The powerless bit over the world is hogwash. Just like the bit abou everything is exactly the way it should be. That testimony passage used as a blanket statement for everything. What a great post! If you think your words lack power, tell your wife she looks like she has put on a few pounds. Or spend time praying with a sick friend.... Share the AA program with a person in the psych ward and visit them regularly. Walk with them into their first AA meeting. We are far from powerless. We have he keys to the kingdom! Yay Us! Live as an example of that power. Literally share the love! Thanks for the awesome reminder!

I agree BTY - my hubby told me my feet were nasty LOLOLOL!!!

I get really dry feet in the winter.

First I felt the old me nearly shrink into a mouse... but THEN - the relationship with my HP kicked in and reminded me that I am loved as I am. What other people think of me is none of my business! And I'm seriously okay with other people having negative opinions of me, because all that matters is what I do as a reflection of my HP as learned in the steps -and if I'm good with Him - I'm feeling good enough about myself to not HAVE TO react to people's comments about me! So I smiled at him - gave him a kiss on the cheek - and told him he should buy me a pedicure if he has issues LOLOLOL

But really - I am always shocked and amazed by YOU BTY because what you said is exactly how I feel. I'm responsible for my choices and my reactions to people. If I want negative consequences - I have the choice to get all huffy and poopy. If not - I can remember I'm loved exactly as I am, and change the thing I can change - Me and my attitude about it. If I try and play God again, I'm just spinning my wheels. I'm not responsible for how other people feel. My husband isn't responsible for how I feel about what he says. I always have the choice in the matter, to internalize his truth as mine - or find my own truth with God.

The more I live along side God - the more true love for people I can actually feel and display - but even still - they have to make the choice to let it in. There was a time that no matter how many nice things people said or did for me, I couldn't let it in out of fear of rejection - I know weird - but true. If I let people love me - they might leave me. So I had to work these fears out in the steps and find an all loving HP to guide me through life. I continue to do this and it works wonderfully for me :) I have never been so happy - even in the midst of stress and moving and turmoil - I find the time to be greatful for another sober day - another chance to truly live - another chance to love deeply and walk beside those who are not there yet - showing them that it's possible... always trying to bring hope to those still suffering - as was done for me. And still - it can only work if they let it. It's in God's hands not mine. I am powerless over people - but there is one who has all power - that one is God... may you find Him now :)

justadrunk wrote:

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It's in God's hands not mine. I am powerless over people - but there is one who has all power - that one is God... may you find Him now :)

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But if you found that power...As a result of the steps...And you can show someone else how to find it...Are you really powerless?

No matter what my answer is Stepchild - you have the make the choice to either agree or disagree. I am powerless over you, and as a result of your choice, you will have consequences for yourself - and you're responsible for them - good or bad for you. HP wants you to make loving choices for you so as to be most useful to Him. But you still have the choice.

What I know about my HP is that if I am making loving choices for myself - I am the most effective tool and only then be most useful to God as I understand Him. It is a selfish program in that regard - but with the ultimate goal of bringing hope to those who still suffer by being an example of working the steps, principles, and entire program to the best of your ability in all your affairs - you do have the power to be an example of what your God looks like. Others might get curious about it and learn from you if they choose to - but ultimately - it is God who gave you that power, and holds all power.

We will each have separate consequences of this conversation as a result of our choices. Mine will feel peaceful. I will continue to pray for you and wish the very best for you. I have given you an example of how my program works, and I am leaving the results of that share to God. I will continue to make loving choices today and be a reflection of the HP I understand. I will give other people the dignity to make their own choices and experience their own consequences so as to not let my EGO get in the way of someone who may desperately need a 'bottom' in order to seek a spiritual solution in our 12 step program.

