Hi members,

I need help with drinking but I don't know (or want to admit) I'm an alcoholic. I was born and raised in an alcoholic family. I started drinking 30 plus years ago when I was a teenager. I drink during the week (3-4 beers a day although I may drink more and get pretty hammered). On the weekends it starts Friday night and continues to Sunday night. I'll drink 10-12 beers a night and wine and I'm happy to mix with that (vodka). If I get together with my neighbors we'll usually put back 3-4 bottles of wine along with beer. When I do I'll pick up Cold Shots for myself and drink them by myself as I duck out to get beers for everyone. I'm finding the depression and the negative outlook is affecting my job and my family. I've taken online tests and they all say I have a drinking problem. When I drink I drink until I usually want to just go to bed and pass out.

I haven't attended an AA meeting and I think I could quit on my own if I try. I tried before but I like drinking so started but up but the family is really giving me a hard time.

 

Any advice is appreciated as this is getting pretty serious. Do heavy drinkers quit on there own? I find I get stressed and I'll drive to the liquor store even though I know I'll get a hard time.

 

Thanks

GTT

Welcome to MIP. The first thing is to figure out what the problem is.

If you you find when you honestly want to you cannot quit entirely, or if, when you start drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.

On the other hand, if you are what we call a hard drinker, you may have a few health problems, your drinking might impair you physically and mentally, you may die a few years ahead of your time BUT..given sufficient reason, the warning of a doctor, the concern of loved ones, an employment issue, for example, you could stop or moderate, though you may find it difficult and might need some kind of medical intervention.

The percentage of alcoholics who recover on their own is 1-2%. Apparently, long before AA, a very small percentage of chronic alcoholics had what are called vital spiritual experiences, a suden and profound psychic change, sufficient to bring about recovery from alcoholism. According to Jung, these events are so rare as to be phenomena. So, if you are an alcoholic of this type, the chances are not good for getting well on your own.

Both types of drinker can have behavioural issues and health problems, so having a DUI for instance, does not mean you are an alcoholic. The distinction is about control and choice. Hard drinkers can control or stop their drinking and can choose whether and when they will drink. Alcoholics have little control and no choice at certain times.

Hope this helps

God bless,
MikeH.

And millions of people are using that solution!!

Keep coming back either way! Just for the fun of it ; )

Welcome to MIP GTT ... Glad you found us ... some great replies already, and since it's very late for me, I'll just say 'hi' for now and maybe catch you tomorrow ... it's 'dream time' for me right now ... chow ...

Pappy

Hi GoingToTry,
I love your posting name. That sounds like you are willing to try to help yourself. I am not sure of your age, but it sounds like we are close or not too far apart in our ages. I too, have been a drinker for over 30 years. I never thought I was an alcoholic either. I just liked to drink. I have never been able to control myself, even in my earlier days of drinking. I drank to keep feeling the effects of the alcohol, even to the point I would throw up. My life wasn't out of control, at least not to me, in the beginning, as I didn't drink everyday and I was able to function after my morning after hangover went away, that is. Through the years the days I would drink increased, as did the amount. I found myself using the least little thing that bothered me as a reason to drink. I also drank when something good happened a lot of times just to celebrate. I loved the way I was able to be around people and relax when I drank. Unfortunately, I would often make a fool of myself and either not remember the next day what happened or regret what happened. I never woke up the next day and thought to myself that I was glad I drank the next day. Eventually, the drinking and the results of it started to effect my family life. Eventually, I lost my marriage, family members and the few friends I had. I have been in jail twice and the hospital several times, all as a result of drinking. My financial situation was a joke and my credit was shot. Was I powerless over alcohol? You bet I was, because despite all of these things I went through, I continued to drink and drink and drink. I started drinking as early as 9:00 am and continued throughout the day until I would pass out at night. I hated myself and wasn't too fond of everyone else. I wanted to die as I saw no way out. I knew I couldn't continue drinking and living the kind of life I had as it was only getting worse and worse and the depression, hopelessness and despair became so great I just wanted to die, because I didn't know how I could stop drinking, but ironically, I would wake up every single day, during the night fearing that one day I wouldn't wake up. My life had become unmanageable and a total mess.
I started attending AA meetings. I had tried it before, but didn't go to the meetings very long. Once I stopped going, I started drinking again. I have been sober for a few months and have far less experience being sober than a lot of these posters on here. Going to the meetings everyday for 90 days (and I still go everyday) and listening to people there and on this board tell their stories (many I can relate to) has helped me tremendously. I love my new sober life. I wouldn't try to figure out too many analogies if they confuse you. I don't think there is any recovering alcoholic that is going to tell you that you are better off being a hard drinker and to try and moderate your drinking. It is my understanding that if you are a hard drinker you are an alcoholic. I too, was not happy with the idea of quitting drinking forever, and I think that is why I love AA's suggestion..."One day at a time" as that is so much more realistic for me to deal with. I am healthier and happier than I have been in years. I would love to hear from you soon letting us know that you are as well.

Welcome GTT!  Glad you're here with us.  Some great dialog above here.  I went through countless vain attempts to convince myself non-alcoholic.  It was painful, but it's what I needed to go through to get to where I am today.  Early on I wanted to drink more than not drink.  So, no recovery, just more of the same.  The physical and emotional pain got woarse.  I started to loose things in my life that were important to me.  Became a 24/7 drinker.  Life looked grim.  Alcohol brought me to my knees and I could not go on like I was.  Circumstances brought me to a cross road in life.  To continue on as is or accept the help offered by AA.  I had no choice.  I couldn't stay sober on my own.  I admitted I was powerless and my life was unmanagble.  I surrendered to the dreadful diesase.  My life has changed for the positive since that time. 

 

GoingToTry wrote:

---

 Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions but the thought of quitting forever is hard to understand. My friend tried AA and he worked the 12 steps but he drinks anyway. 

---

Don't ever be sorry for asking questions...It shows willingness to learn...That's a good thing. I fought my alcoholism for 35 years...The last couple years almost killed me. All I had to do was Give up....Grow up...Shut up...And listen....Then become willing to admit my way wasn't working...And this way was working for others. So I did what they did. I don't fight it anymore. I don't have to.

I read this and it made sense to me.

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.
On the other hand-and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand-once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules. 

The Doctor's Opinion - Big Book

That was me....I couldn't differentiate the true from the false...My solution....Get honest for a change.

