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MIP Old Timer

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What was helpful if anything?  Sometimes I think it's just a safer place to get time from the last drink and to step out of the wreckage. 



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MIP Old Timer

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The rehab I attended was somewhat helpful, at least from a skeptics standpoint. They gave me enough 'initial' support to prove most theories wrong. So from that standpoint, I would have to say yes, they do serve some useful function -but then again so does A.A. I will always be grateful for both.  

I guess there comes a time when we need to make choices, like 'what to do' and 'where to turn'. One of the greatest tests came the day after my last session. It was the first time I was forced to make a choice, and a sober one at that. I could either run, like I did in the past, or face life on sober terms. The choice was all mine.

Rehab gave me that first real glimpse of recovery and A.A. has been my go to outlet ever since, in that order. So to say Rehab is just a 'time out' of sorts -even though it was, would undermine everything that recovery outlets stand for, A.A. included. They provide us with enough tools to get our lives back together, and what we make of it -from there- is up to us, period. I hope you agree.

P.S. Thanks, Mark, for all the work you do. You make recovery that much easier.       



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Mr.David


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Here's my take on rehab from my experience:  My first try at rehab was a joke..because I was a joke and made the whole thing a joke.  The counselors there tried hard with me but I wasn't receptive and didn't want to hear anything about being powerless over anything.  I was a real "piece-of-work".  They kicked me out and I was glad to go...and quickly started drinking 3 times more than I did before rehab.  It was a living hell.  Six months later I was begging to get back into a hospital.  28 days.  My second rehab was totally different because I was different, with a different attitude.  I got desperate.  My second rehab gave me the basics I needed and helped me get started.  The day I was released, I went to an A.A. meeting.  That was the beginning.  Rehab was a good experience for me on the 2nd attempt.  Mike D.



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My recovery started in a 90 day rehab. If they hadn't been there and taken me in I am sure I would have shot myself in 1989. I needed the intensive care in the beginning.

They got my feet on the ground and prepared me for AA. They showed me which way was "UP" and AA has led me to sobriety step by step.

After about 10yrs in AA I began to see that the program is not a penalty you pay for being alcoholic but it is the opportunity to grow and improve.

All the best.

Bob R

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My experience with Rehab's is extensive, from both ends of the spectrum.  I submit that a rehab is only as good as the person is willing and ready.  If they aren't, then what rehab they went to, what treatment modality was presented is irrelevant.  It's not whether the rehab worked for them or not.  It's more a matter of how desperate the alcoholic or addict was to bring about change into their lives.

For most I say that going to rehab for the first time is a part of the "getting ready" process.  It provides a certain amount of education about what someone is up against and what solutions are available that could be useful if used on a daily basis as a part of ongoing treatment once discharged from the rehab.  I also believe that it gives the alcoholic or addict the opportunity to be outside the circle of environmental and relational elements that are prone to work against their recovery efforts early on.  Most importantly, this time slot, provides the alcoholic or addict the opportunity to change their mind about why they are there.  It may start out as a issue related to the courts, homelessness, health, family or job, but many discover in this increment of time, that they not only need the help that is available, but that they want it.  They get excited about it, enthusiastic about the adventure and journey they are undertaking.  Then they are there for the right reason.  