I have had many more bottoms than just my alcoholic bottom. I've had bottoms with control, with food, with shopping, with chewing my nails, with manipulation etc - and these all in sobriety. They are worked out in the steps just like any other symptom of my fear and lack of faith. I continue to work the steps daily because as an alcoholic I must continue to grow or die. For me this means I continue to reach deeper and deeper as my denial is lifted and more is revealed. It is also why this program never gets old or boring - and tho I've had times where I let it get that way, I was able to recognize my complacency with the help of a sponsor and continue to seek enlightenment from her and my fellowship - and that includes you Stepchild. Bless you xxxxxx

A link to another sobriety site. A few opinions from others. A peek into some other web site people in action!

www.soberrecovery.com/forums/narcotics-addiction-12-step-support/170016-powerless-over-people-place-things-not-me.html

The same thing we have talked about made me feel like there are many that don't buy the often repeated sayings that are not in the big book.

Interesting. I can see both sides of many comments.

what a Humdinger . Great topic Stepchild .

Like so much of this programme , this too has it's contradictions .

eg- to keep our sobriety , we must give it away .

We are Powerless , but become Empowered .

For me , I found , that when I became humble , I became empowered .

When I look at & say that word , it has a magic ring to it .

 Control , powerful , powerless , mean Exactly what they say .

"If you want what we have" -  When I was a newcomer , what I wanted - was for all the craziness in my head to stop .

I could see , you had that , you Were happy with your 'lot' & were getting on with life .

I was SO powerless - yes I had the pretty lady , yes I had th right job , the fast car , th right friends . BUT I did NOT have ME.

When I was laying near death in a ICU bed , no one came to th hospital to see me .

When I got sober , I left th pretty lady , walked away from all those ??friends?? & left the job .

But I found ME . That IS the "magic energy of Empowerment"

 

 

 

In the book they talk about finding a power by which we could live...Not about a power that would stop us from drinking. If you read The Doctor's Opinion he mentions that the natural state of mind for the real alcoholic when not drinking is restless, irritable and discontented....I don't think think anyone of us want to live like that. I quit on my own once for 10 months...I know the truth of this.

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity.

When he says men and women...He's talking about alcoholic men and women. Others being normies.

So if taking the action the book tells us to take...We find this power to live...How can that exclude people, places and things......Those are the three main components that make up life. Would it have made more sense if they said?....You will find a power by which you could live....But it doesn't include people, places and things. I'd have a hard time buying that.

On a side note SS...That post that guy wrote sound like he took it from the one I posted and signed a different name to it...He even mentions the daily practice of step 7.

The big book plainly says we can reach a prospect a way others can't. We can win their confidence in an hour where family and clergy never could. It is true. We do have a power to give it away. Again, quite amazing and humbling. Knowing what I wreck I was personally.... It is amazing. The power in the program is phenomenal. That is the living message of hope!

I am new to AA (1 week only) and I can honestly say that my experience has been the exact opposite of powerless. The many people that have come forward to welcome me and ask me back have used their power of experience to get me back to that second meeting (I almost threw-up after the first one). Last night's discussion about humility gave me the power to enjoy a very productive journal reflection/meditation session before I went to bed (and I slept great). I am very encouraged by my initial experience in 4 meetings over 6 days - this coming from someone that watched 9 brothers and sisters go in and out of AA like it was a well-oiled turnstile over the last 30 years (3 of them dying from Alcoholism). I saw them, along with some of their uber burnt-out AA friends relapse time and time again so I just figured success through AA was just for people that got lucky or something?

The severity of my problem does not compare to their's (insert obligatory "yet" here), but I can easily see that they were powerless over alcohol and all other people, places and things. If I thought I was like that, I wouldn't have even come to AA until the court made me...oh, that's coming in about 5 weeks! I don't know if I will be the the best at working the steps without an ounce of belief in god or be the most inspirational contributor to this forum, but if I thought all I had to gain was powerlessness I'd be outta-here and fast.

I am already taking notes and absorbing the many ways in which the people on here and in my meetings are drawing strength from each other and the AA literature. I am not looking for ways to skip steps or outsmart the program, but rather ways to look deep into each one as I learn about it and extract the intended message. My only wish is that I become one of the many success stories so I can have a long enjoyable life and be there that sunday morning when some other schmuck sits in the back corner staring at his sneakers, crying and holding onto the bottom of the chair so he doesn't run out of the meeting.