All I can tell you is this thing works...You can try anything you want...AA won't be going anywhere...That's nice to know. All I have to do is follow a few simple rules. As far as your friend goes that is still drinking?....Maybe he stopped following the rules....I see it all the time.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. It really helps. This Dr.Silkworth. He came up with this observation in the 1930's? That was along time ago. I'm not so sure there is anything "phenomenal" about wanting to drink. Seems pretty obvious to me. As mentioned in more than one response, I/we manage both stress and happiness with alcohol. Or is it manage stress and enhance happiness (although it does seem to be enhancing my stress at the moment). But based on all of the discoveries in psychiatric health care and pharmacology in the last 80 years would he have the same opinion? I definitely agree I need to make a psychic (mental) shift from attaching alcohol consumption to all things good and bad. The whole religious view is really foreign to me. I never went to church as I've always thought of them as cultish and Bill W based all of this on him membership in the Oxford Group. And obviously we have learned from history that certain things are a bad idea (like the drugs Bill W suggested would help with the psychic change in the 50's). As you can tell I've been doing A LOT of reading on the subject as I decided to take this week off to try to re-group.

betterthanyesterday52, I'm 50 so yes we're approximately the same age. I'm not confused by the analogies, they just don't seem to be in the correct context as the immediate experience of drinking is very pleasurable and I tend to enjoy the people around me more.The excitement leading up to drinking is enjoyable too. It's the aftermath that's no fun, but the people casting stones drink it up too so who are they to say?

RE..."I'm finding the depression and the negative outlook is affecting my job and my family. "....I've often thought lately I'd rather be single.

One thing I do really appreciate is the feedback I have received form everyone. I probably seem really argumentative (which is kind of true) but I mean no offense.

All the best.

GTT

its hard sayin if silkworth would have the same opinion today as he had in the 30's, but the man talked to more alcoholics( 50,000) than nayone I know of.
theres scores of people who believe the what "the little doctor who loved drunks" had to say.
yer free to do what ya want. our hats off to ya if you can drink like ya are figure out how to get rid of the consequences ya have.
doint he same thing over expecting different results, or, doin the same thing over knowin the results will be the sam is insane.

Hey GTT, ... Been reading a lot, huh ??? ... be sure you read Bill's story in the BB if not the whole thing ... this may help give you some perspective of what it is you're up against ... particularly the following clips:

(from Bill's Story)
It relieved me somewhat to learn that in alcoholics the will is amazingly weakened when it comes to combating liquor, though if often remains strong in other respects. My incredible behavior in the face of a desperate desire to stop was explained. Understanding myself now, I fared forth in high hope. For three or four months the goose hung high. I went to town regularly and even made a little money. Surely this was the answer-self-knowledge.

But it was not, for the frightful day came when I drank once more. The curve of my declining moral and bodily health fell off like a ski-jump. After a time I returned to the hospital. This was the finish, the curtain, it seemed to me. My weary and despairing wife was informed that it would all end with heart failure during delirium tremens, or I would develop a wet brain, perhaps within a year. She would soon have to give me over to the undertaker of the asylum.

They did not need to tell me. I knew, and almost welcomed the idea. It was a devastating blow to mypride. I, who had thought so well of myself and my abilities, of my capacity to surmount obstacles, was cornered at last. Now I was to plunge into the dark, joining that endless procession of sots who had gone on before. I thought of my poor wife. There had been much happiness after all. What would I not give to make amends. But that was over now.

No words can tell of the loneliness and despair I found in that bitter morass of self-pity. Quicksand stretched around me in all directions. I had met my match. I had been overwhelmed. Alcohol was my master.


-and- ... That may be true of certain nonalcoholic people who, though drinking foolishly and heavily at the present time, are able to stop or moderate, because their brains and bodies have not been damaged as ours were. But the actual or potential alcoholic, with hardly any exception, will be absolutely unable to stop drinking on the basis of self-knowledge. This is a point we wish to emphasize and re-emphasize, to smash home upon our alcoholic readers as it has been revealed to us out of bitter experience.


-and- ... They had said that though I did raise a defense, it would one day give way before some trivial reason for having a drink. Well, just that did happen and more, for what I had learned of alcoholism did not occur to me at all. I knew from that moment that I had an alcoholic mind. I saw that will power and self-knowledge would not help in those strange mental blank spots. I had never been able to understand people who said that a problem had them hopelessly defeated. I knew then. It was the crushing blow."


Self-knowledge here is of no help in combating alcoholism ... we have to work the steps and 'live' the principles of AA ... 

I met my sponsor one time in a 'book store' coffee shop ... when he came in, I was looking at some self-help books ... he asked, what ya doin'? ... I said I was looking at this new self-help book that I didn't have ... he asked, you got many of those at home? ... I said yeah, a bunch of them ... he said, my God man, go home and get rid of all those books ... I asked WHY ??? ... he said you are trying to build up the very person you need to get rid of ... ... ... he said the BB and the 12 & 12 are the only self-help books you'll ever need!!! ... just thought I'd throw that in ... I always get a chuckle out of telling that one ... 

 

Aloha Going and thanks for the entry post...seeing all of these members jumping up to support and help another alcoholic reminds me of my start in the program and I hated them...at first.  Like you I am born and raised in the disease of alcoholism and drug abuse and maybe a bit more inquisitive than you I went to college on the disease.   It is a disease...check into the AMA or the British Medical Society and others and read up about what they say...partly a compulsion of the mind (true?) with an allergy of the body (true?)  The hangover and the drunk are some parts of the allergy.  This isn't whole milk, Alcohol is a mind and mood altering chemical and it alters everything it comes into contact with...your heart, liver, pancreas and your wife, family, boss, cops, judges...just everything.  You already know that...I can sense you already know alot including that it is a problem with you or else you wouldn't be here right?  If you were not concerned for yourself why do this?

I got into recovery at the age of 37...I got into AA 9 years later.  I was alcohol free for 9 years before coming to AA so why would I do that?  I had never taken the alcoholism screen and yet had gone to college.  I got into recovery because I was marrying the women I drank with and every part...every part of my life was alcoholism.  When my then wife drank and used the party was over for me because she got drunker faster and I had to become more responsible which I could not/would not do half in the bag...my mind, body, spirit and emotions had altered and while I'd start the party off in love with my wife by the time she was blitzed, she was my worse enemy.  I almost killed her on occasions....that is part of alcoholism.  That is only one of many ways that death makes its entry thru the doors of this disease.  I got into recovery thru the first door of the Al-Anon Family Groups. I learned about the side of the disease your wife and family go thru...the insanity without the anesthesia of alcohol and believe me they do go crazy because of the disease in their lives.   

