here i go again....

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

here i go again....

Angell · Senior Member

You did nothing to deserve the treatment that you've described. Does that help? If it does not help, then it is likely that you suffer a malady that many of us do, one of being a people pleaser. It is a common trait amongst us alcoholics and is something that with work you can recover from as well.

StPeteDean · MIP Old Timer

Hello BTY52, I don't go to meetings that I feel uncomfortable about. Sounds like there are some sick people in that meeting (is it a AA club?) and it's not uncommon for people to act clickish as some meetings. Mix that together with this seemingly fundamentalist (AA Nazi) trend and it equals people who are supposed to be sober and help new members acting ugly and all controlling. I would leave that meeting and find others. The more established meetings will be located at churches and there will be people with long term sobriety there. You won't see this kind of behavior from senior citizens with 25-50 years of sobriety. In the mean time, don't lose any sleep over the actions of these sick people. Even if you had possibly said something that rubbed someone the wrong way (i'm doubting that you did), you're still a newcomer and these folks should not give it a second thought. Newcomers are supposed to say and do zany stuff, what would a person who's been around AA for awhile expect? If they are reacting to someone else it's there problem. And "It's better to give a resentment then to get one", this is a selfish program. Take care of yourself, help others when you can, and don't worry what others are thinking.

-- Edited by StPeteDean on Friday 27th of September 2013 08:18:34 AM

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Thank you, Angell. I have been called a "people pleaser" all of my life. I never thought of it as something I have to recover from as I like doing things for people. At one meeting, in my 2nd week of sobriety, a man spilled his coffee. He was older and had trouble leaning over in his chair to clean it up and I got up, got some paper towels, and helped him. At another meeting, a group of young men came in and were standing as the meeting had so many people and they didn't see any chairs available. I got up and found some chairs in a corner of the room and got them for them, and even gave up my chair for one of them. (I made a joke later to my family that it was the first meeting I "chaired".) I think I will always be that way. I used to think that I am that way because I want everyone to like me. As I have gotton older, I realize that it is impossible for everyone to like me but I cannot use that as an excuse not to try and be nice to people. But a huge flaw I have had in the past is that I have volunteered for things in church, women's groups, school functions for my child, etc. I would be all gung ho about doing whatever needed to be done to help. But whenever someone would say something to me and I would get my feelings hurt, I would be totally devastated and wind up quitting. I told myself in AA that there would be times I would get hurt feelings and I couldn't just quit. (In fact, this is my fourth time in AA and I have quit everytime because I would get hurt feelings.I have never made it to three weeks before now) This time in AA, I have gotton hurt several times and I have told myself that I cannot let my oversensitivity cause me to quit AA this time. I pray daily to my HP to not let anything people say and do cause me to do just that. But this is really hard as it is not just one person, but several, so I don't know what I am going to do. Some of these people go to some of the other meetings I go to and I cannot run from them but most of all, I cannot run from myself, and I don't know how much more of "me" I can handle.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

pinkchip wrote:

If she had any people skills at all her approach ought to have been different. I would have come up to you and said "BTY, you seem like you are really taking this seriously. You are going all out with meetings every day and helping out. I just hope you find a sponsor to work with and that will really get you moving forward even more. Great job so far though. If you want suggestions or to bounce ideas about a sponsor off me, I'm available whenever you want. Here is my number." That is how we are supposed to reach out to newcomers ideally.

Exactly PC....Not this.....

"Well, when you are serious give me a call, but we are not going to let you threaten our sobriety."

I've never heard of anything like that...And I know that would have put me off too.

-- Edited by Stepchild on Friday 27th of September 2013 09:11:45 AM

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hi BTY, ... ... ...

I will only say that in my 1st year of sobriety, I wore my 'feelings'(emotions) on my sleeve ... every little thing others did seemed to have an effect on me ... my 'sensitivity' level was locked on 'high' ... and I learned later, that things people would say or do or not do, wasn't something I caused ... ... ... I had the emotional maturity of a 13 year old, LOL ... ... ...

I then learned that what others think of me or how they 'act' in front of me is 'none of my business' nor should it be any of my concern ... It was suggested that I come and take what I needed from the meetings and leave all the rest ... I found that there are little groups of people, 'clicks' if you will, that have there own little thing going, and sometimes it's hard to figure them out, so I stopped trying to ... and I agree with Angell, I'm not there to please other people, I'm there to strengthen my sobriety ... and to help others if the opportunity presents itself ...

Congrats on 4 months ... you should be feeling a change taking place by now ... and if you aren't, let us know here and we'll share our experiences ...