As time goes by and I am doing my work (arrogance, pride, ego, dishonesty - you name it), I hope to articulate my experiences more as they relate to the program and not just the initial euphoria of fellowship.

Powerless over booze - yep, powerless over myself around booze - possibly, powerless over the other aspects of my life - NOPE!

 

Welcome to Sobriety..Shy Dry Guy...

Keep it simple buddy..One day at a time

 

I am ultimately powerless over other people's choices. I can set an example and attact/influence others. So, no...I'm not totally powerless over people. I have spent my whole career going on 20 years now trying to help people, though I have also learned that I am just a tool for people to use to change themselves and I can only help those that want to be helped and whom I have the ability and knowledge to help.

My power over places and things: Well...I can control a lot of that by avoiding or choosing to be around places and things. That is some power right there. I have the power to avoid certain things (like bars, crackhouses...jail....whatever). I do have some power over those places and things (not that they exist) but over my interaction with them.

It's like the serenity prayer in action to me. I have power over some things in that I can change, other things I cannot and I have some power in recognizing that and accepting it...I also have power in terms of gaining the wisdom to know the difference.

It can all become hair splitting depending on how you define "power" also. Is it power that people, places, and things exist on their own accord? In that case, I am powerless. Is it powerless against how people, places, and things are in my life? In that aspect i am not powerless. Just my take.

-- Edited by pinkchip on Thursday 19th of December 2013 06:55:03 PM

pinkchip wrote:

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My power over places and things: Well...I can control a lot of that by avoiding or choosing to be around places and things. That is some power right there. I have the power to avoid certain things (like bars, crackhouses...jail....whatever). I do have some power over those places and things (not that they exist) but over my interaction with them.

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But that goes against what they tell us in the book.

Assuming we are spiritually fit, we can do all sorts of things alcoholics are not supposed to do. People have said we must not go where liquor is served; we must not have it in our homes; we must shun friends who drink; we must avoid moving pictures which show drinking scenes; we must not go into bars; our friends must hide their bottles if we go to their houses; we mustn't think or be reminded about alcohol at all. Our experience shows that this is not necessarily so.

We meet these conditions every day. An alcoholic who cannot meet them, still has an alcoholic mind; there is something the matter with his spiritual status. His only chance for sobriety would be some place like the Greenland Ice Cap, and even there an Eskimo might turn up with a bottle of scotch and ruin everything! Ask any woman who has sent her husband to distant places on the theory he would escape the alcohol problem.

In our belief any scheme of combating alcoholism which proposes to shield the sick man from temptation is doomed to failure. If the alcoholic tries to shield himself he may succeed for a time, but he usually winds up with a bigger explosion than ever. We have tried these methods. These attempts to do the impossible have always failed.

So our rule is not to avoid a place where there is drinking, if we have a legitimate reason for being there. That includes bars, nightclubs, dances, receptions, weddings, even plain ordinary whoopee parties. To a person who has had experience with an alcoholic, this may seem like tempting Providence, but it isn't.

You will note that we made an important qualification. Therefore, ask yourself on each occasion, "Have I any good social, business, or personal reason for going to this place? Or am I expecting to steal a little vicarious pleasure from the atmosphere of such places?" If you answer these questions satisfactorily, you need have no apprehension. Go or stay away, whichever seems best. But be sure you are on solid spiritual ground before you start and that your motive in going is thoroughly good. Do not think of what you will get out of the occasion. Think of what you can bring to it. But if you are shaky, you had better work with another alcoholic instead!

Why sit with a long face in places where there is drinking, sighing about the good old days. If it is a happy occasion, try to increase the pleasure of those there; if a business occasion, go and attend to your business enthusiastically. If you are with a person who wants to eat in a bar, by all means go along. Let your friends know they are not to change their habits on your account. At a proper time and place explain to all your friends why alcohol disagrees with you. If you do this thoroughly, few people will ask you to drink. While you were drinking, you were withdrawing from life little by little. Now you are getting back into the social life of this world. Don't start to withdraw again just because your friends drink liquor.

Your job now is to be at the place where you may be of maximum helpfulness to others, so never hesitate to go anywhere if you can be helpful. You should not hesitate to visit the most sordid spot on earth on such an errand. Keep on the firing line of life with these motives and God will keep you unharmed.