After college I went on to become (without intending to) a behavioral health counselor in a large multifaceted rehab in a large hospital system in central California.  I got to see this disease live and do its thing to men and women and children...husbands, wives, children, grand-parents, friends and associates.  I got to lay my insanity right up next to theirs and throw out the differences.  It is the similarities that took me away from all of my justifications as to why I wasn't whatever it was that I was denying and when the denial was gone I was ready to do the alcoholism assessment mysteriously led to it by a power greater than myself who watched me do an assessment on another young alcoholic and then ask me the question "What qualifies him for immediate inpatient treatment and not you"?  I had never ever heard or asked myself that question and made the decision to do my own anonymous assessment...you can do this also.  Fill it out, don't put your name to it and take it to an adult rehab for a read.  I waited in the hallway for the consequence of my own read and when it came back these were the words I heard.  "I don't know who this assessment belongs to but whoever it belongs to needs to be in inpatient treatment now or the next time they drink they die".   What I put on that first assessment was evidence that I had been in "toxic shock" three times during my drinking career.  Toxic shock isn't a blackout and it isn't a pass out.  It is part of the allergy symptom of our disease.  Alcohol isn't a health supportive chemical it is poison...therefore the term for drunk, intoxification; poisoned.  My family would tell me often...you're not alcoholic...you can drink forever and never get drunk and then later on I deal with the realization so while I'm not getting drunk what is happening?   I find out in college about being chemically tolerant and then the denial goes away.  I had be diagnosed years before and then had my drugs taken away from me because doctors had to "over" dose me to get the desired affect they were looking for and often even then my body didn't seem to respond.  I rarely got drunk...I use to get angry and rageful and violent and not drunk...and three times my body decided to shut me off on its own risking death.  In toxic shock your conscious level shuts off just before your subconscious level leaves.  In the subconscious level is your breath and heart beat and on the last toxic shock event I was faced with the question, "Did you have that one ounce too much?"  It is the last ounce that kills you.   So no...I get to talk with you cyberly.

After that assessment there was only one additional stop I had to make in my already 9 year recovery and that was AA.  Why?  Relapse which for me you are already going thru.  It is that phenomenum where we say "I've had enough" and the disease says "for now" and then we drink again and do that all over again.  Relapse is the return to a habit however toxic or life threatening in spite of a personal desire not to.  This is where I had to admit that I didn't control my drinking...it owned me. My assessment including the toxic shock brought it all back home for me...I no longer had any denial and the next day I attended my first for real AA meeting still holding out for a while.   In the meetings we identify ourselves as "alcoholic or an alcoholic" (personal choice...not confusing).  In my first meeting when it came to me I wouldn't say those words and so they held the meeting up in silence until I got the words out of my mouth.  I will always be extreemly grateful for those loving and supportive AA family members who loved me enough in understanding to allow me to be humble.

Our disease is deep, wide and old.  It affects everything and one it comes into contact with and is on every continent and island on this planet.  It predates the life of the Christ...that holy man entitled Son of God and the tap root of the religious movement named after him as Christianity by thousands of years.  Most recent discoveries by anthropologist at an ancient dig investigating child offerings revealed alcohol and drugs in the hair of the children...undoubtedly we are altered to start with.

You and I have similar taproots and mine includes the phenomenum of my mother attempting to stop my grand-mother, her mother, from introducing her children to alcohol.  I was 9 and no where in my life has there ever been as an astounding mind, body, spirit and emotional event as that first drink.  I will never forget it and the disease chuckles as I say that.  I have an open invitation to go back to it...relapse.  I have only one reason not to...I don't ever want to die that way again. 

When I got into Alanon I was looking for a place to lay down and just stop breathing.  I had previous attempts at suicide and another plan and then in recovery I learned that there is suicide and successful suicide the first being ending your life which I had failed at before and to which my VA counselor told me the toxic shocks were also.  The successful suicide was about ending how I live my life which I continue to do now.  Today I have a life I wouldn't surrender to any thing or one.  Relapse is out of the question while not out of the picture.  That is how this disease works...compulsion of the mind...allergy.  You have already described it so well.

At the end I must tell you that from the family I was born into and around I had an alcoholic sponsor.  In the program a sponsor shares their recovery and the program with us and guide us toward reaching sobriety, staying on sobriety and passing it on to others...like I am doing now. My alcoholic sponsor, a cousin, was always teaching and guiding me about drinking...there were many lessons and the one lesson he left out what that he had tried AA and that it never worked for him.  He told me that after I stopped drinking and told me also that he was proud that I did.  He died under the influence in 1991.  One of the lessons he gave me was, "Jerry you will know when you have this (drinking) right when it is just you, the bottle, a glass     and the glass will be optional".   I never told him that I reached that requirement at my last toxic shock.  I got my life back...he gave his up while adamantly holding on to our disease.  Drinking was the most important thing in his life...above and beyond anything else.  Sometimes we describe it as cunning, powerful and baffling other times we have excuses.  

You came here supported by an itch that maybe, kinda sorta you are powerless and that your life is becoming unmanagable.  That is very close to the first step all of us take to get us thru the door.  The second stop requires more. "Came to believe that a power greater than myself could lead me to sanity".  Rationalizing when I got to the doors of Al-Anon I knew I couldn't get out of this on my own...I was too self centered and egotistical to have asked for help and here I was anyway done...I already knew I was certifiably insane.

That's part of my story...only part.  I'm a couple decades older than you, sober, not Christian, in support of anyone looking for answers and sobriety.  My own sobriety date is on or shortly before 2/8/79.  I live within a 24 hour envelope only and don't drink or take mind or mood altering chemical anymore.  I am not smart...I am experienced.  So welcome...stick around and read, listen, learn, practice.  Don't let your own thinking become a stumbling block and don't drink.  You are not alone...we're all around you.   ((((Hugs))))  

Hey GTT...I think hitting a meeting would be a great idea. I don't know what kind of drinking you've been doing....I know for myself I needed medical supervision when I detoxed...Just be careful cutting it off like that...It's good if you can have someone around with you the first couple days if possible...And that you seek proper medical attention if you feel you need it. Not trying to scare you...Just saying it can be dangerous.
As far as relapses (re-starts) go...I'll put it like this...It's a lot more normal than I'd like to see it....I had a good friend go out after four years sober last week....That hurts me..But it's not a part of recovery....I think it's more of a lack of maintaining your recovery....I haven't had any need to restart...Yet. Thank God.

As far as the meeting goes...Just go and listen...Talk with some people after...Good people....They get it. Here is a good site you can check out that might answer some questions for you. Let us know what you think...And be safe.

http://bma-wellness.com/papers/First_AA_Meeting.html

 

-- Edited by Stepchild on Thursday 10th of October 2013 12:39:14 AM

Thanks Stepchild,

How much drinking? A LOT. A 4 day binge before I stopped. Not a pleasant experience but I'm working through it. Can't sleep much and I wake up sweating profusely. Had a couple of panic/ anxiety attacks. That was weird.

Hanging in there though. Drinking lots of fluids and taking a lot of B vitamins. Laying in bed and watching tv.

GTT (Getting Terrible Tremors), Just kidding but I have to laugh,

 

 

 

It's OK to laugh....Just don't want to see you having a seizure....If it gets to bad....They have medication to prevent that...Even if you can just talk to your doctor and tell him what you are doing...He might be able to help you....Just looking out for you GTT....I'd like to see you get better.

