me out of my 'tail-spin' and lead me back to the safe arms of my God ... I cannot thank or love her enough ... she was selfless in her love of another human being and a wonderful example of what the AA 'way of life' is all about ...

So I DO take offence at your comments directed toward Tasha, Bf ... you have no idea how wrong your judgmentalism can be ... I suggest you acquire a 'new pair of glasses' and see the world with a different attitude ... cause the one you have right now WILL kill you ... it almost killed me ...

A person who has learned 'Love' cannot speak of others in the manner of which you seem to think is necessary ... Tasha not only spoke from the heart, but with a desire to help ... It's truly sad that you cannot open your heart up and see that ... please open your mind to the truth, it may hurt, but it's not necessary to hurt others because of it ...

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Yes, I think the posters are genuinely trying to help you and after all you did post that some of your attitudes were upsetting to you.

If I come to this board or anywhere asking for help then I should be prepared to have an open mind to what might be said to me. If I take offense to something said to me out of love and concern, then shame on me.....

If I get hurt and/or take offense to something someone said to me for some other reason, that is about them and none of my business. I don't have to get upset or try and retaliate by verbal attacks. It is not my place. (I just need to practice that and I will be alright).

Butterfinger · Senior Member

Pythonpappy wrote:
It has been my experience to witness a young mother of two, with a crippling drinking problem, mature into a well adjusted, sober, responsible adult through this AA program ... I had the honor to be one person, of many, that helped her realize her true value and worth as a mother, wife, and recovering alcoholic ... with a lot of prayer, God has touched her with His Grace and she responded by living a new sober life filled with love and wisdom ...

This young lady has nothing but a desire to help others that are going through what she has already been through ... behind the scenes here, she came to my aid when I was going through a very dark period recently ... she is nothing short of being an Angel from God to me ... she saved my butt recently and I cannot thank her enough ...

We will all experience troubled times in sobriety, as I just did ... and she caught me as I was falling from the Grace that I had known so well ... I owe my life to this woman ... I was beginning to think, 'What's the use?', when she personally turned my 'thinking' back to where I needed to be ... circumstances had led me to a place where I had let up on my 'conscious contact' with my HP ... she took the time to get me out of my 'tail-spin' and lead me back to the safe arms of my God ... I cannot thank or love her enough ... she was selfless in her love of another human being and a wonderful example of what the AA 'way of life' is all about ...

So I DO take offence at your comments directed toward Tasha, Bf ... you have no idea how wrong your judgmentalism can be ... I suggest you acquire a 'new pair of glasses' and see the world with a different attitude ... cause the one you have right now WILL kill you ... it almost killed me ...

A person who has learned 'Love' cannot speak of others in the manner of which you seem to think is necessary ... Tasha not only spoke from the heart, but with a desire to help ... It's truly sad that you cannot open your heart up and see that ... please open your mind to the truth, it may hurt, but it's not necessary to hurt others because of it ...

With all due respect you need to start thinking with the big head Pappy. Watching you follow her around like a love sick puppy is getting old.

Butterfinger · Senior Member

Anyone who thinks it's appropriate to make unwarrented disparaging remarks about another members mental health or to start discussing another member's personal sharing needs to give themselves a slap. Would you stand up at the podium in a meeting and start discussing another AA members mental health or family history? No you wouldn't. It would be completely inappropriate and you'd get your ass handed to you for doing anything remotely like it. But somehow it's okay here?

As for her comments coming from a place of care or concern that is laughably ridiculous. I poked fun at her for her verbose posting habits and she came back with something that was meant to hurt and offend. There wasn't a ounce of sincerity in her comments.

If she's any kind of decent person she'd apologize.

I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

There are those that seem to relish in their own distorted view of the world around them ... and are incapable of being honest with themselves ...

These types are usually those that are incapable of 'change' also ... I'd hate to be one that was staying sober based on resentment and anger .... that's not what the AA program and principles are about ...

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Please know that to apologize to you I would consider enabling James. I am sure of who I am, I have peace in my heart about it today. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone anymore :) I am a worker for my HP and doing the very best I know how to seek spiritual progress. I also believe that about you. I don't like the disease of alcoholism. I don't like what it did to me growing up, or during my own drinking. Today I know that the real me is not my disease. I know that the true you is also not your disease, and that person beneath the disease is the person I can honor as a gift to our Earth from HP. Peace & Love James. I wish you all the joy of the world and all that the 12 steps have to offer.

Pg 16 BRB

Because we were raised in chaotic or controlling homes, our internal compass is oriented toward excitement, pain and shame. This inner world can be described as an 'inside drug store". The shelves are stocked with bottles of excitement, toxic shame, self hate, self doubt, and stress. Other shelves include canisters of lust, fear, and worry. As odd as it sounds, we can seek out situations so we can experience a "hit" of one of these inner drugs. We can create chaos to feel excitement. Or we procrastinate on the job to feel stress. Before finding ACA, we picked relationships that triggered our childhood unrest because it felt normal to be upset, persecuted, or shamed. During these moments, we thought we felt alive with excitement, but in reality we were staying just ahead of our aching childhood. Our actions as adults represent our addiction to excitement and a variety of inner drugs created to survive childhood. Many of our repressed feelings have actually been changed into inner drugs that drive us to harm ourselves or others. Without help, we cannot recognize serenity or true safety. Because our homes were never consistently safe or settled, we have no true reference point for these states of being. Without ACA, we can view emotionally healthy people as boring or confusing.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

That is amazing to me!

I have not reached the point in my sobriety where some comments don't have tremendous power over me. One of my greatest hopes is that I will, through my HP's guidance, not let people, places or things control me. Someone can say "boo" to me or look at me in a manner I think is negative and I let it destroy my day, my week, hold resentment(s) for it for years. I want to be stronger, I really do. I want to watch people who are working the program and have found inner peace in their lives as evidenced in the posting above, and hopefully, I will get better in time. At the same time, I want to learn how to control my own emotions and know how to disagree with someone and respond in a loving and caring way and one which will not hurt their feelings.
Thank you both!

((((jad and BF)))))) and