Hi Butterfinger.... $20? That will buy a lot of cups of coffee for the other alcoholics in your group and it is very generous of you! It sounds like it is doing you good to go to meetings and come to this board and listen and learn for yourself more about the program. That's what I did for several months. I wish in some ways I had gotton a sponsor sooner, but I may not have gotton the same one I ended up with, who is wonderful! For me, I really have so many problems with "me". I used to think it was everyone else which caused my drinking. Once I started AA and the more meetings I attended, I realized how many things about myself I need to change in order to continue to stay sober. I just cannot do it by myself though. I wanted to work the steps, read the Big Book, etc., and cure myself. That is like curing myself of cancer without any intervention from anyone else. I know that I have a disease (something I thought was a ridiculous notion not so long ago) and I cannot get better on my own. I was not reading the BB, not working the steps--oh, I roughly did the first two steps and a little of step 3--but I just wasn't as motivated to get any further and really didn't know how to. From what I have heard I wouldn't get any better that way either. I have started taking it seriously on a "deep meaningful level", because I want what those other long time sober ones have and I want to live.
-- Edited by betterthanyesterday52 on Tuesday 19th of November 2013 02:01:10 PM
BF, I also seem to fit into the category that you describe which can be very dangerous, and make for a very long recovery process I imagine. I too have not lost much, nice house in the country, beautiful family, great career, nice car.. blah blah. Those things don't seem to mean too much to me when I am at my worst which is when I am drunk. My family suffers, my work suffers, my health suffers, and I suffer, and I am the laziest do nothing person. For what? To feel good for the first hour of the drink until I am so bombed I can barely function and want nothing to do with anything. I have only been sober this time around for 6 days, and I feel wonderful. Does that mean I am not a true alcoholic, not a chance. I always was a smart drunk, I would drink from 5:00 (car ride home) until about 8:30 very hard and fast, then I would drink tons of water in hopes of not having too bad a hangover in the AM. Worked pretty good for a while, but then it was harder and harder to stop. There were many days where I just sat at my desk hoping no one would notice my red face and clamminess.
Its very easy for my mind to slip into that stinking thinking about the drink again, and when I am not going to meetings everyday, it usually wins. I have been driving home after a great productive day and am just about to pass the liquor store and I just can't make it by. All the bad in my life that comes from drinking seems to slip away and all I can think about is how I can manage the drinking better this time, because after all, I feel great.
This time around I am trying to change my thinking completely, and I believe the only way I can do that is through faith and eventually working the steps the right way. And truly meaning the saying "Thy will be done, not mine".
Normal people don't get arrested 4 times by the age of 30 from substance abuse problems. I have to remind myself of that sometimes too. Those who don't see or address the problems alcohol is having on their lives until much later, look at us and wish they had started their journey sooner.
And as StepChild says, I have a lot of "yets" i don't want see happen, so I'll keep going to meetings this time, get a sponsor, and work the steps to the best of my ability.
God Bless
-- Edited by d_willing on Tuesday 19th of November 2013 02:23:14 PM
I would consider myself in the high bottom drunk category. Alcohol has ravaged my life but due to some turn of events, or just plain luck, I've managed to secure a nice home, beautiful family, career I enjoy and more good things than I deserve. Therein lies the problem...even at my personal breaking point with alcohol my life isn't bad. And after a few weeks, just days even, of abstention things are great again. So much so that it becomes easy to diminish the problem. The guy who wakes up cold hungry and homeless on "skid row" is willing. A 3 day break from the bottle doesn't solve all his problems. And even though I'm just as much an alcoholic as he is I don't have the same motivation to surrender or the willingness give mysel fullly this simple but powerful program. Folks like me must be very frustrating for old timers. We stroll in with our starbucks and smartphones and plop $20 bills into the basket like were tipping a waitress, all the while not taking any of it seriously on a deep meaningful level. It's a trip to the spa for us. Some place we go for a "pick me up" when we're feeling down. The person who is truly down and out has a much better chance than someone like me. I'm not saying HBDs can't be successful in recovery, many are. I'm kinda generalizing but I'm really talking about myself.
Oh I don't forget them. In fact I think it's the fear of "yet" that keeps HBDs on that cusp of maintaining what little control we do have for as long as we do.
D_willing...congrats on 6 days, that's great! I look in the opposite direction whenever I pass a liquor store, gas station I used to get my beer. Even in the grocery stores I don't walk near the wine section. Out of site, out of mind.
