I am having trouble with the question: am I an alcoholic? I do know that nobody can diagnose me besides myself - but I am very interested in the feedback of experienced people in/around recovery, so please help.. I would really appreciate it.
First, I do know that I am an addict. I started working the NA program. I abused many drugs but my primary drugs of choice included ephedrine and weed. My rock bottom included divorce, bankruptcy, and a stay in a psychiatric ward. Plus, I missed a lot of work.
Second, while alcohol was not my main drug of choice, it played a part. It served as a back-up plan when I couldnt get my drugs of choice.
Third, I understand from the Big Book of AA that alcoholism is defined as the inability to stop for any length of time; and the craving phenomenon after one takes a drink. This is what is hanging me up. Sometimes I have had times where its been just a few drinks and thats it. Other times when I drink (in more recent years especially), I usually want to go (and do go) searching for other drugs when I may have had no desire to do so beforehand. Could this be another form of the craving phenomenon? If other drugs are not around I could be reaching for more drink. This whole issue of "am I an alcoholic" seems to be clouded by my predisposition and addiction to other drugs of choice.
Finally, just for reference, here are some of my past behaviors with alcohol: There had been times when I drank socially, sometimes it would go too far, other times not. I have snuck drinks behind my wife's back, usually late at night, drank vodka out of the bottle and replaced the missing vodka with water so that it looked like nothing was gone, hid my own stuff in the house (such as vodka or whiskey like wild turkey), usually drank while using other drugs (usually to "get me going"), I have drank so much that I urinated in the house - not in the toilet - not realizing what I was doing, went to bars (usually strip clubs - I am not proud) and drank alone. I know I have obsessed about wanting to drink, especially when I first got clean.
So I continue to wrestle with: Am I an alcoholic or just an addict? and also: Should I be identifying myself with the term alcoholic when at AA meetings?
Again, I know this is my struggle, but it helps to share and your feedback/experience would be a blessing to me.
Thank you so much in advance.
-- Edited by poi77 on Thursday 30th of May 2013 07:00:38 PM
We have a number of members in my home group that identify themselves as alcoholic/addict when sharing ... ... ... from what you shared above, there is no doubt in my mind that your suffer from the same malady as I once did ... No matter how you got to where you are, I too, arrived at the point in my life that I was 'spiritually bankrupt' ... no matter which train you rode in on, you're in the right place ...
This is a place of recovery, miracles do in fact, happen here ... You have one choice to make and only you can make it ... Are you going to go your way of life, or our way of life ??? ... I know you don't WANT to do either one, but that's the choice you must make ...
The twelve steps are simple, but not always easy ... and you have to become 'willing' to do the things we suggest ... We are in the 'life boat' and are throwing you a 'life preserver' ... it's up to you to pick it up and hold on tight ... our program teaches us how to get rid of the old way of 'thinking' and instills in us a new way of thinking ... that's where the 'change' starts ...
Read the BB again, go to 90 meetings in the next 90 days ... look for and choose a good sponsor to help guide you ... so for now, don't drink or use, and go to meetings ... or if you choose the alternative, then you may not have long to be around, period ... our disease is, in fact, fatal ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
There are some differences in the programs and if you are attending Narcotics Anonymous you are aware that the NA program talks of the disease of "addiction" where alcoholism is considered too limited of a term for NA fellowship and members .The program of NA is all inclusive with respect to all mind altering ,mood changing substances.Alcohol is adrug....ThAT program was adapted from A.A. as a basis of the recovery program. A.A believes addiction is just a symptom of the disease and as you are aware even though it has been documented as a disease(alcoholism/addiction) many still debate the DISEASE MODEL no matter how scientifically proven it is. theory(beating a dead horse subject for other times) Here are questions from the website on IS A.A. FOR YOU...
Only you can decide whether you want to give A.A.a try whether you think it can help you.