Of course this is in the chapter Working With Others...Step 12....And we have gone through the steps and found that power.

-- Edited by Stepchild on Thursday 19th of December 2013 07:20:53 PM

No arguing here SS....Just discussion. It's an interesting topic and it makes you think. Usefulness is good....Going from useless to useful....Having a purpose in life. Something I never had before those steps.

Those of us who have spent much time in the world of spiritual make-believe have eventually seen the childishness of it. This dream world has been replaced by a great sense of purpose, accompanied by a growing consciousness of the power of God in our lives. We have come to believe He would like us to keep our heads in the clouds with Him, but that our feet ought to be firmly planted on earth. That is where our fellow travelers are, and that is where our work must be done. These are the realities for us. We have found nothing incompatible between a powerful spiritual experience and a life of sane and happy usefulness.

BB pg 130

I have only conceded to having less power in some scenarios than in others. Sober. Drunk, I'm a powerless idiot. Sober, I'm just an idiot. ;) I become powerless the moment I hand my power to something or someone else. I make that choice. Which means that at some point, I had power, else I couldn't give it away to begin with. Perhaps it varies with people. Like any book of import, there are layers. We can skim the words and do the literal thing, or we can look at the message it's trying to impart. Sometimes, I think " I am powerless over myself". When I set my eyes on something, and an addictive impulse kicks in, I am amazed at how quickly I can give that power up. Set it aside. But it is always a choice on my part, until I've given so much of my power up, it stops being a choice. Then, maybe then I am powerless. But I always have the option of surrendering and taking that power back. I believe it's all about choice.

Great post and responses! Thanks for helping me learn everybody!

Philipld wrote:

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Welcome to Sobriety..Shy Dry Guy...

Keep it simple buddy..One day at a time

 

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 Thanks Philip ... a closed meeting group let me sit & listen (they were focusing on the 5th step for some sort of homework assignment?) and after the meeting a guy came over to welcome me and wish me well.  We talked for about two minutes and he immediately picked up on my logical/analytical approach to every thing he said,so of course he said the same thing as you - keep it simple right now, just stay sober and go to meetings.

shydryguy wrote:

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Sober Strummer wrote:

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Shy Dry Guy,

That sounds like a great plan.

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 Thanks Sstrummer,  guidance and encouragement go along way for me and are much appreciated.  It is just such a weird/foreign place for me to be so hopeful in something that I realize that I know so little about.

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 I am an ex navy, musician, biker.  All of the things that should make me fail.  But in not too long it will 20 years for me.  Understanding is over rated.  Stacking up good days and having some self respect...  That is good.  

When I first fame to AA I was quite anti God or HP.  Not saying you are, just that I was.  I would not even read the Agnostic chapter.  Ha! 

Knowing so little about - that is kinda good really.  In the twisted thinking of the past, what I knew of reality was a twisted distortion of it.  So you starting with a clean slate is perfect.  

I like your attitude.  My sponsor told me I was full of just enough piss and vinegar to maybe make it!  Funny looking back now. He has been dead quite a few years now.  What a cool old cat.  

Keep on.  You are on the right path.   Weird and foreign is good in your case.  If it was what you are used to.... Well you know where I'm going with it. 

Congrats on one week...Yeah...This isn't about just quitting drinking...This about being given a new life...A new freedom...And a new happiness...Three things I was in dire need of. I was pretty spiritually shot when I came into AA...It was the process of those steps where I found the power I live by today. All we have to do is put in the effort..And follow a few simple rules....I can't even describe to you the rewards of this program.....More than I ever dreamed of.

 

You speak my language Mike H....I love it. Happy Holidays to you and yours bud!

Sober Strummer wrote:

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It is fun to  joke about ex wives, but I actually get along with mine.

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I do to...You just reminded me...I have to call her tonight...Belated Birthday and Merry Christamas. Thanks SS.