D_willing...congrats on 6 days, that's great! I look in the opposite direction whenever I pass a liquor store, gas station I used to get my beer. Even in the grocery stores I don't walk near the wine section. Out of site, out of mind.
welp, ya don't have a clue about alcoholism. it doesn't matter one dam bit whether yer a cocky arrogant prick that drops 20's into the pot or a skidrow bum who cant drop a nickel in. yer thinkin aint no dam different.
theres many skidrow drunks that don't, or didn't take it seriously either.
what ya need to do is go to a meeting, sit,down, shut up, and listen. ya might learn something.
the ones that have a chance are everyone.
its your choice if ya wanna play the "oooohhh,poor me." I wont join in.
It's a legit issue. I always blamed my 'enablers' for how I came in to the rooms 'in tact' like you describe. Turns out, because we have this disease do we even discuss or think about this topic. All the more evidence that you are unique - just like everybody else - and there is much need for any kind of alcoholic to get their self 'right sized'. We're all equals ya know :) No one of us is any more important, better, worse or whatever than anyone else. I went back and forth from thinking I was better because I had the nicest car in the lot and fanciest purse - to thinking I was worse when it came time to reveal my deepest darkest side during my 5th step - to realizing that (after having done said step and the rest) that I am loved by HP no matter what I look like, how much stuff I have, how much crap this disease drove me to, etc etc, as long as I am trying to live His will for my life as best I can. Then I find out I don't really care what I look like, who likes me, what kind of car I drive or what my past entails. I am forgiven, and I forgive myself. I try to live better today and only peek at the past to see where I could go if I pick up again. All I have could change in a heart beat. It better not define me by stuff or the past or future, or I'm setting myself up for failure because I will get old and wrinkly, I could lose my legs in a car crash, my house might burn down - WHO KNOWS! Now I know if this stuff happens I'll be okay. I have HP in my heart and I take it with me and can rebuild my life with just that. Fear is gone - replaced by faith - all because people like you keep recovery alive for people like me - and vice versa. So keep coming back my friend.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
The location of the bottom only matter when we compare ourself to others.
Mistake.
Some people need to feel more pain. That's cool. There is plenty out there. No worries.
The HBD issue is some tiny bit true but mainly BS to me. Once you are sober a while, life gets better! And we all forget the bad. That is what we do. That is why we go drink again. The Big Book states plainly that we will have no remembrance of the destruction... We will be defenseless. We have a blind spot.
So many broke skid row drunks die hopeless. They have had some pain. You see the drunks and addicts on those awful TV shows turning to prostitution for drugs and alcohol. Plenty of pain but can't quit.
So again, more BS....
The thing is they lack the power. Work the program. The main purpose of the Big Book is to help you find....? What?
There is a clue in my sig.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
Well BF, ... I think you have the right intentions and you make some pretty good observations, but you sound like a lot of us when we first came in, the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time ... ... ...
If you don't care to hold onto the things you have now ... just go back to drinking ... the disease is so progressive, you'll die before you have a chance to lose them, in all likelihood ... the point I wish to make is that when we continue to drink, we miss out on life, and all the good things God has in store for us ... cause when we drink, we lose the ability to care about anything or anyone ...
We sober up for ourselves first, then we become able to love again, or for the first time, and then we learn what hope and faith are all about and then it becomes a 'way of life' ... for me to drink is to simply 'checkout' of living ... I turned into a Zombie when I drank ... hell of a life, huh? ... ... ... like my sponsor said, it's your choice and YOU are the only one that can make it ...
P.S. There are some good posts here ... try to 'hear' what's being shared ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Those are challenges you you reap upon yourself by never really embracing AA. How about instead of philosophising over crap that does not help you, go to meetings regularly and share with us what you are learning about recovery. What good is analyzing to death your unwillingness to just work the program as laid out?
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
While these may seem like obvious things to you to me they're new revelations that I thought could be important steps in my trying to figure out why I struggle while others around me are succeeding. Last week an old timer at a meeting asked me "What's different about this time? What have you learned from going back out that you didnt know before?" and that got me considering the mindset I've approached recovery with in the past. After some reflection this was one thing I came to see as one of my past problems. I was kind of proud of being able to recognize some past flawed thinking and was looking forward to having a partial answer to his question next time I saw him. I guess it was a dumb thing to think about and I'll just keep it to myself. Please keep letting me know when my insights, thoughts and feelings are useless and stupid. I appreciate you saving me the embarrassment of repeating them to someone at a meeting.
I think it is amazing that you responded the way you did above. There was one posting above which would have sent me crying and probably off of this board for awhile. Good for you, BT. As for me, I am still working on the people, places and things.