Love ya and God Bless,
Pappy

2granddaughters · Senior Member

What does your sponsor say about what happened? Have you discussed this with the trusted oldtimers at your meeting?

You need a good oldtimer who knows the personalities involved to sort this out for you.

All the best.

Bob R

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

betterthanyesterday52 wrote:
I didn't want to post on the board because I feel like I am sounding like a broken record and worry about getting criticized for it.

First off....Don't ever feel like that....Not here anyway. Second...A BIG congrats on 4 months! I know when I was early in my sobriety....I didn't trust anybody either. I felt like everybody was looking at me. I knew that the program of AA...The thing I needed to do to make those promises come true....Was the 12 steps. I looked for someone that looked at peace...That wasn't a part of any clique...That shared about recovery...The steps. I prayed to God to help me find the right one. When I saw someone that I felt had what I wanted....I walked up to him after a meeting and asked him if he would take me through the steps....That's where things changed for me....I started to trust more....Those promises started coming true...But I had to take the action to make that happen.

I'm glad you are here....And I pray you find the willingness to take that action.

We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness.

Who wouldn't want that?

pinkchip · MIP Old Timer

BTY - I echo what others said. It's always good to come here or to other people in AA that you do trust to get things out of your head/off your chest. It's the thoughts and resentments that take us out. Anyhow, I do think finding a sponsor will help you lots, but it's your prerogative. These folks probably are wanting you to find a sponsor and work the steps and feeling that this is the "real recovery" you should be engaging in. While that is true, at your stage in sobriety, showing up to meetings and just trying your hardest and not picking up is also good and it's not that unusual to go without a sponsor for a bit.

Probably the lady is thinking you rejected her or have it in your mind that you have a "better way" than to do the steps with a sponsor and you are just going to do AA with meetings and that's it (which is half measures). If she had any people skills at all her approach ought to have been different. I would have come up to you and said "BTY, you seem like you are really taking this seriously. You are going all out with meetings every day and helping out. I just hope you find a sponsor to work with and that will really get you moving forward even more. Great job so far though. If you want suggestions or to bounce ideas about a sponsor off me, I'm available whenever you want. Here is my number." That is how we are supposed to reach out to newcomers ideally.

Do keep looking for a sponsor and do keep reaching out. You are doing this for you and to get better....to move past trust issues and fear of people (those things that made you drink). Can't afford to form thoughts that reinforce old behaviors (like when you say "I just want talk to anyone.")...those thoughts are your disease talking regardless of whether or not someone else has acted dumb or mistreated you.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Wow! I feel so much better reading your postings. I felt all alone and last night was the pits. I don't feel so all alone now but still very depressed about all of this. I started to go up to the woman after the meeting and ask her what I did to make her upset at me so I could apologize to her. I cannot stand anyone being mad at me (sorry if I am repeating myself) and in the past have always tried to right any wrongs I have made. I have even apologized to people when it was them who hurt me. Not sure if that is desperate, needy or ridiculous. I just don't like the negative energy draining me like this is doing now. I know I am too sensitive and have to take that into account as well. I really really want to be a better person and get to the point where I am able to help others like you guys are doing. I have thought about posting answers to some of the people on this board who are struggling, but think I am still such a mess myself and have no right or long enough in sobriety to give anyone else advice yet.

I was right about not getting much sleep. Finally fell asleep around 5:00 am and got up at 8:30 this morning. I am going to a noon meeting and going to drag myself to another meeting at 5:30. I have been really listening to women at the meetings and trying to mentally find a sponsor. I know from listening to others in the meeting that it is an important part of recovery. One lady who has shared a lot in the meetings and who I was considering asking if she would be my sponsor came to a meeting and she was obviously on alcohol or drugs. I didn't want to assume she had been drinking. She was completely different in her share and slurred her words and my heart sank for her. Surprisingly, although there are quite a few women at some of the meetings I go to, very few have been raising their hands to be a sponsor. I have been praying to my HP to help me find one. I am afraid though to be totally open with anyone and especially after this all has happened to me. This woman I mentioned in my posting above is very active in AA and has a lot of friends and I may have screwed up my chances of finding one who even wants to sponsor me if something has been spread about me.
Anyway, not sure if what I said above is clear as stumbling over the keys on this because I am exhausted. Thanks to you all who posted responses. I read and re-read answers I get several times and am in awe at a lot of the replies. Hopefully I will be able to help others in my area and on this board struggling with this disease like you are are doing and thank God for this site as you all really have helped me so much.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

betterthanyesterday52 wrote:
I have been praying to my HP to help me find one.

Keep doing that and have faith that it will happen...It will. And for what it's worth.....You've helped me today.

davep12and12 · MIP Old Timer

betterthanyesterday52 wrote:
... I started to go up to the woman after the meeting and ask her what I did to make her upset at me ....

