"Faith without works was dead, he said. And how appallingly true for the alcoholic! For if an alcoholic failed to perfect and enlarge his spiritual life through work and self-sacrifice for others, he could not survive the certain trials and low spots ahead. If he did not work, he would surely drink again, and if he drank, he would surely die. Then faith would be dead indeed. With us it is just like that."
BB pgs 14-15 Bill's Story
I guess for me it's exactly how it's decsribed in the book...I ran into a friend at a meeting Friday night I hadn't seen in three months....He was coming back...Thank God. I talked to him after the meeting....It was his second meeting back. He told me he just drifted from what he had been doing...He handed over a Big Book meeting he had run for years...Stopped going to meetings all together....Most importantly....He'd given up on steps 10 through 12....Especially step 11...His spiritual progress....Ceased. He had a terrible arguement with his son....Also alcoholic....And he found himself sitting at a bar....He told me he had blown 7 grand in the last three months...Booze and drugs...He was beaten and broke. He didn't die....Thank God....And from what he told me....He learned from it.....And so did I.
He had 4 years sober and I learned a lot from him.....I told him he had a great message that he should be sharing with newcomers....And that now he could add what doesn't work to it.....He liked that. It was great to see him back.
Faith without works for me is 'all of the above' and then some ... 'Faith' is definitely something you don't hoard ... it's like having a 'miracle cure', you don't want to keep something like that secret ... if you don't do the 'works' to help others to get the cure, then eventually you'll find yourself 'by yourself' ... ... ... what a lonely life that would be ...
The 'works' part of faith for me is having excitement about having this cure, it's something like 'spreading the news' type of thing ... it's made such a difference in my life, I want everyone to have it ... Even the non-alcoholics ...
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Friday 29th of November 2013 04:06:17 PM
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Since it is bible verse, the total context explains it very well. From the book of James.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
To me I see it In me when I know to do something and I don't. My knowledge is lifeless. It does me no good.
In others, when I see someone that comes to meetings and never works the program. In time, the life saving power will not be there when needed.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
LMAO Phil, ... yep you went southwest when you should have gone north for sure (hope the 'chick' was worth it, LOL ... I mean for you to get so turned around 'n all ... eh?) ... oh boy, the Braves, man oh man, when Chipper retired, I believe that was it for them ... they've always struggled and seem to always make it to the play-offs only to come short and wait for the next season ... They do have one World Series with manager Bobby Cox ... in 1995 ... he's gone now too ... one of Baseball's all-time winningest coaches ...
Sorry man, I'm leaving the Atlanta area, after 12 years, and going north to the Nashville, Tenn. area ... close to our kids ... 39 and 33 ... (youngest just had a birthday) ... the wife got herself transferred, and I don't do well without someone tell'n me what to do, LOL ... so I guess I should move up there to be with her ... (we have role reversal here, LOL)(but I don't mind cook'n and clean'n and building things and fix'n things) ... (It gives me plenty of time, normally, to work with AA stuff, both here and in meetings ... gotta put finding a new 'home group' at the top of my list, now that I think'n 'bout it ... ... ...
What is it about that cold country that keeps you people up there ??? ... I've been to Niagra Falls a few times on the Canadian side and it's absolutely gorgeous ... ... ... but I couldn't stay up there in the Wintertime, no way ... think I might catch 'brain freeze' or somp'n .... ... LOL
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Great posts...still learning from all of you.
(I'm like you about the cold Pappy. After the meeting, I had to run in and jump in a warm tub of water to get my circulation back and it isn't nearly as cold here as it's gonna get.)
Since it is bible verse, the total context explains it very well. From the book of James.
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, Depart in peace, be warmed and filled, but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without your[a] works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
To me I see it In me when I know to do something and I don't. My knowledge is lifeless. It does me no good.
In others, when I see someone that comes to meetings and never works the program. In time, the life saving power will not be there when needed.
Nashville Pappy? You gonna get yourself a geetar and play the Grande Ole Opry? :)
When its cold? We get to cuddle..thats why most babies are born in July :)
Well Phil, I did try my hand at the geetar, but being left handed, AND with very little musical talent, I gave that up ... so I went about just listening to the Grand Ole Opry and drinking to all the 'cheat'n and drink'n songs ... ... ... Ya know?"?? ... it took me a year or so before I could listen to country music without getting the urge to drink again ... but now I can sit back, identify with the music cause 'I been there, done that' ... and have a glass of cold sweet tea or hot coffee ...
LMAO r.e. the cold weather ... you gotta July birthday Phil ??? ... LMAO ...
Oh, I meant to ask ... when I was a kid, in the late 50's early 60's I think, we went to Canada and when we went out to eat we had ordered french fries and they served vinegar instead of catsup with them ... I'll never forget that ... seems as though they served other odd condiments with other foods too ... y'all still do that up there ??? ... ... ... My memory is a little fuzzy sometimes so I think that's what they did !!! ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Dag gum, ... I'm start'n ta get hungry now too ... but I still want my grits ... eggs over easy with a runny yolk over the grits w/a little butter, salt, and pepper ... dip my biscuit in the gravy and 'pig out' ... ummmmm ...
All my pots 'n pans are on a semi trailer somewhere, noth'n to cook with ... even my toaster is gone ... I didn't think this out very well did I ??? .... can't wait to move in to the new place next Thursday ... unpack the kitchen first is what I'm thinking now, LOL ... only thing is, they predict 1.8 inches of rain that day at the moment ... :(
Hope there's a 'Cracker Barrel' nearby ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hi to all of you. Love this topic! It's an eye-opener. While I've always learned a lot from folks who have stayed sober, I guess I'd have to say that maybe I've learned a lot more from those who have relapsed periodically. Over the years, I've sat in countless A.A. meetings where people who had once had several months or years of sobriety, had to announce that they were back from a terrible and sickening relapse. Of course, we'd all gladly welcome them back and offer them hope and encouragement as we'd share around the tables. After the meeting, many members would gather around them out in the parking lot to share bits of advice and personal experiences with their own sobriety. Once the crowd had diminished, though, I'd do something different. As troubling as their recent relapse was to me, it also made me curious. So, I would always approach the person and engage them privately. I had no gems of advice to give them....I just had a question. "What Step were you working when you relapsed??" I always got the same two responses every time: At first, they'd look at me like I'd just stepped off a purple spaceship from Mars. Then, after a few minutes of thought, they'd tell me that they were not working any of the Steps when they relapsed. Actually, they were....between Steps. While some of them were supposed to be writing a Fourth Step inventory, quite a few others were supposed to be making their Ninth Step amends. Almost without fail, they were supposed to be working on Step Four or Step Nine. They just hadn't quite gotten around to it yet. So, at the point of their relapse, they were not doing anything. This hit me hard. It made me question myself. What am I supposed to be doing right now? Am I working the Steps? While I've gained much from asking questions of others in A.A., I've also gained plenty from questioning myself. Thanks for letting me share. Blessings, Mike D.
Great topic. For me, works is DOING the program. Going to meetings. Reaching out. Always working the steps. Not resting on my laurels and the hard work I've done already, but always looking to go deeper.