Awe BF - you do keeping coming back even with the beatings here. I literally felt like I was beaten down by some when I came here at first. I was SOOOOOO proud of myself for taking it and coming back even though people were so mean and not sensitive to my sensitivity. I think I even posted about it!
You'll be alright hun. Focus on what feels peaceful and loving and keep coming back :) I believe we come to love ourselves here... and then by showing that love to others in a kind healthy way - we do what this program asks of us. To be 'attractive'. This is a program of attraction. In alanon we say "say what you mean, mean what you say, but don't say it mean". The programs work together well, but not all of us use all the tools of both programs in synergy even though we all qualify for alanon as we 'deal with' alcoholics every time we step foot in a meeting! :)
When I was new here to the board (I came here first before going to a meeting and have been here and only here along with meetings ever since) I had to actually skip over some people's posts for a while. Slowly as I healed from my disease and the bondage of self it created, I was able to take more and more in, and now... I see that no matter how harsh it sounds - people here are only trying to help. The thing is - the disease is already plenty harsh. It will whip us back through the door if we aren't ready to be here - or kill us.
People try to help and show it in different ways - usually the way that worked for them. For me - as an adult child of an alcoholic - I had enough 'harsh' in life. I was ready for peaceful and loving encounters - and they were here and plentiful if I looked for them. I know from ACOA meetings (adult child of alcoholic) that when people are saying things to me in a way that is least effective like "get your head out of your ass son and do what you're told" (much like how our parents treated us ineffectively) all 'they' (our parents or people here in recovery) are really trying to say is "I care so much for you, and it terrifies me that you'll go on suffering like this when you don't have to, I'm afraid you're going to have a bad life and I don't want that for you because I've been there and there is a better way - I hope you'll let me show you". This 're-wording' of the same message is better for some. It was/is for me. Now I see things differently and can use my 'filter' and reword things in my mind whenever I come into contact with people who use ineffective love - like my parents or whoever - and remember that we are all just doing the best we know how, and I can dig out the love with little effort on my part... moving on to create my own happy destiny as my HP always wanted for me. :)
Just keep coming back (((Butter))). You are growing and healing and you're so deserving of a happy healthy life :)
-- Edited by justadrunk on Wednesday 20th of November 2013 10:37:35 AM
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Definition to me of "harsh": hearing something I don't want to hear.
Need to add this for what it is worth, BF, I even got a bit ticked off at your post and thought to myself, "this guy just doesn't get it". Another thing I have to work on, but I thought that out of love and concern for you. I still have lots of work to do on me, before I pass judgment on anyone else, and even that comment is wrong--I don't need to pass judgment on anyone, not even me, it is my understanding that is God's job to do. Whew, my poor sponsor!
-- Edited by betterthanyesterday52 on Wednesday 20th of November 2013 11:54:02 AM
Butterfinger, I am saying this to you in the most loving way I know how.....Your thoughts are not your friend. I see overcomplicating and intellectualizing. I am not saying this to criticize you but it's just my opinion that those would be the real obstacles to your AA program. Trying to outwit and outthink it. Yeah, your thoughts make sense in some ways, but they aren't helping you. Just get your butt to lots of meetings, get a sponsor, work the steps and do this thing!!! Please!!! We all want you to get this. The real reasons AA has not worked is because you stop doing it, start outthinking it and drop out. (making some assumptions here but you get my drift). Regardless - keep trying no matter what.