... I have been really listening to women at the meetings and trying to mentally find a sponsor. ...
...there are quite a few women at some of the meetings I go to, very few have been raising their hands to be a sponsor. I have been praying to my HP to help me find one. ....
....I may have screwed up my chances of finding one who even wants to sponsor me if something has been spread about me. ...

.....Hi betterthanyesterday52, I gotta say that I related to all of this stuff, it sounds A LOT like the things that were going through my mind when I was early in sobriety and had not found a sponsor yet. It turned out that I was just completely 'over thinking' the whole situation and it was much, much simpler than I was making it out to be. All I had to do was find someone who had experience working all 12 steps in their own recovery, and as a result had some measure of serenity in their life without craving a drink, and ask them if they would show me how they did that.

And sure, you may want to find out what that woman was talking about with her remark about 'threatening our sobriety' if it bugs you, but it's far more important to get a sponsor who can show you how they worked the 12 steps. If you are anything like me and if your alcoholism is anything like mine, this will make all the difference. The meetings and the fellowship are important, but the program of recovery is in the steps. Don't sell yourself short by trying to rely only on the meetings and the fellowship to stay sober. It's not the most comfortable or effective way to do it. You deserve the best recovery you can give yourself. Go for it.

tomsteve · Senior Member

one thing ive learned in AA:
just as it takes time for some to get over their sensitivity, so it also is with people and their ego.
don't let egos stop ya from getting the help you want. seek out the fellowship you crave.

Mike D · MIP Old Timer

Good Morning BTY!! First of all, I do hope you got a good nights sleep last night after so many good folks have responded to you with a lot of love and compassion here. Hope it has been helpful and I do hope you're feeling better. I feel bad that you're having negative experiences in the Fellowship. To me, it's just plain WRONG and I wish it would never happen, but we all know that it does. I'd like to help in some way, but quite frankly, after reading all the great responses to your situation, I'm hesitating to write because I'm not sure I really have anything all that helpful to add. Yet, I would like to say a couple of things that I have on my mind about this.

Yes, I know it was 25 years ago when I was new to A.A. but I still remember how sensitive I was at that time, and I recall how much I focused myself on the PEOPLE in the Fellowship. I was so focused on them because THEY were A.A. to me. At least, I thought so. But, the more I hung around in the Fellowship, I eventually discovered that the Program (the 12 Steps) is actually what A.A. is. And, I started to place my focus more on the Program, and I focused less on the Fellowship (the people). What I found is that the more I focused on the Steps, the less I paid attention to all the goofy little human quirks associated with the people. Also, by the time I had worked through Step 9, I was seeing everything anew and those people started looking a whole lot better to me. Believe it or not, I started to love them just the way they are. They didn't change -- I changed. Time doesn't heal or fix anything, but the Steps will. So, I believe that as you work the Steps, things will change for you in time. (Does that make sense?)

Okay, here's the next thing: People are people. From my experience with a wide variety of human beings (and from being human myself), anytime we find ourselves involved in any organisation which has a common cause or common purpose, we'll see that there will always be a few folks who look around the room and judge and look upon certain others with a critical eye. When they should be welcoming and friendly to others, they often convey something less than welcoming or friendly. It happens in every organisation, club, church, quilting circle, and workplace. You can't avoid it, but you can ignore it. It happens anywhere you have people gathered together....yes even in Alcoholics Anonymous! Why does it happen? I think it's simply because we human beings are faulty and flawed and imperfect. It's just life-stuff. It's just human-stuff. And it's really not worth losing sleep over. I sure hope you'll keep looking for a sponsor to help you through the Steps, and keep praying as you have been doing. Remember that you were created by a God who loves you as if you were His ONLY child, and He is very pleased with you. He's got your back. Love & blessings, Mike D.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Thanks to all of you who posted to help me. I know this is the best site to come to when I need help on certain things I don't feel comfortable talking about at the meetings with anyone. Really good good advice and I am going to kick it into high gear about finding a sponsor. Hey, does anyone thing it would be a good idea to share in a meeting that I am really wanting desperately to find a sponsor? Or is that ever done? I realize I have been dragging my feet on this and need to work the steps with someone else (been trying to do it alone and have read that is not a good idea). I'm on step 4--do I start over with a sponsor or start from the first step?
Anyway, I feel much better. The woman was at the meeting I went to yesterday and I got choked up three different times. I thought I was "safe" there, as have been every week to this one and never have seen her there. Anyway, I am sick of being this sensitive to the point I cannot focus on the sharers and speakers and maybe that woman was right and I haven't been serious. Thanks again, and yes, Mike, if you read this, I did sleep better last night and really appreciate your posting too. Needed a verbal kick in the pants to get me going, that's all and thanks again!