I am so happy to hear that you have decided to quit drinking and that you are going to try AA. When I first started AA I was scared to death and felt different from everyone in there. Then, very soon, I realized that I fit right in and belonged there. This board is great for support as well, but it is good to see other people face to face and hear their own stories, many which sounded very similar to mine. It is also great when you get the chips for the first day, 3 months, etc. I was told try 90 meetings in 90 days. I did this, and after that time, I still have been going everyday. So glad that others have posted to you to be careful while you are detoxing. I quit cold turkey but was very lucky. Had the sweats that could've filled a bucket, anxious, the shakes, depressed, that "white tongue" that Pappy talked about, and many other things. I just told myself that my body was getting rid of all the poisons I had put into it for so long and it wouldn't last forever. Hope to hear from you soon about how things are going for you. You never have to feel alone. Besides the AA meetings, there are lots of great people on this board who have helped encourage me and care about you and will help encourage you, too.

GoingToTry wrote:

---

Perhaps I can just quit on my own.

GTT

---

 LMAO GTT (sorry), ... I kept telling myself that same damn thing for an additional 13 years after trying AA ... I read a ton of books, many on how to quit drinking without AA ... guess what? ... when I came and stayed, worked the steps, and continued to go to meetings, I stayed sober ... NOW ??? I love going to the meetings, that is where I find my 'family' ... people that KNOW what it's like to go through exactly what you're going through right now ... They 'loved' me until I learned to love myself again ... 

I OWE MY LIFE TO AA ... it's as simple as that!!!

Try to quit on your own ... As Stepchild said, we'll still be here for you ... and so will your local AA families ... you know, the friends you don't even know you have ... 

 

Love ya man and God Bless,

Pappy

-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Thursday 10th of October 2013 09:50:38 PM

Whoops...missed the "quit on my own" part.
Been there, done that...or I should say I didn't do that....couldn't do that...until I started AA.

Here's another for you GTT, ... AND, by the way, my light humor is only because I see my old self so much like you are now ... I thought I knew what was best for me too, and I scoffed at those that said I wouldn't be able to do it on my own ... You are going through a tough time right now and I DO realize you see no humor what-so-ever in some of our remarks, again, I'm sorry for seeming so 'insensitive' to your plight ... I was so 'hard-headed' that it very nearly killed me ... Please know this, we ARE only trying to help you to think in the right direction ... what you do with all this information is totally up to you ... it's no skin off our backs ...

Try this test:


1. Do you require a drink the next morning?

2. Do you prefer to drink alone?

3. Do you lose time from work due to drinking?

4. Is your drinking harming your family in any way?

5. Do you crave a drink at a definite time daily?

6. Do you get the inner shakes unless you continue drinking?

7. Has drinking made you irritable?

8. Does drinking make you careless of your family's welfare?

9. Have you harmed your husband or wife since drinking?

10. Has drinking changed your personality?

11. Does drinking cause you bodily complaints?

12. Does drinking make you restless?

13. Does drinking cause you to have difficulty in sleeping?

14. Has drinking made you more impulsive?

15. Have you less self-control since drinking?

16. Has your initiative decreased since drinking?

17. Has your ambition decreased since drinking?

18. Do you lack perseverance in pursuing a goal since drinking?

19. Do you drink to obtain social ease? (In shy, timid, self-conscious individuals.)

20. Do you drink for self-encouragement? (In persons with feelings of inferiority.)

21. Do you drink to relieve marked feeling of inadequacy?

22. Has your sexual potency suffered since drinking?

23. Do you show marked dislikes and hatreds since drinking?

24. Has your jealousy, in general, increased since drinking?

25. Do you show marked moodiness as a result of drinking?

26. Has your efficiency decreased since drinking?

27. Has your drinking made you more sensitive?

28. Are you harder to get along with since drinking?

29. Do you turn to an inferior environment since drinking?

30. Is drinking endangering your health?

31. Is drinking affecting your peace of mind?

32. Is drinking making your home life unhappy?

33. Is drinking jeopardizing your business?

34. Is drinking clouding your reputation?

35. Is drinking disturbing the harmony of your life?

If you have answered YES to any one of the Test Questions, there is a definite warning that you may be alcoholic. If you have answered YES to any two of the Test Questions the chances are that you are an alcoholic.

If you answered YES to three or more of the Test Questions you are definitely AN ALCOHOLIC.

NOTE: The Test Questions are not A.A. Questions but are the guide used by Johns Hopkins University Hospital in deciding whether a patient is alcoholic or not.

In addition to the Test Questions we in A.A. would ask even more questions. Here are a few-

36. Have you ever had a complete loss of memory while, or after drinking?

37. Have you ever felt, when or after drinking, an inability to concentrate?

38. Have your ever felt "remorse" after drinking?

39. Has a physician ever treated you for drinking?

40. Have you ever been hospitalized for drinking?

Many other questions could be asked but the foregoing are sufficient for the purpose of this instruction.

P.S.   I HAVE known those who have stayed sober, for a while, based on a 'resentment' ... simply to prove others wrong and to feed their own ego ... and 'that' does not make for a happy camper ... they lived in misery until they worked our simple program ... I DO wish you all the success you can muster ... Please stick around and let us know how you are doing ... 

-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Friday 11th of October 2013 06:25:57 AM

I'm not saying it's the only way to quit....It just seems if I thought I could quit on my own...I wouldn't be on an recovery website looking for advice....I'd just be doing it....My problem is I couldn't. You made a post asking for advice on an AA forum...And it seems to me you don't like what you're hearing....I can relate to that...I din't like hearing it either. Well there is always one other test you can try....I'll post it for you....It seems to me you just want proof you're not alcoholic....Understandable....I never even needed to take this one.

On the bottom of page 31 in the Big Book it says, "We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some CONTROLLED drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition."
What's most important about this statement is not said in the statement, but is the fact that the Big Book authors have FIRST given us 40 pages of information about what an alcoholic is & what an alcoholic is not. THEN they say, after we have now given you all this information, if you're still not sure if you're an alcoholic or not, why not try some CONTROLLED drinking to see if your experience matches that of an alcoholic.