I'm not viewing you as a high bottom drunk but an overthinking one. I can identify with that.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I wanted to add that I also overcomplicated things early on and people were pretty tolerant here. I probably should have posted this first rather than what I did. The difference is that while I was busy overcomplicating, I went to 7 meetings or more a week and had a sponsor, worked the steps, did service, fellowship....Hence, my overthinking and neurotic mind did not take me out. That is all I wish for you BF, do this AA thing like gangbusters so that whatever you think wont make you reject a sober life.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Oh WOW, great dialog BF, BTY, and PC ... great stuff ... especially PC ... ... ... you are showing much more than simple growth, but maturity (in the program) ... love it ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Great post Tasha, ... you reminded me of just how much of a 'child' I was in my 'way of thinking' when I first got and stayed in recovery ... I need not forget that ... I wore my emotions 'on my sleeve' as they say and I was very angry too ... I analyzed the death out the AA program trying to find a solid reason (excuse) for it not to work ... read dozens of books on how to stop drinking without AA ... none worked ... AA saved me from me ... ... ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
My first instinct when I read one particular post here was I wanted to defend you, BF, and rip that poster a new one. I was concerned that instead of helping you that you would get upset and not come back and possibly drink. That was wrong of me. I don't know you at all. I was making it about "me" because I am a newbie and was trying to relate too much and overthinking things myself. I had to take a deep breath and click off this site until I calmed down a bit. I have heard the "shut up and listen" in meetings I have attended (not directed at me but other newcomers). There is another expression which is a bit softer, "Take the cotton out of your ears and put it in your mouth". There is something to be said by listening to others who have had and still are having success in working this program because they are the long term sober ones....I am not. I don't have the need to debate and argue with those AA members and try and match wits with them about "I got this, I don't need AA, don't need your silly steps and can stay sober without all that." I never was vocal about that, but I had those thoughts myself when I first got sober, one, two, three times ago. My thinking got me in trouble, again and again. So I am going to listen to what these folks say and if someone comes off a bit harsh sounding, then I am going to try (harder) not to take it personal because they are trying to help me stay sober and live longer. No one here on this board or in AA has to give a damn about me. They don't have to take a minute out of their day and come on this board and post anything to me or anybody else if they don't want to. They do it out of love and concern for me and other newcomers who are struggling to stay sober. Although approaches are different, I have to shut up the little voice(s) in my head that tell me to get upset, mad, seek revenge, etc. at others who may have a more direct approach in their attempt at trying to help me. And when I think about it and over the last months of me staying sober, it is the more direct, harsh approaches that I remember more. I think it is because maybe the passion comes out more in some than it does in their determination to help others not kill themselves like they almost did to themselves.
I don't know....What is harsh? I guess for me it was hearing something I didn't want to hear...Something that hit to close to home. I needed that. People are different...Take it or leave it. I've also heard it's possible to love someone to death in this program. I believe that's true.
This got me to thinking, ... I know of 3, maybe 4 in the past year, year and a half, that have pulled the trigger at the bottom of the bottle and DIED ... (from both this board and my local groups) ... they were all good people ... both men and women, that I think allowed some pride to take over their humility when working this program ... it killed them ... damn this disease ...
Some of us come into this program as children and refuse to 'grow up' ... unless we swallow our pride and start listening, to sometimes harsh advice, we are doomed ... I've seen it over and over and over ... and I keep thinking, how much proof does one need to see the success of following a few simple steps for recovery ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I haven't been upset or hurt by any of the things said to me. As a child I learned to survive in an environment where doing or saying the wrong thing could result in extreme cruelty and violence. It forever thickened my skin against anything and everything that the world can throw at me. It's also given me a deep sense of empathy and compassion for the people I see suffering around me. It's only by the grace of some higher power that the worst thing in my life is that I am a functioning alcoholic. Im not downplaying the seriousness of my alcoholism. I'm just saying that many aren't as fortunate as me and up far worse off. When I see a newcomer in a meeting I don't have any idea how he/she got there, what pain or misery they've endured. All I know is that I could never go to them with the "shut you mouth and listen" approach. I would feel heartless and cruel and that's just not in my nature. I guess I'll never make a very good sponsor.
Sponsor???? By the time we work the steps I think we have so much growth and change in our thinking processes. I have changed so much in my attitudes (believe it or not, I was a bigger mess than I still am) and I haven't worked them yet and am actually looking forward to doing so. I have seen positive results and am happier and I want more of that. I don't have any idea what kind of sponsor I will be and cannot focus on that right now. Too much to do before that happens.
Hey guys, there are those here AND in the meetings, that come across as heartless and cruel ... because they do have different personalities and communicate in a style that is sometimes hard to swallow ... let me give you an example, in my local groups, we mostly lead the newcomers into the program pretty gently knowing their emotions are all over the place when they come in ... but when my son was in an Atlanta hospital for many months, I went to downtown meetings there ... And I'm tell'n you WOW, the difference was so startling for me to hear the language and the, what seemed cruel responses in meetings, it blew me away ... but there, it seemed to work for that type group ...