On a personal note; I think most 12 Step based rehabs tend to dilute the 12 step message of recovery and sit the stage for client recidivism.  They promote the philosophy of "don't drink and go to meetings", or "meeting makers make it" and for a real alcoholic or addict, doing this does not treat the disease of alcoholism or addiction.  Instead it results in the person's internal condition becoming so unbearable that they end up drinking in a short period of time to get relief from their internal whirlwind and turmoil created by the absence of alcohol or drugs as a means by which they cope with life conditions.  It is a multi billion dollar a year industry, and 60% or more of its consumer base is repeat customers.  Why?  Because if even 70% of those who went to rehab, got rehab'd the industry would lose literally billions of dollars.  Rehab treatments cost any where from 20,000.00 to 45,000.00 dollars (28 day stays) and yet at the end of the day, a client is patted on the ass, told to go to AA... which only cost one dollar a day, if they so choose to make that contribution to the group they attend.  Insurance providers will not fund a alcohol or drug rehab stay on its own merits, because the recidivism is so high for this population of people (rehabers).  Now to get adequate coverage from insurance providers the client is required to have what is referred to a dual diagnosis, in short a mental health deficiency as well as the disease of alcoholism or addiction.  Any idea how many of us are erroneously diagnosed as depressed and/or bi-polar disordered in order to gain that funding from the insurance industry?  The belief is that someone with acute mental health related issues is inclined to have a higher success rate, then a alcoholic or addict without who is in rehab.  Many insurance providers notify the rehab of it's intent to end its funding within 2 weeks, if not enough information is available supporting a dual diagnosis.  Of course, we look and sometimes even act out in ways that would suggest there might be a mental health issue.  Most of us are not in rehab treatment because we partied to much for a year or two.  We burned ourselves to the ground mentally and emotionally over a period of years, most for double digits with alcohol and drugs.  Given the proper treatment, sustaining it over a substantial period of time upon leaving rehab, the seeming mental health issues will work themselves out, true mental disorders don't work themselves out.  

So, all said, rehab has its place and it meets a need, but joining AA, working the 12 steps, with a sponsor, and fellowshipping with others who are trying to do the same thing, (stay sober and clean while recovering from the hideous dis-ease brought about by alcoholism and addiction) over a substantial period of time is where the meat of recovery stands.  It also cost a whole lot less, and we already know... "I Suck Mentally" (I.S.M) due to our atrocious consumption of alcohol and/or drugs, thus we in AA are able to be treated for AlcoholISM... not simply alcohol overindulgence.

That's my two cents worth...

John

 

 

 

 



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I was truly blessed with my local rehab as when I asked them how much it cost for the 90 day in-patient program I was told that there was no cost required but if I could afford to pay something that it would be appreciated. They told me that some contribute as much as $25.00 @ week ....... whatever I could afford..

It was a Priest that started and ran that rehab in the early 60's and nobody was turned away if they wanted treatment. It was NOT a business, it was a God-given passion for that man.

I gave them the $325.00 for my 13 weeks and donated $325.00@year for the next 20 yrs. They saved my life !

Some of us are sicker than others and require some "intensive care" in the beginning. I saw the Priest throw out many folks over the years who wouldn't surrender (there were 10 others waiting for that bed) and some of them died. It is well described in the first paragraph of HOW IT WORKS.

The Priest took in inmates from Federal Prisons and Government Mental Institutions. I meet a lot of them at meetings today in our area.

That recovery home saved thousands of lives....

You do have to want it, though ... or at least keep showing up to the meetings and participating until you want it. I had to submit myself to be changed.

All the best.

Bob R

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MIP Old Timer

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Hey Pinky - does it really matter what WE think? What do YOU think?

You know your importance and worth to a HP> having a job where needing outside validation to 'meet quota' or whatever the clinical world calls it would be tough. I would imagine that if you get a bonus or some sort of slap on the back however it looks - to 'cure' more people, or whatever you call it... that would be an even bigger challenge to remain true to the humble reflection of a HP that you actually are as your true self.


Comparing yourself to others is allowing EGO to run and play. It's only natural to do it to some degree to fit in socially with our human family. In the light of the spirit - it will be easy for you to see that what you do in each moment to be most useful to your HP is all that really nourishes YOUR soul. When you are achieving this state of living, you will be a healthy blessing to anyone you encounter - no matter if they 'make it' - die - or anything in between. Ultimately - your HP loves you so dearly and values you no matter where you are on the journey - just like people He sends to you for His reasons. Well - that's how I see it anyway xxxoxoxoxxoxox

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pinkchip wrote:

What was helpful if anything?  Sometimes I think it's just a safer place to get time from the last drink and to step out of the wreckage. 


 I totally agree with your 'safer place to get time from the last drink' comment here Pinkdude ... ... ... 