We who are in A.A. came because we finally gave up trying to control our drinking. We still hated to admit that we could never drink safely. Then we heard from other A.A. members that we were sick. (We thought so for years!) We found out that many people suffered from the same feelings of guilt and loneliness and hopelessness that we did. We found out that we had these feelings because we had the disease of alcoholism. We decided to try and face up to what alcohol had done to us. Here are some of the questions we tried to answer honestly. If we answered YES to four or more questions, we were in deep trouble with our drinking. See how you do. Remember, there is no disgrace in facing up to the fact that you have a problem.
Answer YES or NO to the following questions.
1 - Have you ever decided to stop drinking for a week or so, but only lasted for a couple of days? Most of us in A.A. made all kinds of promises to ourselves and to our families. We could not keep them. Then we came to A.A. A.A. said: "Just try not to drink today." (If you do not drink today, you cannot get drunk today.)
Yes No
2 - Do you wish people would mind their own business about your drinking-- stop telling you what to do? In A.A. we do not tell anyone to do anything. We just talk about our own drinking, the trouble we got into, and how we stopped. We will be glad to help you, if you want us to.
Yes No
3 - Have you ever switched from one kind of drink to another in the hope that this would keep you from getting drunk? We tried all kinds of ways. We made our drinks weak. Or just drank beer. Or we did not drink cocktails. Or only drank on weekends. You name it, we tried it. But if we drank anything with alcohol in it, we usually got drunk eventually.
Yes No
4 - Have you had to have an eye-opener upon awakening during the past year? Do you need a drink to get started, or to stop shaking? This is a pretty sure sign that you are not drinking "socially."
Yes No
5 - Do you envy people who can drink without getting into trouble? At one time or another, most of us have wondered why we were not like most people, who really can take it or leave it.
Yes No
6 - Have you had problems connected with drinking during the past year? Be honest! Doctors say that if you have a problem with alcohol and keep on drinking, it will get worse -- never better. Eventually, you will die, or end up in an institution for the rest of your life. The only hope is to stop drinking.
Yes No
7 - Has your drinking caused trouble at home? Before we came into A.A., most of us said that it was the people or problems at home that made us drink. We could not see that our drinking just made everything worse. It never solved problems anywhere or anytime.
Yes No
8 - Do you ever try to get "extra" drinks at a party because you do not get enough? Most of us used to have a "few" before we started out if we thought it was going to be that kind of party. And if drinks were not served fast enough, we would go some place else to get more.
Yes No
9 - Do you tell yourself you can stop drinking any time you want to, even though you keep getting drunk when you don't mean to? Many of us kidded ourselves into thinking that we drank because we wanted to. After we came into A.A., we found out that once we started to drink, we couldn't stop.
Yes No
10 - Have you missed days of work or school because of drinking? Many of us admit now that we "called in sick" lots of times when the truth was that we were hung-over or on a drunk.
Yes No
11 - Do you have "blackouts"? A "blackout" is when we have been drinking hours or days which we cannot remember. When we came to A.A., we found out that this is a pretty sure sign of alcoholic drinking.
Yes No
12 - Have you ever felt that your life would be better if you did not drink? Many of us started to drink because drinking made life seem better, at least for a while. By the time we got into A.A., we felt trapped. We were drinking to live and living to drink. We were sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Yes No
Did you answer YES four or more times? If so, you are probably in trouble with alcohol. Why do we say this? Because thousands of people in A.A. have said so for many years. They found out the truth about themselves the hard way. But again, only you can decide whether you think A.A. is for you. Try to keep an open mind on the subject. If the answer is YES, we will be glad to show you how we stopped drinking ourselves. Just call. A.A. does not promise to solve your life's problems. But we can show you how we are learning to live without drinking "one day at a time." We stay away from that "first drink." If there is no first one, there cannot be a tenth one. And when we got rid of alcohol, we found that life became much more manageable.
There are many roads to recovery including substitute substances(methadone /suboxone,antabuse etc)but WE here at MIP subscribe to the methods of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Only you can decide for yourself if Step 1 "your life is unmanageable and when you pick up a drink you are powerless to stop..(you have given some descriptions of your using habits.You can also read the Big Book on the breakdown of different kinds of drimkers beginning with CHAPTER 2 THERE IS A SOLUTION...WE believe we suffer from a mental physical and spiritual illness and we find our solution by putting down the substance and getting into what we call the solution"THE STEPS.worked with a sponsor and the application in all areas of our lives...