Marty Mann was one of the first women to get sober in AA. Below is a great example of how to do the controlled drinking test:

THE MARTY MANN TEST FOR ALCOHOLISM
(Excerpt from Marty Mann's ?New Primer on Alcoholism?, 1981 (First Owl Book Edition), in the chapter ?Who Is Not An Alcoholic??, pages 83-86.)
There is a simple test which has been used hundreds of times for this purpose. Even an extremely heavy drinker should have no trouble in passing it, whereas an alcoholic, if able to complete it at all, could do so only under such heavy pressure that his life would be more miserable than he thinks it would be if he stopped drinking altogether. The chances are a hundred to one,however, against a true alcoholic's being either willing or able to undertake the test.
The Test: Select any time at all for instituting it. Now is the best time. For the next six months at least decide that you will stick to a certain number of drinks a day, that number to be not less than one and not more than three. If you are not a daily drinker, then the test should be the stated number of drinks from one to three, on those days when you do drink. Some heavy drinkers confine their drinking to weekends, but still worry about the amount they consume then. Whatever number you choose must not be exceeded under any circumstances whatever, and this includes weddings, births, funerals, occasions of sudden death and disaster, unexpected or long-awaited inheritance, promotion, or other happy events, reunions or meetings with old friends or good customers, or just sheer boredom. There must also be no special occasions on which you feel justified in adding to your quota of the stated number of drinks, such as a severe emotional upset, or the appointment to close the biggest deal of your career, or the audition you've been waiting for all your life, or the meeting with someone who is crucial to your future and of whom you are terrified. Absolutely no exceptions, or the test has been failed.
This is not an easy test, but it has been passed handily by any number of drinkers who wished to show themselves, or their families and friends, that they were not compulsive drinkers. If by any chance they failed the test, showing that they were alcoholics, they showed themselves, too, that they were, whether they were then ready to admit it openly or not. At least it prepared them for such an admission, and for the constructive action which normally follows that admission.
It is important to add that observers of such tests should not use them to try to force a flunkee to premature action. This may well backfire and produce a stubborn determination on the part of the one who has been unable to pass the test, to prove that it is not alcoholism that caused the failure. He can and does do this in several ways: by stopping drinking altogether for a selfspecified time (when this is over he usually breaks out in even worse form than before, and with an added resentment toward those who "drove" him to it); by instituting a rigid control over his own drinking, which produces a constant irritability that makes him impossible to be with, coupled with periodic outbreaks of devastating nature; or by giving himself a very large quota and insisting that he has remained within it, even when he has obviously been too drunk to remember how many drinks he had.
In extreme cases, he may even give himself a quota of so many drinks, and take them straight from the bottle, calling each bottle "the" drink. The backfiring from too great outside pressure may also cause a complete collapse: knowing and admitting that he cannot pass the test and is therefore an alcoholic, he will resist efforts to force him to take action by saying in effect, "So I'm an alcoholic, so I can't control my drinking, so I'll drink as I must," and go all out for perdition. This last, despite the expressed concern of some people (who believe that admitting alcoholism to be a disease, and alcoholic drinking to be uncontrollable drinking, is simply to give alcoholics a good excuse to continue), very rarely happens. Nevertheless the possibility must be taken into account by those who are trying to help an alcoholic to recognize his trouble and take constructive action on it. If he is left alone after failing such a self-taken test, the failure will begin to work on him - it has planted a seed of knowledge which may well grow into action.
The "occasional drunk" usually comes from the ranks of heavy drinkers, sometimes social drinkers. Rarely is he an abstainer between his bouts, as is generally the case with periodic alcoholics. Sometimes called "spree drinkers," these are the ones who every now and then deliberately indulge in short periods of drinking to drunkenness, usually at sporadic intervals. They talk of the "good" it does them to have a "purge" once in a while, or to "let down their hair" or to "kick over the traces" and have "allout fun." Unfortunately for them they sometimes get into trouble during these sprees, and their drinking habits are thus brought to public attention. But they can and do stop such indulgences if they find it is costing them too much, for their sprees are their idea of fun, and not a necessity. "Occasional drunks" are most often found among youthful drinkers, whose ideas of "fun," for one reason or another, have come to center around drinking and the uninhibited behavior which excessive drinking allows.

Goingtotry,
I got a big smile on my face when I saw that you are still posting. Congratulations on your third day!!! That is wonderful and I am very happy for you. Pat yourself on the back because you deserve it. Hope to see a posting from you soon to let us know how you are doing.

Before I decided to give sobriety another shot this last time, I told myself that this is about me and no one else and that no matter what anyone said or did, I couldn't quit this time. I have let others hurt my feelings both in and out of the meetings. I have even thought I was going to quit AA this last time (again). But I have posted on this board and received help from other alcoholics, read, prayed to my HP for strength and guidance, and I keep going back to meetings when it would have been easier for me to quit. I too told myself I could moderate my drinking and/or quit anytime I wanted to. That hasn't worked for me and I don't know how many chances I have before it is to late for any more chances. Some people can quit without AA...my mom did and drank everyday for years. My dad couldn't. He went to one AA meeting years before I knew I had a drinking problem myself, so I was in the "casting stones" stage. He said that he wasn't going back to AA because there were a bunch of winos in there and he wasn't like that and that he was going to just quit on his own. He died a few years later. I went back and read your first post above. Your life sounds a lot like mine, as far as family history of alcoholism, amount you drink, depression, and the effect it is having on your job and family. You asked for help and you have been given some great advice which you may not want to hear some of it right now. I didn't either. I took the same test you did probably and it was the first time I'd Aced a test in a long time and I chose to ignore that and keep "controlling" how much I drank. I sure didn't want to have to go back to AA meetings and sit through listening to other peoples' problems when I had enough of my own, but that's what I did and it has helped. There are some wonderful caring people in the rooms, as there are on this board. I feel more cared about than I have in years and it took me awhile but I realized that these people cared more about me and my life than I did about my own--or they would just tell me "drink til you die" and not waste their time on me. Sure there are those that can say things that come across as mean and sarcastic, but that is everywhere. I am just trying to stick close to the ones who I feel comfortable around so that little alcoholic voice inside my head doesn't say "Get Outta Here and Go Drink!" Each day of sobriety I feel more confident and more in control and that is a good good thing. When I was drinking 10, 12, 15, 20 or more beers, glasses of wine or whatever I could get my hands on, I had no confidence and certainly no control. My life has started getting better than it has been in years. I am still new in sobriety and I cannot wait to see what is in store for me. I think it is great you are at Day 4 without a drink! Hope to see another posting from you tomorrow! I care, too!

Hey GTT, ... Congrats on 4 days ... I DO like your 'can do' attitude ... ... ... You've made it very clear that you're confident you can handle this by yourself, i pray that you can ... it's been done before but it's also very, very rare that one can accomplish staying sober by that method ... I'm just going to say that I had a very strong 'self-will' too, and I tried over and over to recover from this 'fatal' disease by myself and I always came up a failure until I worked the steps in AA ...

I could get a few weeks sometimes and then a few times a few months ... then I would always convince myself that I was better and could handle a few drinks like the 'normal' people we refer to ... I would swear to myself I am not going to let myself get 'carried away' drinking, ever again ... but all that shit flew out the window when I took one effing drink ... once I had that first drink, I changed into a different person, and my 'thinking' took on a life of its own ... I was convinced I could now drink with impunity ... and I was always wrong, alcohol beat me to a pulp again, every stupid time ...