nezyb · Senior Member

Hi. I have heard people share that they are looking for a sponsor in meetings before. Just be sure to only go with offers from other women if you get any responses. And also be willing to work with someone who may offer, even if you think it might not be the right fit. If you put it out there like that, you need to be willing to accept the help. Something I always say when I chair mtgs is that if you hear someone share who you can relate to but they don't raise their hand, talk to them after the mtg anyway. Some people don't raise their hand but do sponsor. Try no to overthink it too much. Good luck. :)

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Those are very good suggestions nezyb...And Mike D I'm glad your hesitation didn't hold you back...That's an awesome post. I don't see any reason why you couldn't do that BTY...I'd pray on it and give it a try. A few suggestions given to me before moving on with the sponsor I chose...Were to find out if he had a sponsor...If he would take me through the steps as laid out in the Big Book.....Number of years sober...Just for your own knowledge.....And had he had a spritual awakening as a result of those steps. I use "he" because I'm a guy. Sending you prayers for willingness.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Great suggestions, I agree, and I will take notes of those and read over them to be sure I don't forget any. Thanks again!

odat · Senior Member

Hello BTY

The best friends you can have in sobriety, the most trustworthy people, are those who have no ulterior motives and who have the willingness to do the hardest work there is.

Those people will tell you the truth.

First, telling others about this is gossip. Even when I talk to a sponsor about others she knows, I use no names. So that did worsen the situation.

second, I am happy you did not run. at some point we have to sit tight and learn to deal with people like this.

i wasn't there but if I were your sponsor I would ask you more questions to get down further to what happened. if you have had no past dealings with this person at ALL, then I would just accept that she sees things her own way and you are allowed to do what you want with your life and program regardless.

if you asked her for help in the past or gave the impression you wanted her help then that is also your part and her part is not accepting you don't actually want it.

that is one example of "other things" we may not know about here.

as for the gossip you did, we all have done that, most of us many times before we recover. Some never do recover.

speaking of which, one type of person I very wary of is folks who are always talking about AA "Nazis". Those are folks who have usually been around for a while but are not willing to do the real program. They don't want you to either - when it may be the only thing that saves your life. they have their own motives which result in killing alcoholics who MAY have the willingness. They will sstop at nothing to not be alone in their resentments.

follow your heart and keep your side of the street clean And you'll do great.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

Wow...I don't know. I guess when I came in I kept it simple...Stay away from the drama...Stick with the winners...And get busy.....So far....So good.

Jerry F · MIP Old Timer

Sister...try this also. It is from my own experience and I relate to people pleasing. Call the Al-Anon Family Groups hotline number and find out where and when they get together in your area...get the first available meeting and go...sit down and listen and learn. They are about enabling and people pleasing expecially when it includes continually doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. It's okay to be a double. I'm one of those. I've done what you do including the drinking. Consider the suggestion...Most all of the meetings are "open" meetings...we live the steps, traditions and slogans and have AA home groups, mine is AA at the Bay...Saturday and Sunday versions and often we have doubles there too. Keep coming back...this is a solution. (((((hugs))))) smile

Sober Strummer · Senior Member

Unfortunate situation...

AA is a place with lots of dented cans on the shelf.

The people pleasing issue sounds in play. The a hole ego thing in the mean person. But is the group ok pretty much aside from her and her friends?

Sometimes toughening up is our job. Telling someone to knock off childish behavior. It may not be time for that. Only you and your sponsor can talk about that.

The ideas on visiting other groups sound great too.

I think it is important to remember that some are sicker than others. There may be people staying sober on hate. It happens. They can be mean to those not doing it their way. I have been to one alanon group like that. Only for one meeting!

Hang in there. There are people like her outside meetings. AA prepares us for life outside the meetings. Eventually you will have to deal with her kind. So in a way, you are getting some uncomfortable growth in setting boundaries.

I had to remember that I earned my chair in my home group. People that pissed me off required soul searching.