As far as identification,that is also up to you..There are 2 major differences in the STEPS as approached FROM both programs 3rd tradition(5th tradition at a meeting) and Step 12 (AA is more drug specific here where as NA is more inclusive of the addict) I personally do not believe in identifying as an ANDA (addict and alcoholic) but that is my own thing I feel that may shift the particular focus of each separate program but I have been to so many meetings (BOTH AA AND NA where there is ANDA identification MORE SO TODAY THAN 20 YEARS AGO.)Some meetings will address that issue(hopefully privately afterward) others may not ...The times they are a changing they say!!...Im from the old school thought pattern but this is not about me...I have actually identified as a firm believer in our 3rd tradition(ONLY REQUIREMENT FOR MEMBERSHIP IS desire TO STOP USING/DRINKING).I respect the house im in(my stuff) You have answered a lot of your own questions.Do not let names or Identification or am I this or that stop your recovery WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR OWN RECOVERIES AND DO WHATEVER IT TAKES TO REMAIN FREE FROM ACTIVE ADDICTION ...Just For Today "dont use"(drink or drug or use any mind altering mood changing substances and all roads to recovery ,a day at a time, is open to you..Thanks for sharing.In support and prayer WE DO THIS TOGETHER....seek that sponsor to guide you through(You do the work)the STEPS,give back to the best of your ability ,find that POWER greater than you(and a guideline though not stated is IT only be loving and caring AND GREATER THAN YOU )remember our 2nd Step says 'we came to believe'THAT' not "IN' a Power COULD restore us to sanity....Hope to hear more from you...Stay blessed and More is always revealed.........'
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Thanks for your post Mike ... you spent a lot of time here, very informative ... I pray others will read and consider the content here ... it may save a life!!!
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Thanks much for the responses so far. I answered 4 questions above with a "yes" as far as alcohol is concerned. Would love any additional feedback from others. Thank you again!
Most of us find that being an alcoholic isn't a bad thing. Knowing what I know now about AA - even if I questioned to this day if I were alcoholic, it wouldn't matter... I would keep going back just because it's awesome and fun and life changing for the better. There is no reason not to go really. In my personal opinion, anyone who has ever ingested one drop of alcohol and now has the desire to 'stop drinking' is going to be better off for being a part of AA. You always have something to do - someone to meet - somebody to talk to about REAL thing instead of the weather - a place to be quiet - a place to get a cup of coffee - a guide to living a stellar fulfilling life - a place to be accepted - a place to make mistakes - a place to learn - a place to grow up - a good show for a dollar - a place to be of service to others and feel good about yourself for being helpful -a place to grow confidence in yourself - a place to learn about the 12 steps - a place to figure out what you think about a HP and God and all that - a place to find self worth - a place to make close friends - a place to make enemies that you can still learn to love - a place to watch people - a place to laugh and cry openly and from the gut - a place to get good movie recommendations.... hhmmmmmm... I'm trying to think of some reasons not to go...
Bottom line is - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, even if you discover you're not an alcoholic. It can't hurt you! Have you ever done anything else just because? Why not this? Why is THIS so hard? Maybe it's cuz you're alcoholic. We alcoholics have a little voice in our heads that tell us we're not alcoholics... and that's our disease in a nutshell. The disease creates all this drama and what not. It will tell us anything - to keep us from walking through that door... because it knows that if you do - chances are it's dead. It wants to live.
I try to remember that I - Natasha - am separate from my disease which is every single thing that comes into my brain that would tell me it's okay for me to not do recovery stuff.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Welcome to the MIP forum. I will start by saying that I did plenty of drugs but alcohol was my drug of choice or most available and I got sober in the rooms of AA.
The AA and NA program( I believe), emphasize that we are spiritually sick and morally bankrupt, our recovery in the steps/program is based on the growth and maintenance of a spiritual experience.