But I also think that God sometimes puts us in touch with an event or person that can 'unlock' that door to recovery in every person's life too ... it CAN happen in 'rehab' ... as it did to me my 4th time around ... here's what I experienced:

I went to rehab, heart rate would not drop below 140 bpm, I couldn't walk on my own, I was 'Zombie like' and starting to turn yellow due to failed liver function ... (no hepatitis) ... during my stay this time, I got assigned a Dr. top in his field and a recovering alcoholic himself ... that, in addition to meeting an ex-marine weekend counselor, I was introduced to 2 people that would work in tandem to break through my thick skull and set me up on the best route to recovery ... my counselor saw I liked reading ... loaned me his book called 'The Shack' ... he said it threw a whole different perspective on the HP issue that was crucial to recovery ... (BOY!, did it ever ...)

Long story short, I read that book and walked away a different person ... a person now ready to receive God's gifts and to now seek His will for me ... 1st thing was to get rooted in AA and work the steps and then go on to apply the principles in my life daily ... WOW! ... I was introduced to a new life,  life I never knew could exist ... a total and complete miracle in and of itself ... a hopeless drunk turned into a useful human being ... go fig'r ... ... ... 

Years later, that old ex-marine counselor became my sponsor ... I talked to him yesterday .... (my dilemma now is that since I moved, I don't want to change sponsors ... so far, the long-distance thingy is working, but I know I should probably get someone local I can see f to f ... ) ... 

 

Great topic, thanks Pinky



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MIP Old Timer

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Oh - and Pink - as you know I never went to rehab... I came here first - then AA

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MIP Old Timer

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I'm still figuring it out Tasha. Both matter to me (what I think and others here do). I do know some of these posts have been really valuable - particularly 2grandfathers but the others also and yours which is a reminder to work for my HP and that is always the best way to stay spiritually fit and centered.

Here's my motivation for posting this:

I've seen so much bullcrap in 6 months working in the treatment industry that it does make me question it a bit. I don't get much feedback from folks who now have long term sobriety looking back at what it did for them. I only see those still stuck in the problem. Clients generally seem to prefer counselors in recovery - that helps. When they ask me "what did rehab do for you?", I have nothing to tell them because I didn't go to rehab. When I lack the ESH to help others in a specific way or am curious about what that ESH might look like, I ask. Hence, I'm asking.

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MIP Old Timer

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Get you a box of 'The Shack' books Pinky ... who knows, it may save a life (and soul) ... My sponsor and I have given a bunch of them away! (you just never know the impact it may have!!!)



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MIP Old Timer

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pretty well the same as everybody else . A 1 week detox , aa every night ,

only general chatter to other patients , group therapy Was Steps based

HAD to constantly read the Big book , NO tv , no newspapers , had to ask permission

to use the pay-phone - no cell phone in those days - no techno fidily bits either .

Into the 90s - that All changed , "th do-gooders" had got their way , no-one had to do

anything they did not want , now it is a medically supervised detoxification , everything

else is Encouraged , but can't be enforced . That being the case , I would Not have made it .

There was NO power Greater than Me . I NEEDED to Have the Law Laid down to me . Geez , I

had survived  Mack truck wrecks , an"18" bullet" through my head , I was 5'11 1/2" & invincible.



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@ 37 I was too young & good looking to be an alkie.

still too young , still got th good looks. still n alkie.



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Pappy, Violet is reading The Shake book now... LOL God knows, I'm willing to pull out all the stops, huh? LMAO
John

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I did outpatient rehab, inpatient wasn't an option due to my being a full time caregiver for my special needs son. After about 2 weeks of group, I asked to be changed to a different one. I felt the people in my group were not serious about being there. Most of them were court ordered and did not want to be there. Some often made remarks at break or when the counselor stepped out about how they couldn't wait to get through this process , and how next time they'd be smarter and not get caught. The staff met to discuss my request & my concerns. Of course I was expecting them to say ok, we'll move you. Nope. Instead they said I needed to stay where I was and focus on what was being taught. I almost quit, I was not court ordered. But I stayed. And I listened and I did learn. I learned about what I had been physically doing to my body & my brain. Part of the program was 2 meetings a week,proven by a signed slip.Eventually, those meetings, the ones I said I wasn't going to do, then said ok, I'll do them online(how I found IMP, searching for online mtgs), became my saving grace. First just through fellowship, eventually, with a relapse and a sense of desperation like never before, I took the suggestions , asked for help, went through the steps with a sponsor. Today, my HP, who I don't really understand, and faith in him/her/it are doing for me what I could not do for myself. Don't be discouraged, Mark. Be honest when your clients ask you about your experience, and share what did work and continues to work for you. You may only reach one person out of 15, and that's ok. They will become a miracle. Just like you. Just like me.

