@stepchild thanks , I will have to get it from the library, its funny sometimes I feel like there is not time in the day to read extra, I do a fair bit of reading as it is, but then I find myself in a mood like I am today and I'm finding the hours for the extra self improvement.
Thought you said you were bored? ... ... ...
"I think its insane how we have such addictive personalities, tonight I found myself bored a Saturday night not alot to do for a guy in the city that isn't around drinking."
That usually means there is available time for reading ... if you are serious about getting better, I recommend the AA Big Book (especially the 1st 164 pages) ASAP ... and just so you know, when I admitted to my sponsor that I had a whole shelf full of 'self help' books ... He said go home and get rid of those ... I asked why? ... He said you're trying to build up the very person you need to get rid of ... Trust me ... the Big Book is all the self help you'll ever need, and then some ...
P.S. You can pick up an AA BB at a meeting, usually 'for cost' ... about 8 or 9 bucks ...
-- Edited by Pythonpappy on Saturday 27th of July 2013 09:17:36 PM
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I think its insane how we have such addictive personalities, tonight I found myself bored a Saturday night not alot to do for a guy in the city that isn't around drinking. I haven't drank for quite a few months now, tonight having the night to myself, the gf is out of town doing some sort of family dinner. For some reason the thought kept passing through my mind to drink something. Alone bored by myself at first the thought was how about a six pack. then I start thinking well a six pack wouldn't be enough I'd probley do 12 then why not get the deal of a 15 pack. Then the thoughts of what i would feel like the next day, the thoughts of having to explain myself to my gf in particular if I she found out I spent the night drinking ( even worse drinking alone) . All these thoughts smartened me up and reminded me why I don't drink anymore at all.
The thing that I was craving was not the drink but the state. I was not craving the drink itself as much as I was craving the state of intoxication. I don't even really like the taste of any alcohol. Which is why I know 6 or 12 wouldn't be enough. I wanted intoxicification at what end? and why so tommrow could come... i dont get it. Tommrow I will be in the same position.
But what I can't wrap my mind around is why we have these thoughts, its so annoying, its not normal for people to think in this fashion but its whats is preoccuping my mind. I am so greatful I am not drinking I really am, I just wish these moments of weakness wouldn't even pass through my mind. The mental energy wasted on drinking is unbelievable (mind you lately the thought doesn't pass through my mind as often as it did). Even after all this time has passed not drinking. The thought of a free night with nothing to do for some reason my first thought naturally gravitates towards the drink.
It's not so much that it's a 'challenge' as much as it is a 'change' in the very way we think ... after completing the 12 steps and applying them to every aspect of our lives, we suddenly find we rarely ever seriously think of drinking at all ... but we have to apply and work the program 'all day long' ... ... ... we must remain 'spiritually fit' in order to be granted the promises ...
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutralitysafe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition. It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of Gods will into all of our activities.
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks-drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.
The Doctors Opinion Big Book.
I repeated it over and over. Working those steps gave me that psychic change he talks about. It works.
One of my problems is I have a hard time with the idea of God and a high power of anykind. I am an Athiest, and not really sure of what I belive in at all.
I have recently been looking into the idea of god and religion, on the reasons is my gf has been putting some pressure on me to explore these thoughts since she is very religous, i'm not sure if this is the one of the reason I also attracted to her.
I just know my body is no place for alcohol and sometimes my brain trys to make me think otherwise. I am thankful for places to go like this forum when I'm having these thoughts and problems. Trying to explain it to people that do not have this problem is frustrating and for people that are normal drinkers they cannot understand why self control goes out the window when the drink is envolved. I am still not sure if alot of people are simply denying it as well.
Ya know Murray? ... I was just thinking about my wife traveling out-of-town a lot and in my drinking days, this was the worst temptation I ever had ... I saw this just like you described above ... I'd go to get a 6-pack, then decide I needed a 12-pack, then said 'screw it' I'll get a case while I'm here ... for some reason, I thought being alone was like a license to get plastered, who would care ??? ...
I always thought I could sober up and be fine before she returned ... and I always tried to cram in enough drinking to be 'satisfied', before she got back ... 99% of the time, when she returned, I was 'passed out' ... I hid a lot of my 'hard stuff' around the house, but I knew she'd find much of it and throw it down the drain ... so I tried to drink as much as I could before I wound up dealing with her ... I used to drink so much that I would run out of booze, then have to sober up 2 or 3 days before I could drive to get more ... I can't tell you how many times I had to detox in order to even walk straight ... Only the Lord knows why I'm still alive ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
But what I can't wrap my mind around is why we have these thoughts, its so annoying, its not normal for people to think in this fashion but its whats is preoccuping my mind. I am so greatful I am not drinking I really am, I just wish these moments of weakness wouldn't even pass through my mind. The mental energy wasted on drinking is unbelievable (mind you lately the thought doesn't pass through my mind as often as it did). Even after all this time has passed not drinking. The thought of a free night with nothing to do for some reason my first thought naturally gravitates towards the drink.
