One of the biggest issues I have heard other alcoholics have about this program is the "believing in a Power greater than ourselves" ....aka "Higher Power". (Step Two) * Meetings have turned into unruly debates with raised voices, insults and people even leaving meetings when this subject is brought up sometimes. Even on this board, feathers have become a bit ruffled when someone shared their beliefs.
One of the things I like best about AA is that we each can choose who we want as our HP. It is my understanding, that being successful in this program doesn't require any particular belief system. You don't have to attend church, worship "God", "Buddha", etc. I went to a meeting and the person who chaired the meeting said that it didn't matter who stayed sober that they were all going to burn in Hell anyway unless they believed in God. What a horrible thing to say to alcoholics and if that had been my first meeting, although my Higher Power is God for me, I doubt I would have gone back. If offended me that much and scare tactics of that nature are totally unnecessary in AA rooms or elsewhere where alcoholics are trying to help one another. There were some newcomers in that meeting and I just hope they tried more meetings so they could find out that this is not the way all AA'ers think.
*Step Two:" Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
-- Edited by betterthanyesterday52 on Monday 20th of January 2014 09:00:06 AM
I just wanted to add that I also believe in God, but it is also my belief that God does not wish for me to make 'threats' where someone must believe or are damned ... I think thats His call, not mine ... besides, I firmly believe that He wants followers that 'want' to be with Him, not those that feel 'forced' to believe in Him ... you cannot force love, it must come from the heart ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Sounds like there are a few groups in your area that need a refresher course in the twelve traditions as well as the "I Am Responsible" statement, BTY52. Yikes. Sorry to hear about that, and you're right about everything in your comment. Regarding the whole issue of 'preaching' about one particular understanding of a higher power, those folks in your meeting would do well to be reminded that AA exists all over the world, and it works just fine in lots of places where the kind of Judeo-Christian/heaven&hell concept of God that the person in your meeting is referring to doesn't even exist.
Although I'm curious about the 'unruly debates and raised voices'. In nearly all of the meetings I have been to, people only speak one at a time, and only after being called upon to speak. Interrupting the person speaking, especially to argue with them, is NOT allowed, specifically to prevent the meeting from becoming unruly and chaotic. This rule is one of the most important tools for providing a safe environment for people to open up and say what they need to say. Of course each meeting is free to have their own format, but if your meeting isn't doing this, and doesn't think they ought to, you may want to find some that do.
-- Edited by davep12and12 on Monday 20th of January 2014 01:22:50 PM
I don't attend that meeting as much as I used to. Yikes is right. The unruliness has happened in more than one meeting when one person expressed their opinion/beliefs and someone or a couple of someones got upset and they "shared" in raised voices and the peace of the room was no more and I just wanted to leave. Maybe "unruly" is too strong a word to use.
I believe that my HP leaves everybody elses' HP alone and He wants me to do the same.
The olde fire and brimstone preaching is not as popular as it once was in the mainstream religions, thank goodness. The good and the spiritual seem to be much more in vogue, which fits quite well with AA.
I remember leaving one of my first meetings never to return, because they said the Lord's prayer - silly me. Probably missed out. But I was desperate to stay sober so I didn't leave the fellowship, just found other meetings more to my liking.
When Ebby was talking to Bill, Bill was not at all keen on the idea of a Christian God. Ebby knew that belief or willingness to believe in some kind of God was essential in a spiritual program of recovery and almost in desperation said "well, why don't you choose your own conception of God". That statement opened the door for Bill and all who followed.
That wording in the second step needs to be studied a bit. It says came to believe ... and uses the word could, not would. There is nothing definite about the belief, it only asks us to acknowledge the possibility that a power greater than ourselves might work for us like it has worked for others. The Book tells us here that willingness is the key. In order to get going in the program we only need to be willing to believe.
In many ways it is like saying "I am willing to believe that this program could work for me, (step 2) and I have decided (step 3) to do everything it suggests (step 4 onwards) to ensure that it does. My experience is the same as those who went before. I came to know the God of my understanding as the result of the steps. I had not a clue at the start.
At the end of the day I don't care what you pray to, but you must pray to something.
I remember leaving one of my first meetings never to return, because they said the Lord's prayer - silly me. Probably missed out. But I was desperate to stay sober so I didn't leave the fellowship, just found other meetings more to my liking.
Hahahaha! Me too Mike!!
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
I CAME to believe... and what I started with has been redefined, evolved over 24 years. I believe in letting each alcoholic start with where they are, and let their HP work out the rest. What works for me might not be what works for someone else in regards to spiritual development. I love to talk about spiritual growth, idea's, even beliefs (outside the meetings).. but when someone tries to bulldoze their beliefs on me... I just reply...
AhSalem Alakem... excuse me while I go build a bomb". And I walk away.... LOL
Hope each of you find the spiritual light that brings you comfort, peace, protection and love.