 

 

Got a question guys...where in the BB does it say it's okay and to have fun joking about ex or present wives?   I remember doing apologies and then amends to both of mine and also to several other female relationships I had during my drinking career.  Self righteousness the topic?  I remember being judgmental and condesending as a way to trying to inflate my ego and image and then most of the people I was doing this with were also drunks.  When I got powerless I gave that up absolutely no need for it and I didn't earn points even from the drunks.  

 

 

I only got part of that Strummer...the part where I might use someone else or the other person (ex-wife or whomever) to justify my unacceptable behavior.  I got lost in the reference of justification via Jesus and the Pharisees and the Bible.   The condesending and "put down" behavior was indication of "and our lives had become unmanageable".   I have found in recovery that most often when I changed by behaviors my opinions changed too.   

 

 

Sorry must have invited you to leave out a big part of the picture just to arrive at that I did this by myself.  I couldn't have and wouldn't have without my Higher Power, Akua O ka lani, and the fellowship and my sponsorship and the literature and more.  If I could have thought my way thru this I would have passed on it as it required way too much humility to suit my "in your face" personality.   As I have mentioned before...I didn't come into recovery on purpose or willingly and I didn't have the mental, emotional tools to sit still and quiet for a long while.  A.D.D. and O.D.D. are reall problems for this alcoholic...I am disabled (also deaf) and have to work much harder at times than others to "get it". Being dyslectic doesn't help much either.  If you don't have those disabilities...count yourself additionally blessed.  My HP goes "hands on" with me and has been doing good work.  My sponsorship has been hand picked by my HP...I haven't had it easy and I am sober and serene and largely more sane than  whene I first got here.   (((hugs)))  

 

We admitted we were powerless over people, places and things...including alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

I sure can't find that anywhere in the clear cut directions.

 

-- Edited by Stepchild on Saturday 21st of December 2013 08:10:56 PM

My father is a veteran of AA and five rehab stays. He worked hard and made a lot of money on the way, and takes care of my mother as they both approach ninety. But I just googled "powerless over people places and things," because that's what he always tells ME. "Lisa, you are powerless over people places and things," he shouts just before destroying my relationships with other members of the family, one by one. People have enormous piwers, including the power to hurt and even destroy. My sister killed herself after moving in with him. God bless you for these other viewpoints! Use your power carefully!

Lisa Wallerstein wrote:

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My father is a veteran of AA and five rehab stays. He worked hard and made a lot of money on the way, and takes care of my mother as they both approach ninety. But I just googled "powerless over people places and things," because that's what he always tells ME. "Lisa, you are powerless over people places and things," he shouts just before destroying my relationships with other members of the family, one by one. People have enormous piwers, including the power to hurt and even destroy. My sister killed herself after moving in with him. God bless you for these other viewpoints! Use your power carefully!

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Lisa:

It appears that your father is a dry drunk, having physical sobriety or being "dry", but not any emotional sobriety (and may possibly be a workaholic).  I am not making a diagnosis here, I just see things I have seen before and am suggesting that it may be the same thing (or not).  It is generally true that all people, including alcoholics, are powerless over people, places, and things, all that we can control is ourselves, but that doesn't come quickly or easily for a recovering alcoholic and not all for a non-recovering alcoholic which is the category that a dry drunk fits into.  We alcoholics injure everyone around us, including ourselves!!!  As an example of how alcoholism is a disease of relationships, it is said that we alcoholics don't take a wife (or husband), but take a hostage.

I would strongly "suggest" that you seek out an Al-Anon meeting to begin your recovery from your father's alcoholism.  If you think that alcohol may be a problem for you, then by all means I "suggest" that you avail yourself of AA meetings in addition to Al-Anon meetings.  Anybody else who sees themselves here may also consider these "suggestions"; identify, not compare.

-- Edited by SoberInMI on Friday 23rd of June 2017 11:50:03 PM

Personally, I like Stepchild's original post ... power over alcohol??? ... no way ... power over people, places and things??? it's only how we perceive our situation that can limit us ...

with the right spiritual condition, there is nothing we cannot do ... even avoiding alcohol ...




Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy

" Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of God's will into all of our activities. "How can I best serve Thee - Thy will (not mine) be done." These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will."