I have recently been looking into the idea of god and religion, on the reasons is my gf has been putting some pressure on me to explore these thoughts since she is very religous, i'm not sure if this is the one of the reason I also attracted to her.
Have you read the Big Book mandm?...Chapter 4 We Agnostics takes a real good look at this. I like the idea that the fundamental idea of God is really found deep down within us. This is from page 55.
Yet we had been seeing another kind of flight, a spiritual liberation from this world, people who rose above their problems. They said God made these things possible, and we only smiled. We had seen spiritual release, but liked to tell ourselves it wasn't true.
Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.
We can only clear the ground a bit. If our testimony helps sweep away prejudice, enables you to think honestly, encourages you to search diligently within yourself, then, if you wish, you can join us on the Broad Highway. With this attitude you cannot fail. The consciousness of your belief is sure to come to you.
This program isn't about religion....It's about spirituality. Something I had none of when I came into it. I just had to have Faith...That millions of alcoholics had turned their lives around...Were living happily without alcohol...Were useful....Rather than useless....As a result of doing the steps. And I went from there. I was willing to believe.
@stepchild thanks , I will have to get it from the library, its funny sometimes I feel like there is not time in the day to read extra, I do a fair bit of reading as it is, but then I find myself in a mood like I am today and I'm finding the hours for the extra self improvement.
@pappy thanks for the encouragement, one of the reasons why I wanted to post my thoughts was to get the views of people that have been down that same road.
@tarin thanks agian, I may check it out, I was thinking its funny I know you as a pickle avtar I'd walk right by you on the street but your words are helpful.
I found that making sure I ask my Higher Power for help with the cravings, and to remove my defect sincerely, I lose the feeling for it. I know. After a year and 1/2 sober, in the last 6 months I had not been working the program and reading up and talking to other AA's, I began to think I'm in charge, which leads to these feelings. I had the same thought but I went ahead and had one glass of wine. AND I stopped that evening at one......tried it again.....again I stopped.....I said to myself "You have this...see, you're ok now".....in 3 weeks I was downing 7-8 in a sitting. You don't want your own head (ego and pride) telling you what to do. My head will fail me in these matters. In all Alcoholic minds this is the slippery slope. It looks like a easy 2 degree slope, but soon you will be headed straight down wondering how the heck it happened.
Give over your problems to your Higher Power. It works for me.
Now if I can just get my head straight with all the other things life throws at me.........
Mandm...this is "newbie" stuff and it will pass with more attention to the program. We don't get it over night and there is lots more coming much of it coming in ways that make it easier to understand. Having thoughts like those are not periods of weakness...they are periods of memory lodged both in the conscious and the subconscious. For me it is my subconscious that gives up the experiences of the past slower than my consciousness. I haven't had a "real" drink in over 34 years and I can tell you that my last memory for drinking was yesterday. Weakness...no. Alcoholism is a compulsion of the mind...I didn't drink or even invite the thought...weakness uhuh. I am resigned to the process and this is a part of it. I had a great elder sponsor who taught me how to do new things "in spite" of my usual conditioning. After reading your assertion that you were athiest I heard my elder sponsor, now past, suggest so why not act as if you are wrong and that there is a HP for you in spite of your belief. He was a tricky man because he often went after my intrenched belief system which I used to excuse so much of my behaviors, thoughts, feelings and spirit with the question..."could you be wrong"? I learned to entertain that question and still do because it allows me to widen my search for sobriety and serenity and acquire more awareness which I believe I now never have enough of. I suggest you not view your self with fixed definition and continue along openmindedly. After all if there is a Higher Power for you that Higher Power is bigger than your athiestic thoughts. I learned in AA to never go into my own mind because it was a dangerous neighborhood and now I believe it.
The only thing I do religiously today is the program...steps and traditions. The last program church I was at was the outside shoreline cabana of AA at the Bay in Hilo Hawaii which I spent in learning and sharing my recovery 20 feet from the Pacific Ocean at its nearest point. There were about 50 or so of us AAers there. We closed with the AA responsibility statement and continue on in sobriety.
Take your time...don't drink anything with alcohol in it because it is the alcohol that does the damage. Keep coming back.
One of my problems is I have a hard time with the idea of God and a high power of anykind. I am an Athiest, and not really sure of what I belive in at all.
You are certainly welcome to self-identify as anything you choose, but if you are "not really sure of what you believe in" then you are probably agnostic. Or not; it makes no difference. We are free to believe in whatever we like or nothing at all. I am an atheist myself and have nevertheless been able to achieve sobriety and serenity. Just wanted to assure you that the path is wide enough to accommodate even those of us who do not believe.
But what I can't wrap my mind around is why we have these thoughts, its so annoying, its not normal for people to think in this fashion but its whats is preoccuping my mind. I am so greatful I am not drinking I really am, I just wish these moments of weakness wouldn't even pass through my mind...
