I haven't had control over my own thinking for years and years. The alcohol was my Higher Power and I did everything it told me to do while I was under its influence. Also, I have been a people pleaser most of my life, and because of this, I have allowed myself to be in controlling relationships where I was told what to do by others and felt like I had to do things I was uncomfortable doing because such and such wouldn't like me, would leave me, think bad of me, ad nauseum. This hasn't just been romantic relationships, but friendships, co-workers, family members and even people I barely knew. I wasn't true to myself and my own needs many times, because I was too afraid of what others thought of me. Now that I have some sober time and my head is clearer it is nice to be able to think for myself, make my own decisions and be my own person. I have learned to love who I am and appreciate my "humanness" and not beat myself up all the time because I am not as this or as that as others are, or as others think I should be. I'm just "me" and "me" is doing a great job staying sober one day at a time.
Step Four is very important to me and as I have mentioned before I feel like I have been mentally working that step within a couple of months after I started AA. I have been told by well intentioned members not to work the steps out of order. But for me, it has helped me to catch myself when ingrained negative thinking patterns would creep into my mind (and still do at times), so that I would not get myself in more trouble, get upset, get depressed and want to drink before I even got started on Step 4. I have read not only AA literature but self-help books to help me with positive thinking, such as The Purpose Driven Life, the Power of Positive Thinking and several others. I have found that they have been very beneficial in helping me feel better about myself and have helped me stay sober. I love my Higher Power and daily prayers to Him, the Big Book, my AA meetings and the fellowship. This board has been a big help as well and has become a part of my life. I love the posters on here, everyone of them, and feel I can learn something from each and every person. All in all I feel pretty good about myself, who I am today, and am asking for God's guidance in my life everyday to help me become the person I am meant to be. It is exciting to be sober and I look forward to the future instead of being fearful of it.
Sorry I couldn't respond earlier, as I read this this a.m., my wife was calling me to get going, so we could go register one of our cars at the county clerk's office ... it was my third trip there cause I couldn't register a car that was in her name (yes, I did have our birth certificates AND proof of residence, AND the old Georgia title, AND our marriage certificate from 1973, AND my photo I.d. ... and that still wasn't good enough, so the 3rd trip ...) ... and she didn't know how to get there ... so the saga of moving continues, LOL ... (Royal Pain In The Butt)
Okay, I think you have made progress by leaps and bounds ... and I think your spiritual condition is improving day by day ... this is fantastic ... keep up the great job ... I only have one caution here for you ... my sponsor's words caught me 'off guard' one time regarding 'self-help' books ... and you said "I have read not only AA literature but self-help books to help me with positive thinking, such as The Purpose Driven Life, the Power of Positive Thinking and several others. I have found that they have been very beneficial in helping me feel better about myself and have helped me stay sober." ... SO ... I shall relate a story to you and you determine if it applies to you or not ... ... ...
I was to meet my sponsor at a coffee shop/book store this one time ... I got there before he did and was perusing the 'self-help' book section ... he walked in and found me standing there holding a book ... he asked what I was doing? ... I said 'just seeing what's new with the self-help books' ... he said 'you got many of those at home?' ... I said, yeah, I got a bunch of 'em .... He said 'My God man, go home and get rid of those things' ... I said 'Why?' ... he said you're trying to build up the very person you need to get rid of' ... ... ... he went on to tell me that the AA BB and 12 & 12 and Good Book were the only books I needed to get all the self-help advice I'd ever need ... ... ...
For me??? ... he was absolutely 'spot-on' ... ... ... I haven't found it necessary to read any 'self-help' books since ... ... ... those 3 books and the meetings and this web site are all I need today ... others may find this issue differently, that's okay with me ... all I can share is what worked for me ... Now let me clarify one thing, ... there are some great books out there that tell stories I need to here ... they put me in a good place ... but I wouldn't call them self-help books ... i would come nearer calling them 'spiritual fulfillment' books ... which, of course, you may be referring to ...
