I don't think you lose the "right" to be angry at some offense. Bill W.'s finessing the point to illustrate that we alkies are probably just better off without it--as an ideal.
But the problem is that anger cannot be avoided. Reality impinges on the ideal. Here's what BW said later:
"Acceptance and faith are capable of producing 100 per cent sobriety. In fact, they usually do; and they must, else we could have no life at all. But the moment we carry these attitudes inoto our emotional problems, we find that only relative results are possible. Nobody can, for example, become completely free from fear, anger, and pride." (Grapevine, March 1962)
It's easy to say we should eliminate anger. And the BB did say it. "If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us." (BB, p66)
The reality is indeed that anger cannot be limited down to zero for humans - including recovering alkies.
It's what one does with the anger that is critical. That's one of the important lessons on the Al-Anon bus, I thinki.
Do bad things with your anger; destructive, physical, anti-social....and the alkie is in deeeeep trouble, primarily because they overdo things so much. But acting rationally, in anger and with ethical and self-preservation principles can be done without harm. Or can be done with less damage than trying to bottle up some real-life anger with a flimsy cork of naive attempted-passivity.
If, in the real world, some terrorists take a bunch of airliners and murder 3 thousand innocent people in a few minutes time, it's OK to be angry. It's natural and appropriate. But what gets done after that anger is, of course, a potentially negative event.
Thanks Iman from bring up this topic. I'm interested in hearing what others think. The main thing is not to drink--no matter what happens. No tragedy is worth drinking over.
-- Edited by Tanin on Sunday 28th of July 2013 07:37:35 PM
The 12 x 12 has some great words on this topic and they are hard to follow for me, but I'm getting there.
Don't we have a right to angry at people who willfully harm us...people who steal from us.....vandalize and cause direct harm intentionally?
NO.
The 12 x 12 says righteous anger is best left to those who are better qualified to handle it. WHAT? Really?
Yes, we cannot live in anger as especially for me. The resentment is the very thing that makes me think...... and drink.
I must always remember to let the water slide off my back and get back in a conscience connection with God, rather than wallow in resentment and retaliate.
But the problem is that anger cannot be avoided. Reality impinges on the ideal. Here's what BW said later:
"Acceptance and faith are capable of producing 100 per cent sobriety. In fact, they usually do; and they must, else we could have no life at all. But the moment we carry these attitudes inoto our emotional problems, we find that only relative results are possible. Nobody can, for example, become completely free from fear, anger, and pride." (Grapevine, March 1962)
It's easy to say we should eliminate anger. And the BB did say it. "If we were to live, we had to be free of anger. The grouch and the brainstorm were not for us." (BB, p66)
The reality is indeed that anger cannot be limited down to zero for humans - including recovering alkies.
A thoughtful, well documented response...but I'm not certain that I agree with Bill on this. In particular, the emboldened section. I'm not suggesting that it is easy, but I do believe that it is possible and it is what I aspire to. Irrational faith trumps rational fear. If our faith is sufficient, perhaps say the size of a mustard seed, then I think that fear could be banished. As for anger, I consider anger a secondary emotion, one that comes from fear. As for pride, it stems from ego and I believe that the concept of ego is a false idea... the idea that we are separate from each other. In fact, and since I've already used one Christian reference, I've not found a place in literature where I could substitute the word 'ego' for the word 'satan' or 'devil' and suffer a loss of comprehension.
I know Pappy will remember this though I'm not sure how old the rest of you are, but back during the Vietnam War, two Buddhist monks self-immolated in protest. I continually use that example for myself to show me how little I know about the limits of controlling the mind. With the mind properly bound, I believe that we can be completely free of all that impinges upon our happiness.
I think both Angell and Pickle have posted excellent thoughts here ... all I can share is how I live my life today ... which of course is to apply and live the principles of AA to every aspect of my life ... from my experience, I cannot live a sober, useful life at all without these principles ... and the principles of AA in no way conflict with my biblical beliefs ... (notice I did NOT say religious beliefs) ...
In the last 2 or 3 years, I have experienced little, if any, anger at anything or anyone ... I've even accepted the sad state of our government ... the extreme stupidity that prevails in our government still bothers me, but I refuse to 'rent space' in my head any longer for something I cannot control ... and the same is with other people ... the 'Serenity Prayer' is still a prayer I must say often, it keeps my mind from going off the deep end ...
And Angell, even though I served in the military during the end of that war, I only vaguely remember the Buddhists ... as you will recall, the 60's and 70's were filled with demonstrations of every possible kind ... people spit and booed us at the airports when we returned from active duty, calling us 'baby killers' and such (thanks, in part, to Jane Fonda) ... a stark contrast to the soldiers returning today whom are all considered 'heros' ... (and I missed out on the era of the 'hippie free love' thingy, dog-gone-it) ... LOL ... ... ... ... ... (just so you know)
Anyway, I do stupid things when I'm angry and I cannot afford this luxury ... so it has no place in my life today ... (or it is very short lived) ... thanks for the topic, good stuff here!!!
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I get angry on occasion, but I don't let it get the best of me. Sometimes I need to use better judgment, that's all. If not, things can spiral out of control rather quickly. That's why I love the saying "quiet heads always prevail". That and "what am I angry about anyway". It seems to calm down any situation.
I know Pappy will remember this though I'm not sure how old the rest of you are, but back during the Vietnam War, two Buddhist monks self-immolated in protest. I continually use that example for myself to show me how little I know about the limits of controlling the mind. With the mind properly bound, I believe that we can be completely free of all that impinges upon our happiness.
I think reference is being made to Thich Quang Duc, the Buddhist monk who in a protest against the discrimination against the Buddhists by the Diem regime in South Vietnam, performed the act of self-immolation.
Horrifying at the time, other self-immolations followed. The Diem regime was overthrown. Am not sure how Duc's example reflects on anger. But it occurs to me that he selected the "change" option of our Serenity Prayer, rather than "accept." An odd and powerful way to accomplish it, certainly.
Damn, ... ... ... that's gotta hurt ... ... ... hellofva way to make a point ... ... ... I gotta say, that's a quicker way to die than by drink'n ... ... ... at least the pain doesn't last long!!!
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