I guess this is our challenge as alcoholics.
mandm, sometimes we have these thoughts. And sometimes they are persistant. Take the case of Dr. Bob Smith, one of AA's founders. He had the same thoughts as you for a long while.
"Unlike most of our crowd, I did not get over my craving for liquor much during the first two and a half years of abstinence. I was almmost always with me. But at no time have I been anywhere near yielding. I used to get terribly upset when I saw my friends drink adn I knew I could not, but I schooled myself to believe that though I once had the same privilege, I had abused it so frightfully that it was withdrawn." (page 181, Alcoholics Anonymous)
So, you have some distinct similarities to Dr. Bob (and others) who did successfully achieve long-lasting sobriety even with the kinds of thoughts you have described. Their stories are manifold. A lot of people in AA always suggest reading only the "first 164" pages of the book. Or even only "the first 103 pages" of the book. But the stories in the Big Book are meant to be read as examples of "precisely how we recovered." Those stories are the program of AA applied in real life.
I suggest you read Dr. Bob's story. It's on page 171.
P.S. If we ever do go to the same meeting, feel free to introduce yourself. I wear glasses.
-- Edited by Tanin on Sunday 28th of July 2013 11:13:27 AM
Since you don't have an AA Big Book, here's a couple passages you might find interesting:
Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself. We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us. We can only clear the ground a bit. If our testimony helps sweep away prejudice, enables you to think honestly, encourages you to search diligently within yourself, then, if you wish, you can join us on the Broad Highway. With this attitude you cannot fail. the consciousness of your belief is sure to come to you. In this book you will read the experience of a man who thought he was an atheist. His story is so interesting that some of it should be told now. His change of heart was dramatic, convincing, and moving.
AND:
But it isn't so difficult. About half our original fellowship were of exactly that type. At first some of us tried to avoid the issue, hoping against hope we were not true alcoholics. But after a while we had to face the fact that we must find a spiritual basis of life-or else. Perhaps it is going to be that way with you. But cheer up, something like half of us thought we were atheists or agnostics. Our experience shows that you need not be disconcerted. If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago. But we found that such codes and philosophies did not save us, no matter how much we tried. We could wish to be moral, we could wish to be philosophically comforted, in fact, we could will these things with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there. Our human resources, as marshalled by the will, were not sufficient; they failed utterly. Lack of power, that was our dilemma. we had to find a power by which we could live, and it had to be a Power greater than ourselves. Obviously. But where and how were we to find this Power?
ADD:
Still you may say: "But I will not have the benefit of contact with you who wrote this book." We cannot be sure. God will determine that, so you must remember that your real reliance is always upon Him. He will show you how to create the fellowship you crave. Our book is meant to be suggestive only. We realize we know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to you and to us. Ask Him in your morning meditation what you can do each day for the man who is still sick. The answers will come, if your own house is in order. But obviously you cannot transmit something you havent got. See to it that your relationship with Him is right, and great events will come to pass for you and countless others. This is the Great Fact for us. Abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him and to your fellows. Clear away the wreckage of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the Fellowship of the Spirit, and you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the Road of Happy Destiny. May God bless you and keep you - until then.
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I too have an addictive personality. I call it the disease of more. Whatever it is, I want more of it...booze, drugs, food, love, fun. Bring it on, and bring lots of it. Since working the steps of AA, my craving for alcohol has been removed but the disease of more lingers on. I have learned through my Higher Power to channel that need into something healthier and saner. I know when I crave that certain "something" now, that what I am truly wanting is that connection with my Higher Power. I want to feel satisfied and I know that nothing of this earth can satisfy me. God can though, love of my fellow man can, serenity can. I still want more, I just want more of the good stuff, more of the stuff that really brings peace and joy to my life. A drink can't do that, another piece of pie can't do it...but God can, and He does. :)
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I think there's an invisible principle of living...if we believe we're guided through every step of our lives, we are. Its a lovely sight, watching it work.
I too have an addictive personality. I call it the disease of more. Whatever it is, I want more of it...booze, drugs, food, love, fun. Bring it on, and bring lots of it. Since working the steps of AA, my craving for alcohol has been removed but the disease of more lingers on. I have learned through my Higher Power to channel that need into something healthier and saner. I know when I crave that certain "something" now, that what I am truly wanting is that connection with my Higher Power. I want to feel satisfied and I know that nothing of this earth can satisfy me. God can though, love of my fellow man can, serenity can. I still want more, I just want more of the good stuff, more of the stuff that really brings peace and joy to my life. A drink can't do that, another piece of pie can't do it...but God can, and He does. :)
Hey guys thanks for all the input it helped me yesterday. I was really happy when I woke up this morning that I didn't drink. I had really great day too which made it even better. After sleeping on it I realized I was having some anxity and uneasyness and it was those emotion that I used to drown out with alcohol that was comming up. I found how to cope with these emotions yesterday through other means so hopefully when these emotions come up agian I will be better able to handle them.