Just the extra 2 cents I had in my pocket ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
betterthanyesterday52 wrote:Step Four is very important to me and as I have mentioned before I feel like I have been mentally working that step within a couple of months after I started AA. I have been told by well intentioned members not to work the steps out of order. But for me, it has helped me to catch myself when ingrained negative thinking patterns would creep into my mind (and still do at times), so that I would not get myself in more trouble, get upset, get depressed and want to drink before I even got started on Step 4.
hi BTY,
I'm not sure that is good advice except in respect of step 9, which is where we go out to our fellows to repair the damage and there is no guarantee they will be sympathetic to our cause. We need to be well prepared for that through steps 4 to 7.
The book says "vigorously we commenced this way of living AS we cleaned up the past". And that was my experience. My actions in the program were often well ahead of my understanding. It went something like this.
I came in full of willingness. When something shared or read penetrated the fog, I acted on it. Steps one and two were no brainers. I heard prayer was important so I began to pray - was this step 3? remember the wording is optional. Regular prayer also became step 11. Then in short order I found myself at my sponsor's door asking for help with step 4 (the last thing I wanted to do when I came in - how did that change come about?. Step 4 is the first action from step3. the day after my sponsor and I together worked out my 4th step, I took the 5th-confession and immediately experienced the promises laid out on page 75. Three days later steps 6 and 7 were done.
All this while I was learning the disciplines of steps 10 and 11. 10 was one step that made sense to me, don't make a new mess, clean up as you go. 11 was just as written. And I was active in step 12 in small ways right from the start. My sponsor found people for me to take to meetings and I well recall the feeling that gave me. I felt useful for the first time in my life!
The program was working as advertised and all this work on the other steps actually prepared me for step 9. I went out to my fellows absolutely convicted that I was doing the right thing. I was there to clean my side of the street. Their defects (if any) were not discussed and were not part of the process. And i had absolutely no expectations on how they might react, though all, as it turned out, reacted in a forgiving spirit. And all those promises came to pass along with the 10th step promises.
The Book talks about a way of living as the solution to our problems, and it says we start living it straight away. So I would think to insist on one step following another when in fact the effect of a step has already taken hold, sometime without us being aware at the time, would not always be helpful.
For reasons best known to themselves, people sometimes suggest taking our time. This shows a lack of understanding what powerless really means. It means we don't have time to take, we are without defence against the first drink, and until we find a defence, we could drink, even against our will, at anytime. So we better get into action.
Great posts!
MikeH....glad to hear I am not going to fail in this program because I am not doing the steps in numerical order. Thanks for sharing!
Pappy.....whew! What kind of self-help section were you in? I read books about building confidence in myself, focusing on positive things rather than negative, stress reduction (diet, exercise, deep breathing, etc.). I do also read inspirational books by Norman Vincent Peale as well as books by Elbert Hubbard. I would have a real problem with anyone telling me what I could and could not read....that goes too much into the "control" thing I mentioned above and borders on "cult-ish" behavior, which alot of people from what I have read, say about AA. (Do only what we tell you, read only this, etc.) Perhaps I am over-thinking this or possibly under-thinking due to my lack of AA experience and I make amends if I have offended anyone on here by saying this. (Although, if I listened to some AA'ers who told me I have to work the steps in order, I really wouldn't have to worry about the making amends until Step 8 and Step 9.)
Hi BTY...I sure do like what I'm hearing from you on this post! Sounds like good things are happening for you because of all the good things you're doing -- like going to lots of meetings, reading the Big Book, working the Steps (hopefully Step 4 soon), and working with a sponsor. Good actions always bring good results. This makes me feel happy for you. I hope you'll keep doing what's working and keep it simple.