I earned my seat in the rooms of AA and that is where I belong, it's where I receive my dose of the mental medicine I need to stay sober and it's an amazingly great life now ... no worries!!!

Oh, I happen to agree with you about that test, I DO think the average person could possibly answer yes to a few of those, without being alcoholic ... it's pretty subjective ... But still, it's reason enough to look a little deeper into oneself to see if there IS an alcoholic behavior or tendency there ... 

Love ya brother and God Bless,
Pappy

GoingtoTry,
I am a newbie-136 days of sobriety today.

GoingtoTry,
Good for you! Since you were able to buy it for your wife and not drink, it shows you have a lot of strength. I couldn't do that.

Hi Stepchild,

"If you hang around a barber shop long enough you'll probably end up with a haircut...." Great analogy. I think I've committed to being a hippie :)

So far so good. I made it through my friends barbecue last night. I was the only one not drinking and I realized no one cares if I don't drink. I made a point of driving so drinking wasn't an option. My wife drank about 8 beers when there and cracked one as soon as we got home but I didn't bite as I know she would go to sleep and I may have decided to play catch up, if you know what I mean. I need to avoid it and learn to live where I'm not compelled to drink at home on my own as that is a problem for me. I've found drinking a lot of water and Perrier helped last night. I noticed that I've associated being thirsty as a trigger for drinking and drinking water seems to curb the desire.

I'm not kidding myself here or trying to minimize a bigger challenge with a small success though. It was uncomfortable as hell last night at first but watching some of those at the barbecue embarrass themselves towards the end of the night was an eye-opener. I think my challenge will be dealing with the enablers, like my drinking buddy neighbor across the street on my court. We really pound back the wine together. I suspect this process will result in some casualties of friendships. Did many of you find that? How were you after the first week because I'm only on day 5 and I'm feeling a little weird. Very introspective.

Happy Thanksgiving!

GTT

Hi,

How many of you are using vitamin therapy in your management of alcohol addiction? Anyone juicing? Or addressed sugar consumption? It seems nutrition is critical to long-term success.

Thanks

GTT

I took a look at what I was eating - and I still take milk thistle and dandelion every day to repair any liver damage I may have caused. I take a high vit. b supplement (bill w was big on this) and extra vit. D and calcium. I also take probiotics to nourish my natural flora and bacteria that the alcohol killed off. I like benebiotics 20 strain probiotic from amazon.com.

I did cut out sugar the first go round - but I still drank again after a month. I think quitting sugar became a bigger focus for me - and all this other stuff can be worked in later. My 2nd and last go round, I just focused on not drinking and that was it. The first time I started a big excersise regimen - cut out sugar and carbs - tried yoga and other stuff. It was TOO MUCH, and took too much away from the primary purpose which was to stop drinking.

The 2nd go round - I slowly integrated concepts that were about healing the whole self - mind; body; soul. I think by that time I was done with my 90x90 though.

I'm glad you are going to go to a meeting. You have nothing to lose. It's just talking. You wouldn't balk at going to walmart if people told you it could improve the quality of your life by saving you money right? This is no different. You will likely improve the quality of your life by hanging out with other people trying to do that. It's not such a big deal - our disease makes it one because it's afraid.

How can you mention no ice cream and totally honest in the same post Pappy?

Thanks everyone. I haven't hit the craving sugar part but at least I know what to expect. I'm kind of been just keeping to myself the last couple of days and working past this weekend without drinking. I'll likely try a meeting in my area. I found some locations close by. And you're right. too much too soon is a common train of thought, kind of like drinking.

Thanks for your support.

GTT

GoingToTry wrote:

---

I'll likely try a meeting in my area. I found some locations close by. And you're right. too much too soon is a common train of thought, kind of like drinking. 

---

I know for myself...I had to jump right into it...Because for me...Not enough too soon is just what I need to talk myself out of it. Just keeping an eye on you GTT. You never know....You might even like it. I'll tell you how I felt when I left my first meeting....For the first time in many years I had hope....And I knew I was where I was supposed to be....

Stepchild wrote:

---

GoingToTry wrote:

---

I'll likely try a meeting in my area. I found some locations close by. And you're right. too much too soon is a common train of thought, kind of like drinking. 

---

I know for myself...I had to jump right into it...Because for me...Not enough too soon is just what I need to talk myself out of it. Just keeping an eye on you GTT. You never know....You might even like it. I'll tell you how I felt when I left my first meeting....For the first time in many years I had hope....And I knew I was where I was supposed to be....

---

 A common question asked is how long does it take to get on safe ground?

Experience shows it takes the same length of time as working the first 8 steps thoroughly, being into step 9, and trying to live in steps 10 11 and 12, and that can be as little as a few weeks. This is the point that sanity returns.

Another common question is how long have I got? If I understand what it means to be powerless, no one knows how long I've got. The obsession can return anytime and I can find myself drinking without conscious thought anywhere between step 0 and 8.

The wonderful thing about the steps is that if we miss something important, we will be brought back to it. Perfection is not the goal, progress is.

God bless,

MikeH

 

 

My first meeting sucked. I hated it. I landed in a very strange group - and like you - had no idea what I was about to walk into. Totally clueless that alcoholism was a disease - had never been to treatment - didn't even google it. I came here - like you - and people supported me - like what you're receiving. I was defensive and also realized I was loved even though I didn't deserve it. I learned and used the word thank you here.

My second meeting convinced me I was home. It was just regular AA - no 'group'. We have a weird thing in our town called 'the pacific group'. Rules and hierarchy and weird stuff that is not what AA is in my opinion. Not all AA is the same, and you will need to find a group you feel relatively comfortable with - however don't expect everything and everyone to be absolutely perfect. That is not possible in AA or anywhere in life, however, it can work for you and you are not unique or different like your mind will want you to believe. Look for the similarities not the differences they told me. They knew me better than I knew me - but that is changing - I am learning about who I am and my life is radically different than when I first got here - for the better.

Anyway - I started putting other things ahead of my sobriety after about 30 days - and then I drank again. I thought my kids and family should come first - but at that point - my sobriety still needed to come first ahead of anything and everyone.

So I drank like a fish again, and went all the way down - all over again in a short few weeks. I came back this time ready to do what was in the big book and what people suggested - and I've been sober since. About a year and a half. The one thing I knew while I was drinking again - was that AA had the answer - I just didn't see how I could make it work in my life with kids and a family. Well - I finally realized that I would have to because otherwise I would lose them. So it meant leaving every day for a meeting for 90 days, and putting my program and sobriety first.

I knew deep down I was an alcoholic - that's why I didn't want to say it. Once I said it, I felt strangely better, and I've felt better and better ever since.