And I have gone to meetings where the 'click' in the group controlled everything and I simply chose to go to other meetings and leave that group to their own devices ... plus my home group has one individual, with more sobriety than me, that is frequently very crude and rude when responding with newbies sharing ... (we tried to get him to 'lay-off' them a bit ... it works for a while and then we repeat the process ...)(he's the screaming preacher from the pulpit type, if you get my drift)(of course we always tell him you attract more kindness with honey than with vinegar ... LOL)
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
The thing about loving people is while we are loving them in a way that is kind - we are also being kind to ourselves... what HP wants for us ultimately = and will take care of our fellows too, I don't need to love them when they need a good shake on the shoulders - I get to detach with love for me and for them until they are ready to seek this by God's grace. When that happens, we can't say anything wrong anyway. The bottle will take them to that point or kill them and there's nothing I can do about it but be kind and loving and here when they are ready. Alanon say's "let it begin with me". That means all I have to do is treat others in a way that shows my love and respect for myself, create healthy boundaries and keep coming back myself. All things we learn working the steps in any program with a good sponsor that shows us how to find our God. Once I know I'm in His hands - I know you are too.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
"Folks like me must be very frustrating to old timers"... Maybe some and then maybe not many. For me I am in recovery for myself. That is my first responsibility and then I learn "If I don't give it away...I don't get to keep it" and then "I am powerless over alcohol no matter who's glass or brain or liver or body it is in. I have never met a "high-bottom drunk" other than the one that thought himself/herself one. After a while with as much experience in recovery than the guy standing next to me holding my hand reciting the serenity or 3rd step or Declaration or Lord's Prayer with me, I am grateful and elated that we stand on the same bottom. The first promise by recovery which came true for me was "If you keep an - open - mind you will find help. Strive to listen then strive harder to practice these principles in all our affairs. Keep coming back.
As a child I learned how to strike back...I wonder how it would have worked for me had my skin thickened and I continued to use "love" your enemies as a practice...it is what it is.
I really like what I read about what they told newcomers in early AA...When they asked when should they take the steps.
The answer was...
When do you want to get better?....If you want to get better now...Take the steps now. If you don't want to get better now...Postpone it...Which will probably result in you drinking.
Is that harsh?....Or is that the truth?....From what I've seen in my short time in AA...Over and over...That's the truth.
all that time I was being so flashy I was actually just harboring a fear of rejection good thing for the steps I get to replace my fears with faith....that I'm good enough and loved as I am
-- Edited by justadrunk on Thursday 21st of November 2013 09:38:00 AM
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
If you're going to toss around snarky comments about other people's I.Q., you might need to do a better job on your editing. Let's take a look at your post which contains "...ex-drinkers trying to dominant newcomers...". The word you're looking for is "dominate". Did the university not teach this simple fact, dear boy? Oh, and do excuse the rather bourgeoise posts of our contemporaries, but some of us detest pretentiousness in any form. Ta-ta.
-- Edited by AlcoHater on Thursday 21st of November 2013 12:51:54 PM
I'm glad you didn't kill youself. I like you and it makes me feel hopeful and optimistic to hear your story. Your first inclination was to stand up to what you know in your heart was unnecessarily mean spirited. Don't ever let anyone convince you to stop doing that. Taking a stand in the face or cruelty is one of the greatest character traits a human being can possess. And respect you for standing up to my not-so-nice comments. They were obnoxious and I apologize.
-- Edited by Butterfinger on Thursday 21st of November 2013 11:42:34 AM
I was what some people refer to as a 'high bottom drunk'. And sure, alcoholism will use all sorts of mental tricks to convince us we are/were different from people who need to stay sober, or that we're different from most people in AA, and that therefore I can find some other way to stay sober on my own, or I can find some other way to control and enjoy my drinking. And being a 'high bottom drunk' was just one more tool my alcoholic thinking could use to drive a wedge between me and the help that I needed. Sometimes my alcoholic thoughts would tell me I had not been as bad as others in AA, or that I was worse than others, or that I had 'issues' that most people in AA had not experienced and therefore wouldn't be able to help me overcome, or that there were concepts in AA that made me and AA incompatible, et. You get the idea.
But once I got sober and worked the steps with people who had lots of experience doing the same, it became clear to me that these things had just been my way of trying to justify in advance why AA wouldn't work for me, and that I was entertaining these thoughts because I was scared to death - what if I tried everything that AA recommended and I still couldn't stay sober? It was all just fear of failure.
It turned out that some of my rationales were not based in any truth, and the rest were irrelevant to my chances of recovering from alcoholism through AA. I also saw that the only real difference between me being a 'high bottom drunk' and others who had suffered some more severe results of their alcoholism was that, when I had been drinking, I had more people in my life who had been willing to put up with how my drinking had affected them. If my employers, my family and my friends had been less tolerant of the crap I had put them through I would have ended up living (and probably dying) out on the streets like a lot of other alcoholics. There really was no significant difference between my alcoholism and the alcoholism of other people.
-- Edited by davep12and12 on Thursday 21st of November 2013 03:45:04 PM
A drunk is a drunk. It doesn't matter what socioeconomic background you come from. Alcohol is the great equalizer. Stop comparing and start identifying with others. When I first came into the program, I thought I was a better drunk than many of the people in my group because I only drank top shelf booze which I bought by the case at the liquor store. I think back on that now, and it makes me cringe, I was arrogant and self-centered. When I shut up and started to listen and work the program, all the promises came true.
