Love the program that has saved my life, but me and a friend who are both of the generic Christian persuasion were kidding around the other night about the ability to "choose your own conception of God". The online game Gregopolis came to mind. The one that advertises, choose your God, build your kingdom ect ect. Perhaps the ones who have different than a Christian/church style god have an easier time because me and my friend seemed to keep hitting on the word heresy. LOL!!
All kidding aside I understand why it needs to be the way it is. And how we need to reach all who wish to be saved. And everything was going fine until the gentleman who lead us out tonight on the Lords prayer started it by saying "Who's your daddy"!! HELP!!!!!
Forgive them Lord for they know not what they do. LOL!
The second step principle will always be my favorite, and the reasons why are fairly obvious. It connotes a message that anyone, including stubborn alcoholics like myself, can understand. This is what it says: "Humility and an open mind can lead us to faith, and every A.A. meeting is a reassurance that God can restore us to some form of sanity if we rightly relate ourselves to him. Amen...
This program has restored the sanity and lives of millions of people worldwide, in many different faith traditions. So yes, you can choose your own God. That's just a fact.
Now, having said that, I've heard some crazy stuff about higher powers, but everybody has to start somewhere. If somebody is willing to make a start, I'm convinced that God will gradually reveal Himself, according to that particular person's need.
Even so, you find some AA's that are avowed atheists, and maintain their sobriety over many years, so what do I know?
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The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. ---William James
Yes I personally never had a problem with your "own conception" of God as you understood God.(even though I have my own personal faith beliefs)....but I also always understood it to be under the guidelines of being loving and caring(2nd Tradition,3rd Step etc)If a person finds something that WE may consider not loving and caring or how that could be(doorknob,bedpost,evil demon) then so be it, as it is stated when we are willing to believe WE are well on our way....... It is a process(Came to believe) not an event.... It is our 3rd Step where "we make a decision" and the principles of honesty ,open mindedness, willingness,faith ,hope etc really move the process along.... Through my journey of recovery I have seen(in many others) and been apart of many transformations of belief(my own same God since childhood but a complete different relationship) I am never surprised at some of the things I have heard and hear at meetings..Who's your Daddy " is definitely ear perking though ...thanks for the share............ Have a blessed and productive day.....
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
I had to laugh ... ... ... "Whose your Daddy?" ... ... ... in fact, I have heard that one before in our group when one of our members was asked to 'take us out' ...
But I have to agree with Q ... No matter who, what, or when we got here or got us to come here, the program starts early on discussing the need for a 'higher power' ... and I truly think God is willing and patient for those of us who don't know or believe in Him, to give us time to tread the path in His direction for a while before expecting any 'reverence' from us ... I have witnessed sincere changes in those who have come to know God through this program ... for some it takes a few months, and others maybe a few years ... but 'most' come to start recognizing and talking of God as they progress in recovery ... (just like one of our books says)
During this process, I have seen the foul language reduced (especially the g.d. word) from those that stick around ... (the use of curse words, or cussin', is not a sign of 'spiritual progress') ... So, the talk of God and the reverence shown in the rooms becomes less of a joke as time goes on ... then you get a new-comer and the process begins again ...
So even if the person has no concept or belief of God when they come to AA, at least it's got them 'thinking' 'WHAT IF' ... and from there, the journey begins ... I'm thinking God is simply 'standing by' the door that has been opened and waiting for the newcomer to make his/her decision ... Just like 'love', belief in God cannot be forced, else it holds NO value ...
Okay, if I continue, I would only start 'rambling' ... thanks all ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
One of my AA pals calls God "Dude". Dude, help me out here. Dude, that was great, thank you! etc.
I thought it sounded pretty irreverent at first, but on second thought, he's got a walking, talking relationship with his Higher Power, which is the point of this program.
So who am I to judge?
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The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. ---William James
I was actually thinking about this today at a meeting that closes with 'Our Father'. I was thinking, like 2granddaughters, that there are about 30-40 people in this room with varying conceptions of God, or a HP- yet we are all saying this prayer that I learned as a child forced to say my rosary every night. I dunno, I think all the prayers go to the right place, regardless of the differing ideas of the spirit of the universe, or God, or HP.
I think chapter four of the Big Book....We Agnostics...Is one of the finest pieces of spritual writing I've ever seen. I like this part from pgs 54 - 55.
We found, too, that we had been worshippers. What a state of mental goose-flesh that used to bring on! Had we not variously worshipped people, sentiment, things, money, and ourselves? And then, with a better motive, had we not worshipfully beheld the sunset, the sea, or a flower? Who of us had not loved something or somebody? How much did these feelings, these loves, these worships, have to do with pure reason? Little or nothing, we saw at last. Were not these things the tissue out of which our lives were constructed? Did not these feelings, after all, determine the course of our existence? It was impossible to say we had no capacity for faith, or love, or worship. In one form or another we had been living by faith and little else.
Imagine life without faith! Were nothing left but pure reason, it wouldn't be life. But we believed in life - of course we did. We could not prove life in the sense that you can prove a straight line is the shortest distance between two points, yet, there it was. Could we still say the whole thing was nothing but a mass of electrons, created out of nothing, meaning nothing, whirling on to a destiny of nothingness? Of course we couldn't. The electrons themselves seemed more intelligent than that. At least, so the chemist said.
Hence, we saw that reason isn't everything. Neither is reason, as most of us use it, entirely dependable, though it emanate from our best minds. What about people who proved that man could never fly?
Yet we had been seeing another kind of flight, a spiritual liberation from this world, people who rose above their problems. They said God made these things possible, and we only smiled. We had seen spiritual release, but liked to tell ourselves it wasn't true.
Actually we were fooling ourselves, for deep down in every man, woman, and child, is the fundamental idea of God. It may be obscured by calamity, by pomp, by worship of other things, but in some form or other it is there. For faith in a Power greater than ourselves, and miraculous demonstrations of that power in human lives, are facts as old as man himself.
We finally saw that faith in some kind of God was a part of our make-up, just as much as the feeling we have for a friend. Sometimes we had to search fearlessly, but He was there. He was as much a fact as we were. We found the Great Reality deep down within us. In the last analysis it is only there that He may be found. It was so with us.
That's a good one. What a great chapter that is. I'm doing a Big Book workshop with a guy that really knows his stuff and we just finished it last week. Start How It Works this afternoon....I can"t get enough of that book. You have to wonder Who was holding the pen when they put that on paper.
That's a good one. What a great chapter that is. I'm doing a Big Book workshop with a guy that really knows his stuff and we just finished it last week. Start How It Works this afternoon....I can"t get enough of that book. You have to wonder Who was holding the pen when they put that on paper.
I wondered that also in the beginning, but not anymore ... I KNOW God was in control of that pen ... NO human could have simply come up with a program of recovery like this all by themselves ... and I don't care what kind of I.Q. they had ... LOL
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'