Congrats on one week GTT...That was huge for me...I have to give you credit...You keep coming back. You know this may be something you can do on your own...There is no way for any of us to know that...I think what you have here is a group of people that couldn't....But did find a solution. If you do find that you can't do it on your own...It's nice to know you have a group of people here...And all over the world for that matter...That would be more than willing to help you...For the simple reason....That's what we do. I'm glad you are here anyway.

GoingtoTry,
Congratulations on your making it through so many days! That is great! I had a couple of glitches myself over the weekend but got through it without drinking and boy do I feel good about myself. Going to meetings, posting on this board, praying to my HP all kept me sober!!!! It also has helped me to tell family members about my sobriety and to let them know my day counts. They have really encouraged me and I thought to myself during my weak moments that I sure would hate to tell them I relapsed and had to start over. You are doing a great job and should be very proud of yourself.

Hi Pappy,

That's a really good point. I told them I was "quitting" and that is exactly what it is.......a process, not a promise. I also said I'll do my best but I'm not perfect (as previously demonstrated) so don't hold me to perfection. It's something I need to work through. And Pappy, as I run into walls, or feel or see I'm standing in the train tracks in the path of the moving train bearing down I'll take you up on your offer. I definitely have challenges coming up for sure......holidays.......open bars.......and on some of those occasions I'll be on my own with no one to justify myself to. That's next month and I'll be traveling on my Bday.

One thing I do really notice is THAT BLOODY VOICE in my head. It's gets pretty annoying but I was the one that gave that voice a place to shout and I can take that place away. I did this to myself, perhaps unknowingly and unintentionally, but I did this and when I realized that I also realized I actually did a pretty good job. I mean, I was THOROUGH about it! It took YEARS so I don't expect to change overnight.

Let the games begin!

Peace

GTT

-- Edited by GoingToTry on Tuesday 15th of October 2013 06:19:24 PM

Hey GTT, ... I am only going to say this as a 'caution' ... ... ... For me? ... I learned early on, that I dare NOT make any promises, because I broke so many of them in the past ... I have learned a very hard lesson during my time in AA ... "ONE DAY AT A TIME" is the only way I could stay sober ... I learned there is no such thing as tomorrow when it came to my drinking, I could only look at 24 hours, no more ... I learned that it wouldn't kill me to not drink for just one day ...

I told my wife the last time that I wasn't making any promises cause I don't know what tomorrow, if we get one, will bring ... it helped me to know that just maybe, I'll be able to drink again someday, JUST NOT TODAY ... ... ... well, those 'one day at a times' added up to years now, and life is better than I can possibly describe ... and damn sure a hellofva lot better than it was ...

I'm just saying to be a little cautious of what you promise your family ... it has come back to bite many of us on the butt, big time ... it's called 'burning a bridge over which you may have to cross again' ... that said, I do love your attitude ... you have many personal tests in front of you and we are here to help you pass the exam ... ... ...

Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy

GoingToTry wrote:

---

I told them I was "quitting" and that is exactly what it is.......a process, not a promise. 

---

I have to ask you...Can you explain what this process is?...And have you tried this process before?

Hi Pappy,

A quick question for you and perhaps it's semantics but how did you infer from my post about telling my wife and son I was quitting that I was making a "promise"? Yes, I did tell them I quitting but I'm not sure how that translated to a "promise" as in "I promise I'll never drink again". I'm just curious as what you said stuck in my mind. As a personal rule, I try not to prescribe promises to something like drinking because I find it next to impossible to wrap my head around "forever". It's too intangible. I understand the benefit of 'One day at a time". My goal right now is to learn to be comfortable with the "I don't drink" mindset.

Thank you for the advice though. Alternative perspectives that challenge my frame of mind are most welcome and appreciated.

Best regards,

GTT

Hi Stepchild,

"But doesn't it seem a little odd that you see a process that works for so many...And yet you want to do your own process which you don't even know what it is?".........

No, it doesn't seem odd to me at all. Everyone is different. I can relate to the stories of everyone here and that AA has been very positive. Is it for me? I don't know, maybe, maybe not. I've certainly lived the same life and consumed alcohol in the same self-destructive manner for more years than some and have been behaving like an alcoholic. I also have specific views and beliefs about myself and how I need to move forward. I've decided to quit. Period. Sometimes that is enough of a process. I completely accept the way I behaved and it was not good. I've made a lot of mistakes. My drinking has been excessive for way too long and it's time to quit. I know myself and I know the pattern and I hear the voice. I don't expect there will be no urge to drink. I'm experiencing that now. I wrestle with it and the fact it whispers "relax, have a drink" or "join in the fun! have a drink" or worse "turn left into the parking lot" without a thought. I feel at odds with myself, being yanked in 2 directions, one forward and one back. I accept that this is part of my life at the moment so I focus on my goal and try to relax. It's like having an argument with yourself. One thing I've realized about arguments is it takes 2 to argue. When I relax, maintain an even tone, and stick to my decision I hold my own. I've trained martial arts for a long time and I know one thing.....you can't always be in a constant state of resistance. You have to use the power of your opponent against them to defeat them. You have to relax, otherwise you fatigue.

I definitely need to develop new habits in the way I think, that's for sure. In time. On to day 9! One thing I have realized.....I have a choice.

And thanks for the prayers and the good karma stepchild. It's great fuel.

GTT

Hey GTT, ...

I just wanted you to know that the 'change' you were talking about is exactly the right direction for you to seek ... that is the right track for you to be on ... thanks

GoingToTry wrote:

---

Have you recovered?

---

Yes....If I honestly work those first nine steps...And continue to live in steps 10, 11 and 12. ...A design for living.

This thought brings us to Step Ten, which suggests we continue to take personal inventory and continue to set right any new mistakes as we go along. We vigorously commenced this way of living as we cleaned up the past. We have entered the world of the Spirit. Our next function is to grow in understanding and effectiveness. This is not an overnight matter. It should continue for our lifetime. Continue to watch for selfishness, dishonesty, resentment, and fear. When these crop up, we ask God at once to remove them. We discuss them with someone immediately and make amends quickly if we have harmed anyone. Then we resolutely turn our thoughts to someone we can help. Love and tolerance of others is our code.

And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone - even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.

 

GoingToTry wrote:

---

Thanks Pappy, Your feedback is valued and appreciated. I've read  through the BB and I've read the Doctors opinion as well. I do agree about the "mental shift". I feel I've made that shift in my mind. I'll be honest with you though, I'm keeping my mind open to all aspects of discovery and methods as they relate to recovery. The good doctor had great insight however he was also limited in scope and access to the knowledge available today. I can't disregard all of the discoveries and progress that have been made in the last 70+ years since he wrote that. I do know Bill W was in a constant state of research and discovery and would likely have evolved his process of recovery in light of the discoveries made in the last 40+ years since he passed away. There are SO MANY options for treatment that were never considered previously and more will present themselves in the future. That is why I need to find my own "process".