Best wishes in learning whatever it is this challenge is laying before you.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

I am a bit confused about the people pleasing part brought up. Not sure if it means that I am too worried about what other people think about me or if people expect I should please them. I am not quite ready to quit my groups as I go to several and would have to go across town to find others and start fresh. I am just going to these and trying to keep my head up (something which is hard for me anyway because I haven't much self-confidence, but hopefully, that will come, although this didn't help). At last nights meeting at least six people got up and left the meeting and I don't remember this ever happening. It cannot all be about me, but the paranoia I am feeling, and possibly the alcoholism trying to give me reasons to drink again.
I am trying to tell myself that my main focus is to stay sober, continue to go to my meetings every day, and if someone has issues with me, then possibly they need to go back and brush up on one or more of their steps. As for me, I am keeping my eyes and ears open wide for my own sponsor to help me work my own.
Thanks again for you wonderful folks for taking your time to help me. I don't feel like their is anyone at this point I can trust in my own groups so this site is so wonderful for me and I don't feel so all alone and I feel has helped keep me sober.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

It's like you have a side show going on here....Don't worry about all that other nonsense....I can promise you people aren't leaving because of you....Trust me on that one. Sometimes we can be are own worst enemies. Focus on what is being said....The solution. Not everything I hear in meetings is true either.....Thus the saying...Take what you want and leave the rest. But I'll tell you something that does bring us all together....And it's something I haven't been able to find anything wrong with...And that's the Big Book. Are you reading it? Study the Doctors Opinion and the first 103 pages...That's the directions...That's the program...That's the solution..That's what you need to do....And that's the reason it's a good idea to have a sponsor to help you with it.

Real important fact...

The tremendous fact for every one of us is that we have discovered a common solution. We have a way out on which we can absolutely agree, and upon which we can join in brotherly and harmonious action. This is the great news this book carries to those who suffer from alcoholism....BB pg 17

I think it's time for some harmonious action....Pray for willingness...I'll send some prayers myself....If you're willing...The rest will happen.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

See if you can find a few that you'd like. The promises read in meetings are the ninth step promises....While they are great....I was attracted to the tenth step promises...But they are all good....And they will always materialize....If we work for them.

http://www.serenityfound.org/promises.html

-- Edited by Stepchild on Monday 30th of September 2013 08:32:30 PM

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

I feel hurt that you would suggest I have started a "side show" here when all I was doing was coming to this board to get help. I even said that I knew that a lot of it is me and it is not all about me. But thank you for your suggestions as they are appreciated.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

By no means did I suggest that you started anything...Just commenting it sounds like you have one going on around you...I know they are there...I just got back from a meeting that was nothing but a side show...I can't let that get in my head....So I try and share the solution...Carry the message....Not the mess. I also mentioned not to worry about all that nonsense going on...It's not good for you...I look at it like this...I go to what meetings I want....Regardless of who is there...I don't take anything home from it...Unless it helps me...And the reason I am there is to save my life...And maybe help someone else save theirs.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

I am so sorry, stepchild...there I go...oversensitivity is kicked into overload and I assumed wrongly about your comment. I really have to watch out that I don't do that to others as well. I really appreciate your advice and hope that one day I will be able to be like you and leave the nonsense (and it is and I've really made a bigger deal of it than it is, I know) at home and be helpful to others like you are. Again, my apologies and I hope you forgive me for having that reaction when you were trying to help.

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

You have nothing to be sorry for...Don't be so hard on yourself. I think the one thing that really motivated me early on were those promises in the book...There are a lot of them....I wanted them....All I had to do was work for them...I pray you do the same....I like to see people's lives change. It's pretty amazing.

chris · Senior Member

I am lucky to live in an area where there are tons of meetings. I have stopped going to certain ones because of the drama and some of the people who were there. I have learned over the years that some of us are WAY sicker than others, and I stay away. I gotta look out for #1.

betterthanyesterday52 · MIP Old Timer

Well, I thought about not going back to that meeting but I didn't want to stop because in the past my reaction to uncomfortable situations has always always been to leave/quit. After reading these helpful postings as well as reading hours and hours of AA literature, I decided to just keep in mind what I am going there for and to try and stay focused on the guest speaker and the message he/she has, as well as the individual sharers, and to stick with people who have been supportive and welcome newcomers. I haven't noticed if anyone is staring/leaving, etc., because I am too centered on the real reason I am at the AA meetings and not any bs or negative energy. The result has been I am smiling more, not crying and have been happier and leave the meetings feeling better instead of worse. Who knows? Maybe I was actually looking for something or some reason to derail me. I cannot believe I actually thought about quitting AA over this and thank God for people like you and this board to help alcoholics like me. Bless You!

RubyTues · MIP Old Timer

Glad it's going better for you, betterthanyesterday! Stick around!

Stepchild · MIP Old Timer

That is AWESOME BTY....

Pythonpappy · MIP Old Timer

Hey BTY, ... sounds to me like you're better-than-yesterday ... and that's a good thing!!!

justadrunk · MIP Old Timer

Anything that tells you it's okay to quit AA is just the disease trying to kill you.

Glad you're here and alive : )