I may over intellectualize things but you people over simplfy things to retard level. To not recognize that there are different reasons why we succeed or fail in recovery is just plain stupid. This whole notion of "just quit thinking for yourself" is ridiculous. I don't want anything to do with blind faith. My higher power doesnt want me to ever stop questioning things or seeking the truth. Understanding what our underlying motivations and reasons to drink is not wrong in any way. I think some of you take offense to the term "high bottom drunk". Well too bad because it's an accurate discription. Your life had to be completely in the shitter before you sought help and that makes you and I different. Cry about it all you like but it's a fact. My points in my initial post are valid. I think I'm going to start my own AA group that requires an IQ minimum to attend. Obviously I'm being facetious but c'mon, listen to yourselves. Listen to how obnoxious you sound. You don't know anything more about addiction or recovery than I do (not even you PC in spite of your community college course). Yet you walk around thumping your chests insulting and belittling people like you're the end all be all of wisdom. You people need to learn humility.
I kind of went on a rant there ^ but I detest bullying in any form. In my opinion that's exactly what it is when as a group you personally attack someone for sharing his/her thoughts. It goes on a lot in AA to be honest. You have a bunch of mentally ill ex-drinkers trying to dominant newcomers who are in a vulnerable fragile state. I see it at every meeting. Well it isn't going to happen to me. Nope. Sorry. I'm not going to be anyone's whipping boy :)
Butterfinger,
I don't resort to name calling, labeling others, and certainly not using politically incorrect, insensitive words to make myself feel better because someone(s) have said something I didn't care to hear. I am one of those alcoholics whose life was completely in the "sh*****" as you mentioned above. I was suicidal and saw no reason to live. Alcoholics Anonymous and the people which are a part of it SAVED MY LIFE. There are sites on the internet which offer other alternatives to sobriety besides AA and some offer "softer approaches" such as it is okay for alcoholics to drink as long as they do it in a "controlled" manner. I love this site and prefer it. I have, like I said in other postings, have a long way to go. However, I have to pat myself on the back because I have not allowed myself to quit AA and start drinking again when others have upset me and that has happened several times in the past. I hope we see more of you on this board BF, although I find your postings are becoming quite "obnoxious", "insulting" and "belittling", I still hope that you are successful and are able to stay sober. And I hope you don't think of my words in quotations as being "bullying".
You have a bunch of mentally ill ex-drinkers trying to dominant newcomers who are in a vulnerable fragile state. I see it at every meeting. Well it isn't going to happen to me. Nope. Sorry. I'm not going to be anyone's whipping boy :)
I guess there are two ways of looking at this BF...You could say you have a bunch of recovered alcoholics that know how it works...And you have some fragile newcomers that are willing to accept the solution and take the action.....And you have some that aren't....I see it at every meeting...I say...Fight the good fight....Like Sinatra said....I did it my way!
I may over intellectualize things but you people over simplfy things to retard level. To not recognize that there are different reasons why we succeed or fail in recovery is just plain stupid. This whole notion of "just quit thinking for yourself" is ridiculous. I don't want anything to do with blind faith. My higher power doesnt want me to ever stop questioning things or seeking the truth. Understanding what our underlying motivations and reasons to drink is not wrong in any way. I think some of you take offense to the term "high bottom drunk". Well too bad because it's an accurate discription. Your life had to be completely in the shitter before you sought help and that makes you and I different. Cry about it all you like but it's a fact. My points in my initial post are valid. I think I'm going to start my own AA group that requires an IQ minimum to attend. Obviously I'm being facetious but c'mon, listen to yourselves. Listen to how obnoxious you sound. You don't know anything more about addiction or recovery than I do(not even you PC in spite of your community college course). Yet you walk around thumping your chests insulting and belittling people like you're the end all be all of wisdom. You people need to learn humility.
Okay now for my 2 cents worth ... ... ... 1st of all, most alcoholics, whether in recovery or not, have the character defects you brought out above & the average alcoholic has an 'above average' I.Q. ... some of us have made great strides in getting rid of our character defects, by none other than, changing our 'old way' of thinking and learning a 'new way' to think ... (our old way of thinking got us here to start with, it didn't work) ... nobody's saying to quit thinking for yourself, just change the way you think is all ...
My Higher Power didn't want me to stop seeking the truth either, that's exactly why I'm here ...
Maybe I don't know anything more about addiction than you do ... but I bet I have a ton more experience with it than most of those here on this board and in my AA groups ...