The type of booze or drugs we did has nothing to do with our recovery program, addicts can't drink and drunks can't use mind altering recreational drugs and grow and maintain a spiritual experience. In my experience on of the worst things we can do in recovery focus on the uniqueness of our habits, this has nothing to do our recovery solution. We need to grips with the fact that we are just garden variety addict/alkies or whatever.
Early in my recovery I lost the urge to drink but I started entertaining the idea smoking a little pot knowing that I didn't really love it but it would put me out of my head for awhile. Thankful I stopped to ask myself "where am I heading with this kind of crap thinking?" What would this do for my spirituality and program? I would just be doing the same old thing, running away from life and not using any of the tools I was learning.
If I'm at a AA meeting I think it is best just to call oursleves "Alcoholic", If we are at a NA meeting call yourself "addict". Giving ourselves different titles that others can only serve to distract us from our primary purpose and common welfare....that is selfish IMHO.
Hope this can help,
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I have heard people calling themselves "alcoholic/addict" that describe the exact same pattern of drinking/drug use. Your post echoes what I hear regularly in AA from these members. They say that it was not that alcohol was the identifiable problem 100 percent of the time, but when there were problems alcohol was often part of the picture. I also hear them say they would drink and then "all bets were off" or it was "off to the races." I have heard that the amount of time between 1 drink and then having a crack pipe in hand (or joint or whatever) gets shorter and shorter. So, yes - I would say alcohol is something wrapped up in your addictive process in all likelihood. Your post echoes SO MUCH of what I hear from the alcoholic/addicts in meetings I go to. You are not alone for sure.
For me, alcohol was 90 percent of my problems (prescription psych drugs being over used was the other 10 percent)...so I answered 10 out of those 12 questions MikeF posted with a yes. Pretty much I just identify as a sloppy fall down drunk. I can empathize with the confusion over not knowing what the real "label" or "term" is for you....BUT, in the end, we are the same because I can't take addictive drugs safely either since I will replace alcohol with them.... So, we are all in the same boat...which is doing our best to stay totally sober from both drugs and alcohol (but taking meds if needed as prescribed....etc...we don't play doctor).
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
Thank you all so much for your feedbackit does helpI invite and welcome it. One more question (and this was hit on already...but...) for me, when I am at AA meetings (at NA meetings I identify myself as an addict) should I identify myself as an addict/alcoholic or just as an alcoholic? I know this is sort of not a big deal but I want to respect the group and be honest and true about myself at the same time. Thoughts?
im tom, addicted alcoholic. only attend AA and thats how i intro myself. if anyone has a problem with it, thats their problem and if they do, then bill w, dr bob, and quite a few other stories need to be ripped out of their BB.
i am responsible when anyone anywhere reaches out out for help i want the hand of AA to always be there and for that i am responsible.
the only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking.
Thank you all so much for your feedbackit does helpI invite and welcome it. One more question (and this was hit on already...but...) for me, when I am at AA meetings (at NA meetings I identify myself as an addict) should I identify myself as an addict/alcoholic or just as an alcoholic? I know this is sort of not a big deal but I want to respect the group and be honest and true about myself at the same time. Thoughts?
Alcoholic only in AA and Addict only in NA.
conform and get on with the solution, all of the other "what to call yourself stuff" is only a distraction to real recovery.
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
I have a bunch of people in my group who identify themselves as addicts/alcoholics. Who cares what you call yourself? It really makes no difference to me, just follow the program and get sober.
Thank you all so much for your feedbackit does helpI invite and welcome it. One more question (and this was hit on already...but...) for me, when I am at AA meetings (at NA meetings I identify myself as an addict) should I identify myself as an addict/alcoholic or just as an alcoholic? I know this is sort of not a big deal but I want to respect the group and be honest and true about myself at the same time. Thoughts?
Alcoholic only in AA and Addict only in NA.
conform and get on with the solution, all of the other "what to call yourself stuff" is only a distraction to real recovery.
yes, conform...to a fellowship that has no rules, but a whole crapload of egos.
where does it say acloholic only in AA? and addict only in NA?