A question for you since you have so much experience with over-coming your alcohol abuse (and anyone else that cares to share). Have you recovered? Is this now behind you? You don't drink anymore so will you continue to attend meetings and do the 12 steps for the rest of your natural life? I ask as I'm trying to distinguish between recovered and recovery (or perhaps healed and healing). I do focus on today but I find I have to plan ahead and work though the future to re-enforce my decision as I will be faced with situations that I know have been triggers. Eventually tomorrow will be today.

Thanks for your insights. Much appreciated.

GTT

-- Edited by GoingToTry on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 08:00:37 AM

---

 Wow, you're digging in with both feet, huh? ... ... ... 

1st of all, there was recent post about a recent Psychiatry seminar, or something like that, where a renowned doctor, or some expert in the field, got up to speak on the advances in treatment of alcoholism ... I may not have the exact details in order, but the message is still the same ... He spoke before the crowd and the first thing he said was, Dr. Silkworth was right all along ... nothing but a spiritual experience is going to help these folks, long term anyway ... he went on to explain that there was little to no advances that out performed the 12 steps in AA ... ... ... take that however you see fit ... I know that there are places, treatment centers all over the place that make BIG promises, but in the end, they usually always fall short of what they claim they can do for the rehab of an alcoholic ... 

2nd ... there are many that will be glad to argue over whether or not one is completely 'recovered' or not after some time in AA and not drinking ... I have not found it necessary to drink for well over 5 years now ... and from that standpoint, like Stepchild said, the problem has been removed as long as I maintain my 'daily spiritual contact' with God (my HP) ... Do I consider myself 'recovered' ??? ... For me, that is just too dangerous ... and I'll tell you why ... for me, I quit for a long time before, and I knew I had this thing whipped, but that led to me to letting up on my spiritual program and that led me to believe I could drink without going overboard cause I thought I had 'recovered' ... ... so I drank again ...

This is just me don't forget, ... but I don't feel I can receive a 'daily reprieve' from this disease without continued meetings where we learn that helping others is actually helping ourselves, indirectly, you see ... You've heard 'You can only Keep your Sobriety by giving it away' ... which is what we do here ... there are a whole lot of other things most of us could being doing right now besides sitting here discussing this with another alcoholic, but by me talking to you, I am feeling much better about my sobriety and will likely not drink today ... that's why I do it ... 

And YES, God willing, I WILL continue to go to meetings and work the 12 steps the rest of my natural life ... there are many that will need help, maybe I can be of service ... BUT I don't look at it that way, I just see it as working the program 'today' ... and I do go to at least two meetings a week and more if I pick up a sponsee ... ... 

Don't allow the thought of committing to AA, all this 'I got to go the rest OF MY LIFE if I want to stay sober' ... There is NO such commitment ... simply just a desire to stay sober by talking to another alcoholic, that's all ... I and others have come to enjoy it and would hardly be the same if not for our brothers and sisters in AA, we're family, we love seeing and being with one another ... it's life fulfilling ... come let us love you until you can learn to love yourself ... 

 

God Bless,

Pappy

 

-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 05:43:11 PM

I know all too well how to get un-recovered ... ... ... with many diseases, one can recover and not even concern oneself of recurrence ... but with alcohol being so cunning, baffling, and powerful, it can come back to full blown power in a heartbeat, all it takes is one drink ... I've proved that to me more than a few times ...

So for me, I carry this disease with me everywhere I go, but because of this program, I can chose not to drink today ... and I know my disease is over in the corner doing push-ups as I write this ... he refuses to leave ... and I know as long as I stay spiritually fit, I'm okay ... but some days I don't feel so spiritual ... that's why I go to meetings and come here ... I do know what the book says:


We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutralitysafe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition.
It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition.


Great subject ... I knew this would get things hopping here ... LOL ... I have to ask, if we are 'not cured', are we recovered ??? ... Or should we look at the definition of 'recovery' or 'recovered' and see if the context it was used in is appropriate or in proper context ? ... 


Love you guys and God Bless,
Pappy

-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Wednesday 16th of October 2013 08:15:25 PM

Hi betterthanyesterday52,

Thank you for sharing your story. I don't think you, or anyone else on this site is shoving anything down my throat. I can sense you all genuinely care and I also sense, based on your experiences, that you want to save me the anguish and destructive consequences of fooling myself into thinking that I may deluding myself on my approach to quitting. Trust me, I'm not taking this lightly. I have a lot of work to do.

Stepchild....."We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality...." This is exactly how I feel about it; neutral. As much as I've enjoyed it, drinking doesn't work for me. Nether does smoking weed and I quit that years ago (well at least when I wasn't drinking because after I'm hammered a lot of things seem like a good idea that I would otherwise not participate in).

TRust me when I say this, I'm not trying to resist your suggestions. I'm taking all your input seriously.

All the best.


GTT

You're asking about things (recovered or 'in recovery') that most will take a long time to get around to ... no big deal really, you seem like me, I wanted to know 'everything' about this 'alcoholism' thingy I had ... read all the books and all the history and stuff ...

Actually, I think I was looking for some other way to get well other than AA ... I really don't know why that bothered me back then ... glad I jumped in with both feet, as they say ...

I don't consider myself cured...I do consider myself recovered...Being restored to sanity and having the obsession removed is more than I could have ever dreamed of. We have maintenance steps pappy...If we stop maintaining this...The results will not be good. That's pretty true with anything. Step 12 talks about carrying this message to other alcoholics...What better place than meetings to do that?...Where else can you find Unity, Recovery and Service in one room? I know GTT and a lot of people get a little uptight about the thought of having to go to meetings FOREVER!!!...I look at it like...Wow....Here are people sick and suffering just like I was...And I can share something I have to help them....That's amazing...From useless....To useful. What a gift!

That's fine Pappy...I have complete 100% faith in God's will for me...If I seek it...Thy will not mine be done...And that if I continue to follow these few simple rules I will never drink again...I'd have to try real hard to screw it up...And that for me would be like slapping God in the face....I don't see that happening. To each his own...As long as we remain sober....That's what counts....Because I do know...For me to drink is to die.

 

 

Fyne Spirit wrote:

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 I suffer from another allergy, hayfever. It got me real bad the other day. I took an antihistamine and later one of the neighbours commented that he was glad to see I had recovered from my bout of sneezing. I haven't cured the allergy, it's there for life just like my allergy to alcohol, but I am not suffering from hayfever today and neither am I suffering from alcoholism.

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That's a very good analogy...Would it be safe to say...If you stopped taking your medicine you'd still be sneezing?

LOL