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My brother threw me into a rehab...A good one. Hazeldon. I was fricken lost and he told me he couldn't take watching me die. I detoxed for five days and began getting into the daily routine on day six. My councelor handed out books to the eight of us....There were forty in total. We broke into groups. Most of them got books about how not to relapse...And different alcohol related books. She handed me one book....The Big Book and told me....This is your recovery plan. I tore into it. I guess it was my flimsy reed.

All I did was attend our group sessions and study the book. Even days we were allowed to leave to go to a nearby gym and pool....I stayed in and read the book. I could see what it was...And what I had to do. I had a lady patient there invite me to go to a 6:00 am meeting on my 11th day there....I knew I was in the right place...I saw it working in person.....Proof in the pudding.

So I continued to go with her every morning for six more days...Continued to study the book and I talked to AA speakers that came in after they spoke...And picked their brains on what I needed to do to get a sponsor.....I was clueless. They gave me some good advice and I took it. I left on the 18th day of a 28 day stay.....And my councelor wasn't happy....She said I'd never make it. I went home at 1:00...Was at a 5:30 meeting and continued the next day with three meetings a day. I heard a guy talking about the steps on my 3rd day out....And I liked it. I walked up to him after the meeting and asked him if he'd take me through the steps...I told him I was done with steps 1-3 and I was ready to start writing inventory. He took me to breakfast and told me his story....And that put me at ease....I didn't even eat. He then told me to go home...Say the prayer in the book on my knees and to start writing and to call him everyday and read pages 86 - 88 everyday....So I did. I was working my ninth step when I got my 90 day chip and living in steps 10-12. I'd been reading 10 and 11 everyday.

They invited me back for a six month reunion at the rehab. I got an E mail so I attended. Out of 40 of us...There were four of us there. I'm hoping more than that made it...I don't know....Tell you the truth I don't see very many make it in AA. Why did I make it so far?.....I guess I gave myself completely to this simple program....I don't think there is any other way to do it. So PC....You may not have rehab experience...My councelor that gave me the book...Didn't have AA experience...Her husband was a recovered alcoholic. But you have AA experience....You can always share that with them. I've gone back to see her on my first and second year anniversaries...And I plan on going to see her in July for my third....I'll always be grateful to her.



-- Edited by Stepchild on Saturday 18th of January 2014 08:36:02 PM

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John wrote:

Pappy, Violet is reading The Shake book now... LOL God knows, I'm willing to pull out all the stops, huh? LMAO
John


 This is great John, ... 'The Shack' had a very profound effect on me, I wish the same for her ... I too, was in a hopeless state at one time and I know for sure Violet can relate ... this book gave me so much to look forward to, it's hard to describe ... just be sure she gets through the 2nd half of it ... that's the meat of the whole story here, as I'm sure you know ...  I am so glad the Lord answered my prayers for Violet so long ago when you and I first came to know each other ... you and she have been down a very long hard road in this life ... and I pray she will be capable and willing to return the love you so free gave to her ... (perhaps I should keep most of the details to myself, but I will always feel close to you John for sharing a few things privately)(it's what brothers are for) ... Violet has an 'angel' beside her for sure ... 

You are a great inspiration to me and I'm sure, to others ... God Bless you John, love ya brother!



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   The most helpful thing for me was having a safe environment where drugs and alcohol were not being used so that I could get my legs back under me.  I only stayed 21 days but I have been sober ever since.



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Some kind of respite with medical support is useful in the first few days, detoxing, finding your feet, and maybe a little relief from the pressures of the alcoholic life. But, like the third step, it has little lasting effect unless followed by a substantial change in the way we live, such as that found through the AA program.