Thank you all so much for your feedbackit does helpI invite and welcome it. One more question (and this was hit on already...but...) for me, when I am at AA meetings (at NA meetings I identify myself as an addict) should I identify myself as an addict/alcoholic or just as an alcoholic? I know this is sort of not a big deal but I want to respect the group and be honest and true about myself at the same time. Thoughts?
Alcoholic only in AA and Addict only in NA.
conform and get on with the solution, all of the other "what to call yourself stuff" is only a distraction to real recovery.
yes, conform...to a fellowship that has no rules, but a whole crapload of egos.
where does it say acloholic only in AA? and addict only in NA?
I personally don't care what anyone calls themseleves but some people might (which is wrong in my experience also). Point is, all of this fuss can only divert us from our primary purpose and possibly disrubt unity. You are correct, there are no hard rules on how we should describe ourselves.
Poi asked us to share our experience on best practices in describing ourselves at the meetings in question. The whole point of this is leaving our egos at the door, thus avoiding the need to call ourseleves something "different" or "special".
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
The question about what to do with the "other" addicted was asked long before I got into the program and so I understand that those addicted to other than alcohol were looking for relief and relife. The conclusion was that the program was not to be denied any seekers and low and behold...here I am with a large group of family members (majority alcoholic/addict) yelling to the ceiling "you are NOT an alcoholic"!! at me. Why because when I drank with them I "never went down". "You can drink and drink and drink and not drop" they further yell and then what did they or I know about abnormal metabolism and chemical tolerance and neurologic anesthesia. Did I crave? You don't have to crave when it is normal and acceptable to drink anytime and place you are at and are fully supplied at all times. I always drank because I could and because it was there...always. Was it a problem for me?...no. Was it a problem for others sometimes I guess and I didn't care ever...it was normal therefore not a problem for me. Leave me alone...therefore no problem. I drank alone often to escape the insanity of drunks whom I was always around...family, friends, associates. I wasn't alcoholic...I couldn't pronounce the word much less spell it until I came into recovery. I never considered anyone else alcoholic and was raised to duck and suffer remorse and eminent hell if I ever called another person, especially another family member a drunk...that was not respectful or tolerated. The first time I heard "alcoholic" spoken as we usually do now was in the introduction to the Al-Anon Family Groups...I marry the women I drink with and the majority of my relationships were cultured in booze. Not a problem. I first took the alcoholism assessment test 9 years after I had stopped drinking in which time I had attended college and learned things about alcoholism and chemical addiction most of my family and friends and associates and past relationships didn't know. I learned about me...I found out why my skin had a sickly yellowish/greenish hue to it which caused me to stop saying that I "had jaunice" and "my mother had an affair with an oriential before I was born and I was the product of that"...I actually was torn between the two explanations until I took the test and turned it in to the adult inpatient section of the large rehab I was working in as a therapist for alcoholics and addicts. Explanation of it all...simple...God works in weird and mysterious ways in God's own time and plan and therefore the clinical suggestion returned to me..."Who ever belongs to this assessment (I did it anonymously) needs to be in inpatient therapy immediately or the next time they drink they die". Oh I need to add that the exact assessment mentioned that I had been in toxic shock overdose on booze three times in my drinking history. Had no idea I was overdosing and was. Also need to mention that my yellowish/greenish colored skin returned to a natural tan five years after I stopped drinking. Was I cross addicted to other stuff? Does sex, overworking, smoking and eating count? I was married to and hung out with cross addicted people yet I liked booze because I was under the illusions that I could control it...manage it...come out different than others...standing up most of the time. Actually any evidence of management had nothing to do which what I did but how I was physically built and still the toxic shocks...not blackouts...total systemic failure without warning. I hang with relapsers in AA because "the next time I drink I die". Am I alcoholic...yes I have (still) a mental compulsion and a physical allergy; I turn yellowish/green and my system shuts off without my permission. Last few times I had to deal with alcoholic beverages I had to intentionally do what I've been taught in AA to not drink unintentionally...I had to overcome