Speaking of Keeping It Simple, since Pappy has already addressed the thing about "self-help" books, I'll take this opportunity to chime in. Nearly every alcoholic I've ever known has had a vast collection of those "self-help books" that they bought years before they ever came to A.A. If you ask them, they'll tell you that none of those books ever helped them to stop drinking and change their lives. In other words...those books didn't work. If they did work, they wouldn't have needed to come to A.A. Right? Further, the most common premise of most books of this genre is that YOU have the power to change yourself and change your own life -- once the author shows you how. And, for about $24.99, he'll show you how! Generally speaking, all of 10 different books that you would read, would usually all contradict each other, and for the most part, they can only cause more confusion. Like Pappy said, the best thing is to keep it simple and stick with the Big Book and the 12&12, especially for now.
My book shelf contains all the basic A.A. literature. But, because the Big Book and the 12&12 both direct us to "see where religious people are right", and seek out books on prayer and meditation, etc. at Step 11, I have acquired a small collection of titles on these topics over the years. I found them helpful when I was first on Step 11. Again...I'd stick with the basics and keep it simple.
Anyway, I'm sure glad you're doing well. That's what we all want for each other. Blessings, Mike D.
Thank you so much Mike for putting in words what I was starting to put together before I read your post ... Mike absolutely hit the nail on the head with his interpretation of my post BTY ... His post is 'spot on' ... ... ... most all the books I had, and there were a lot, tried to convince me that I was 'all powerful' to change myself into the person I wanted to be ... and most did not reference the spiritual world, or growth, needed to accomplish such goals ... ergo, for me they were a waste of time just as my sponsor was trying to tell me ...
However, when I did follow the suggestions in the AA BB, and work the steps with the 12 & 12 as my guide, with my sponsor, I then found myself receiving the promises listed in the BB ... these two books became the only guide I ever needed to accomplish what I had failed to do in the past ... they worked ... because they took me mentally to a place where I was reborn to my entire 'thought process' ... my thinker was broken ... and for me, no other books were able to help me at this point, save one, 'The Shack' ... that one book broke down my religious defenses and preconceptions to the point I became receptive to the AA principles of living life ... and that's a fact !!!
I'm not say'n this is the way it should work for everyone, it's simply they way it worked for me ... just sharing my experience ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Thank you for your encouragment, Mike D. I went to the link under your postings a while back and one day want to order some books you wrote. I am sure that they are very good, but I wondered to myself if it was some of my ego and wanting to own/read books by a writer who I "met" and "talk" to on this board. Kind of neat to me for some reason. Hey, if it is some ego on my part, then I haven't worked all the steps yet, so you guys...please go easy on this gal. I have actually heard someone in the meetings several months ago bring up that he used to read alot of self-help books and got rid of them when he got into AA. Interesting stuff....I mentioned that I also like exercise, nutrition self-help books and have considered getting a meditation book because I want to get into that. Are you saying I shouldn't read those either? I also read alot of self-help information which is on different online sites. What about that? Just want to get it clear in my mind and thank you.
Any 'self-help' material that promotes 'self-will' is harmful in my way of thinking ... on the contrary, I think if the material promotes 'faith' in a HP, and a desire to do your HP's will, then it is good for the soul ... my whole outlook on this subject was that if I build up myself and take the credit for such, then I have missed the boat on 'spiritual enlightenment' ... ... ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hi Pappy and thank you for your response. I apologize but I am still confused...
I felt like I knew what "self-will" means, however, I looked it up anyway just in case and found...