Detox isn't rehab of course. Rehabs vary in quality. Mine had virtually no program but did introduce me to AA which, a year or two later, saved my life. Many folks going the rehab route make the same mistake that Rowland H did in the big book. They pay experts a lot of money to "fix" them, and then are amazed to fall flat on their butt a few days after completing treatment. The thing is money can't buy recovery from alcoholism, but the pride of the alcoholic allows him to be fleeced repeatedly by an industry that thrives on relapse.

John made some excellent points above. As a business man I understand the best kind of customer is the repeat customer. Cigarette companies really knew how to exploit this, but now seem to have been found out. Alcohol, pharmaceutical, and rehabs all do well out of repeat business. That dual diagnosis deal doesn't help, with many of our lot ending up on "non addictive" long term medication through mis diagnosis. Just remember, alcohol is non-addictive to most people.

Relapse prevention has to be about the biggest con ever. For alcoholics of my type it's an oxymoron, I can't keep myself sober! As long as I have an alcoholic mind everything and nothing is a trigger. That's not to say that some of this stuff won't help you in early sobriety, and it sure is worthwhile having the opportunity to deal with other issues with the help of professionals. But the truth is rehab has its limits, one of which is that it will only bring temporary relief.

A dilemna faced by AAs working in the field is that they must follow their employers wishes which may require them to give advice which they know, from experience, will not work or may be harmful. A friend of mine and my late sponsor, worked in the field and both said they cannot always use their AA experience. In fact my friend was told that if he submitted AA experience in his papers, he would fail his degree. That was because the state sees harm reduction as a better cost benefit than trying to achieve total abstinence. They are not concerned with quality of life of the individual, just reducing the cost to society.

Quite a few end up like palliative care patients, living in a drug induced fug, feeling nothing painful, but no joy or hope either. Just waiting to die. A far cry from the fourth dimension we experience. Very sad, but the truth is that business and politics have always explioted the weak and the sick for their own advantage.

At least our experts now recognise the truth in Silkworth's work. That the only possible cure for us is a conversion experience, and here they are honest enough to say they have not yet found a medical way of doing this.

The best advice they can give for long term recovery is the same as Jung gave Rowland all those years ago. Try and get your life on some sort of spiritual plane and have one of these spiritual experiences. AA is a great vehicle for this, which essentially grew from Jung's suggestion.
But the right rehab could get you off to a good start.

God bless,
MikeH

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I went to rehab a long long time ago and the exercise we did that touched me the most was a guided meditation where we imagined ourselves traveling back in time watching our lives pass before us in reverse. Traveling back all the way to seeing ourselves as a tiny perfect new baby with all the hopes, dreams and potential in the world. We were asked to have a conversation with our baby-self in our minds and share with him what we had learned. It may sound silly but it was very moving and there was not a dry eye in the room when the meditation was finished. In fact I still feel very emotional thinking about it now. I started out perfect, innocent and good, completely untouched by the pain, sadness and harshness of the world. I wasn't born bad. This was a profound realization for me. Sometimes we've thought of ourselves as bad for so long that we forget that we weren't always that way. I'll never forget the experience of that meditation as long as I live. 






-- Edited by Butterfinger on Sunday 19th of January 2014 10:13:08 AM

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Thanks guys/gals. All really helpful and meaningful responses. It sounds like for those that were ready - you got exactly what you needed. Kind of like AA works huh?

The "repeat customer" is one I've had already. Already in just 6 months I've had some clients for 2 stints in rehab. I'm glad that they can at least stay sober in rehab, and that's the plus side of them coming back. Who knows what would happen if they didn't right? However, I also say that the reason people come back to rehab again and again is often due to failure to integrate an AA program (or NA) into their life and using rehab to stay sober like a person uses a fad diet to lose weight. We generally know lasting weight loss requires a lifestyle change (or spiritual awakening)....lasting sobriety requires the same and its a lifestyle in recovery they need to surrender to in most cases.

It's hard to find words for what allows us to get to the point of surrendering to have a program and a higher power. I'm glad I have you guys to help me by sharing your experiences. MIP is like a sober encyclopedia for me at my finger tips and always has been :)

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