the voice in my head and experiences that says, "You are NOT an alcoholic...you are cured now...you can have what you're holding and not going down...who the hell cares what others might think". I have never lost the compulsion to drink only the resulting color and the physical/neurological damage. The body heals...that is what it does when I stop poisoning it...that is what it was created to do and does inspite of me as long as I support healing. I have accepted I am alcoholic. I have a life threatening disease which is progressive and will yield to being fatal if it is not arrested. I don't question it...This afternoon while buying bar-b-que briquettes and diet Pepsi at the local market the checkout gal told me that "it's nice going home and bar-b-queing and haveing a beer. I replied "I've had enough" (taught me by another recoverying alcoholic) and like the taste of Pepsi more now. She got a "I don't know you" smile on her face and wished me good day. My last drink was somewhere around the end of 78; start of 79. I've never lost the compulsion. Lost the alcoholic/addict wife (got clean and sober in AA) and the yellowish/greenish color. Got a program that works and a HP that wants me to "sit, stay, listen, learn...practice, practice, practice". It's a simple program for complicated people...don't be one of them. Keep coming back
If I was cool... I'd be an alcoholic addict... but I was too chicken sh%% for everything else. No matter... maybe you could just say "I'm me and I was addicted.". Agree with rob... no need to be unique or special anymore so "hello... Natasha alcoholic" works for my intro today.
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
 I guess im thinking im not an alcoholic. Not a real one, as they say. Even tho the 3rd tradition would allow me to be welcome, I wouldnt really feel like I belonged so ill just stay away even tho I love AA. The story of my life is that I just dont fit in. Anywhere. Never have and never will. You are beautiful people thanks for helping me. I shall continue wandering alone.
Poi, from what I've read of your posts, YOU'RE AN ALCOHOLIC! Welcome to the club, brother. Quit feeling sorry for yourself and join the party of sober folk. It's much better on this side.
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The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. ---William James
Whether you're an addict or an alcoholic, no matter ... ... ... being alone with yourself is a choice ... many of us did just that, and we did not get better, in fact we got worse ... left without friends or family is not what God intended ... and left to our own 'old way of thinking', kept us locked in the elevator that continued to go 'down' ... you can get off that elevator now or go on to the bitter end, the bottom ... ... ... if you desire Peace, Serenity, and Hope for the future, then AA or NA or both can help ... all you need is but ask ...
Once you change the 'way you think', then you will 'FIT IN' ... ... ... We are people who would not normally mix ... but we are family now, and you can be part of our family if you so choose ... you need to try and change that attitude that you will never 'fit in' ... ... ... that kind of attitude just may get you dead ... ... ...
Let your barriers down and join us ... most of us don't 'bite' ...
Love ya and God Bless, Pappy
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
The Big Book has some very clear advice on this matter...
We do not like to pronounce any individual as alcoholic, but you can quickly diagnose yourself. Step over to the nearest barroom and try some controlled drinking. Try to drink and stop abruptly. Try it more than once. It will not take long for you to decide, if you are honest with yourself about it. It may be worth a bad case of jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
-- Edited by Q on Tuesday 25th of June 2013 12:50:21 PM
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The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. ---William James
Hmmm. Thank you. Maybe, if I have the disease, it has doing the talking in my head over the past few days.....maybe I do qualify as a real alcoholic and the disease has been causing this disruption...?? I suppose that could be...??
The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. ---William James
Actually I don't think Im being very smart about this. I think my mind is playing tricks on me. Talking with you all is actually helping. Thank you for being patient with me.
No problem. It took me a long time to get to Step 1. I had to completely destroy my life first.
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The sway of alcohol over mankind is unquestionably due to its power to stimulate the mystical faculties of human nature, usually crushed to earth by the cold facts and dry criticisms of the sober hour. ---William James
Go to a few more AA meetings poi77 and listen for the similarities you have with us rather than the differences!!! ... When we 1st questioned whether or not we were alcoholic, our disease tried to convince us we weren't!!!
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