Just sayin' ... ... ... let your guard down a bit and invite us into your world, we can help whether you see that now or not ... try to throw the 'anger chip' away for now ... nobody wishes you any 'ill will' ... we DO care ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I don't know....What is harsh? I guess for me it was hearing something I didn't want to hear...Something that hit to close to home. I needed that.
amen! there were quite a few that went before me that got tired of me complicating a simple program and talkin from my pedestal that they finally knocked that pedestal out by sayin,"tom, yer too dam smart for your own good so get off the pedestal, shut up and listen cause ya don't know shit."
yup, pissed me right off. they were right. I had to get dumb to get where I am today.
Willingness, honesty and open mindedness are the essentials of recovery.But these are indispensable
I got honest and admitted I didn't know shit
I got openminded to learn some new things
I got willing to put them to work.
one of the great things them old timers that told me what I needed to hear is if someone has a problem with how I carry the message, its their problem.i have a crowbar and im not afraid to use it( to pop heads out of asses).
A real cross section of people, just like a real meeting!
AA does not claim to be the only way. It is a way. It would seem silly to attempt to sober up using the AA way, but not use the AA way.
It is easy to try some other program. No hard feelings involved. Many sober up in church. I was not that type. I needed AA. I like and share the program of AA when it seem appropriate.
On harshness, this is hilarious to me. Most of us have hung in bars and places not known for polite decorum. We were often dirty drunken liars, fighting, throwing up on our shoes, cheating, all kids of things!
But get a few days or weeks sober and we hear of this harsh treatment or abrasive shares. Funny. I know I have never heard a harsh word in a bar. Every drunk I knew would never dream of sharing their feelings in a harsh way...
But I remember a few guys that irritated me. They were stupid a holes when I met them. As time went by, I found they were not so stupid. Even more time gone by, I said fewer insane things and got fewer wtf looks and comments I didn't understand.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
Butterfinger...
Sorry I got a bit obnoxious myself. Felt bad about posting that a lot of today and was scared to get back on here for fear I upset you or others by my reply, however, I felt some "butterflingers" headed in my direction and towards the folks that have helped me and I got defensive. Hell, I just want us all to get along. I know that is unrealistic and I am one of these people who wants everyone to like me. That ain't going to happen either :) Anyway, tonight after my AA meeting, I read your reply about your baby just being born, and boy, I felt a huge guilt trip for posting that above. I remember when my daughter was born and I didn't sleep for ages. I would stay up even when she wasn't crying and just stare at her beautiful face and you reminded me of me. Hope you accept my apology. And hey, congratulations to how ever many sober days you have! I spent most of my daughter's life as a drunk. I didn't get too bad until I left her dad though, and she didn't see me at my worst, but it still wasn't good to be drinking like I was back then. My neighbor and his wife had a baby who is almost a year old. He is an alcoholic and the beer cans and bottles hit the recycling bin in his yard from early a.m. to late at night. Very sad. I don't want him to turn into me and feel helpless to help him when I couldn't even help myself for the longest time. I am so glad you are here trying to help yourself.
I drank with stuffed animals and fluffy white pillows... just saying - I was a closet drinker. Literally drank in my closet. Sometimes the laundry room. The laundry didn't talk all that often.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
"The laundry didn't talk all that often."....justadrunk, too funny! I actually hid my bottles and even glasses in the dirty laundry pile. (Talk about sick!)
LOL...Was gonna jump in and decided to just sit in the stands and laugh and remember I use to jump in quicker when I drank and then the fun went out of the who she bang. You guys are rich...I love you all. Dean we got a bet?
not really. like it says in the book "some of us must die.....". This is a selfish program, the more of you folks that don't make it, the better my chances are.
Seriously, you're going to have to work much harder, for all the distractions in your life. Any alcoholic that has an abundance of Youth, Health, Wealth, and Brains (add enablers)
is not going to get sober until he diminishes said abundance. "When all of our score cards read zero...." then the gifts of willingness and desperation can enter the mind of the reluctant.
So, as they say in the book, "try some controlled drinking"
I can really relate with what your saying! But I feel that most people do not respect me as much because I do infact have money, but im just as much a person as everyone else, and to say otherwise is just plain ignorance. dont be ashamed of yourself because you are well off. im certainly not LOL! GOD BLESS ALL OF YOU!!!!
not really. like it says in the book "some of us must die.....". This is a selfish program, the more of you folks that don't make it, the better my chances are.
Seriously, you're going to have to work much harder, for all the distractions in your life. Any alcoholic that has an abundance of Youth, Health, Wealth, and Brains (add enablers)
is not going to get sober until he diminishes said abundance. "When all of our score cards read zero...." then the gifts of willingness and desperation can enter the mind of the reluctant.