"self-will: stubborn adherence to one's own will, desires, etc, esp at the expense of others" (thefreedictionary.com)
so that would include the books I mentioned? I have had some health problems in the past besides the drinking, such as blood glucose/Type 2 Diabetes, and really would like to be healthier. Know I have to give up cigs/cut down caffaine, as well, but I thought if I could learn more about the importance of exercise than I would have more incentive as well as learning about diet/nutrition. is this "self-will run riot?" And who am i hurting since it said "at the expense of others" in the meaning? This is all so new to me and I am just trying to figure it all out...so is it not a good thing for me to read things that help me be more self-confident either? Just questioning, because like I said, I don't understand so much. I just have always had a problem with self confidence and I really feel that I could not have stayed sober long enough to get this far had I not read some of the things I did which made me feel better about myself. My thinking was (still is sometimes) so very negative and since I didn't have what you guys are telling me you have, I just don't know what i would have done. Maybe I am just a big failure and destined to be one because it would be very hard for me to give up reading other things besides AA literature and I have heard you and others say you read novels, which probably contain all kinds of "self-will run riot" stories. And I saw where someone posted on this board a beautiful house he built....is it not alright to accomplish a goal and feel good about ourselves because of that? I understand giving our Higher Power thanks for achieving such things, but what is wrong with feeling good about ourselves? I am so
Try and take the word "will"....And replace it with "thoughts" BTY....These steps are about having an entire psychic change...As the good Doctor called it in The Doctor's Opinion...Also known as a "Spiritual Awakening"....The result of the steps. What it comes down to is a complete change in our thinking. Aligning our "thoughts" to the "will" of our Higher Power. What would He have us do?....
From the third step prayer...
Relieve me of the bondage of self, that I may better do Thy will.
As we go through the day we pause, when agitated or doubtful, and ask(pray) for the right thought or action. We constantly remind ourselves we are no longer running the show, humbly saying to ourselves many times each day "Thy will be done." We are then in much less danger of excitement, fear, anger, worry, self-pity, or foolish decisions. We become much more efficient. We do not tire so easily, for we are not burning up energy foolishly as we did when we were trying to arrange life to suit ourselves.
It works - it really does.
We alcoholics are undisciplined. So we let God discipline us in the simple way we have just outlined.
BB pg 87 - 88
That complete change in thinking....As well as getting our relationship with our HP right... happen in the action of steps 4 through 9. Don't overthink it BTY....Have faith in it...And do it. It never fails if we take the action.
-- Edited by Stepchild on Thursday 23rd of January 2014 11:53:17 AM
I know what you're asking, but I'm not sure I can answer in a way that you will understand ... here's what the book says on page 87 ... :
Being still inexperienced and having just made conscious contact with God, it is not probable that we are going to be inspired at all times. We might pay for this presumption in all sorts of absurd actions and ideas. Nevertheless, we find that our thinking will, as time passes, be more and more on the plane of inspiration. We come to rely upon it. We usually conclude the period of meditation with a prayer that we be shown all through the day what our next step is to be, that we be given whatever we need to take care of such problems. We ask especially for freedom from self-will, and are careful to make no request for ourselves only. We may ask for ourselves, however, if others will be helped. We are careful never to pray for our own selfish ends. Many of us have wasted a lot of time doing that and it doesnt work. You can easily see why.
There are plenty of good books out there ... some are inspiring and some are pure fantasy ... neither of which are harmful as long as your core spiritual being is where it needs to be ... and that, for me, could only be achieved through working the steps in the BB ... let me try to put it this way, my priority was to reach the promises in the BB ... once my spiritual foundation had been laid, then, I could enjoy other thought provoking books without be led off the sober tracks I placed my train on ... I'm merely suggesting 'caution' when reading other 'suggestive books' outside the AA arena ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
This is kinda complicated isn't it. I think the general view is that in step two we chose the spirtual path of AA as our vehicle of recovery from alcoholism. That is a very distinct and different path from, say , a religious or medical one, so in respect of our recovery perhaps it is wisest to keep it as simple as possible and avoid muddying the waters with concepts that will only serve to confuse us.
Bearing in mind too the general order of things, we straighten out spiritually first and find, as we do that, we straighten out physically and mentally.
The book also emphasises the importance of good nutrition and taking care of our physical health as best we can. A book or two on these subjects might be useful as might books on other interests. Books like the Shack, that help our spiritual growth might also be useful as an addition to what we are learning to practice from the big book. But self help books teaching mind power, positive thinking etc might have their place in the future, but are not useful to us as an aid to recovery..If they worked for us we wouldn't need the rest.
So I guess we are suggesting that you try not to get distracted.
As to the will .. page 85 "Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will."