So, as they say in the book, "try some controlled drinking"
WOW StPete, ... that is one of the best responses ever ...
Love ya man and God Bless,
Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Oh, I haven't seen my daughter in over five years because of my alcoholism. She doesn't want to see me.
This made me want to cry. Please dont leave this board. Please dont leave AA. People like your daughter will fogive and come back into your life given enough time.
I just don't want that to happen to you, Butterfinger. It torments me every day and I used that as an excuse to drink even more. Thank you so much for your kind words and caring. It made my day. I am not going anywhere and I hope you stay on this board too. I think you have a huge following of people who love and care about you here, and I am one of them!
That's what drinking with stuffed animals will get ya!
i did lose my soul as well. No stuffed animals involved btw, and a good bit of stuff. But as one that is big on learning to embrace my higher power in working the AA program, I feel like I have a new a different one. The last one was clearly defective.
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"I spent a lifetime in hell and it only took me twelve steps to get to heaven."
"Experience is not what happens to you; it's what you do with what happens to you."
RFLMAO SS, ... ... ... I can't say whether I did or didn't drink with stuffed animals, but I sure felt like one at times ... LOL ... trying to remember those times are difficult to say the least ... ... ...
as far as the last comment ... some say it's like being 'born again' ... and I'd have to agree ... ... ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Just pray for God to help heal the lost relationship if it be His will ... then rest easy tonight knowing you turned it over to Him ... this could take time, so a test of your patience may be in order ...
Also, when you have some more time in the healing process, you'll be better able to communicate the right words to perhaps 'open' the door for that part of your life to be healed also ... we can never go back to the past, it is today, what we make of ourselves ... the past is history and all we can strive to do is not repeat it ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Yes - and hey... I'm only teasing myself. Our OP Mr. DJ aka James is exactly where he needs to be... so that's all that really matters here. I'm not really all that worried about you Mrs. BTY, I have a deep faith that things are going to work out for you and yours... it's our ol' friend OP that really makes me have to dig my heals into my faith.
I will say a prayer for you and your daughter, and of course for our recovery brother James and his family like always too. We all deserve recovery... xxxxxx
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Thanks Pappy. I appreciate it. I did remove my posting, because I did get off topic. Sorry about that Butterfinger...still haven't reached the point where "it ain't all about me" yet.
Hi...I am emilythembryo. 2 days sober!! High low, I don't care.. The bottom of hell still burns like a mf. I'm an alcoholic and I don't want to grow up.. I want to have the same gut wrenching wail in my heart that helped me cry out for help to a power greater than me. One that propelled me to sit on gawd awful hard chairs in a room full of people, in a neighborhood I wouldn't normally think to go to. To grab every book they suggested I read and devour those pages through the night and not have an urge to drink..how did this happen after 7 years.?? The pain of my life..was a life line and I pulled up on it with the little strength I had. Yea. I know I still stink like burnt toast..but I don't care. I don't ever want a birthday..if I have one its for my fellow embryos. Someone had A birthday. I got free cake!! But mostly, I got the sweet taste of HOPE and I want to hold on to it like I found it for the first time for as long as I got on this earth. Happy birthday to me for turning 2 days.. It is to give YOU hope.
Some lessons in this life come very hard to learn ... the fact that I should have stayed sober the first time around was one of the 'big' ones for me too ... try not to beat yourself up too much, many of us have worn the shoes you're in right now ... stick around here for a while and learn that we'll love you here til you learn to love yourself again, OR ... for the first time in a long time ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I fit the category you describe. All I can say is you're living an illusion, driven by the Additive Voice that is sitting in the wings waiting the pull the carpet out from under you. I've slipped on that carpet too many times and now it is time to live Part 2 of my life without alcohol. I've been successful and very fortunate not to have completely self-destructed from my alcohol abuse. Now I consider the idea...."Wow, if I managed this WHILE getting plowed just wait and see what I can do without the black cloud of alcohol abuse hanging over my head".
Some people are a little too smart (or they arrogantly think that way) for their own good. I'll be the first to raise my hand on that one. The future is promised to no one. All that success will mean little if your health and well-being won't support it. Humbly appreciating what you have and giving back our knowledge to enable positive change to those around us seems a better way to live.....at least for me and the example set by the fine folks on this forum. Unconditional support. Thank you friends.
As a parting thought.....
"I shall pass this way but once; any good that I can do or any kindness I can show to any human being; let me do it now. Let me not defer nor neglect it, for I shall not pass this way again."
