I've been reading a lot of "feeling uncomfortable with my group" posts lately, and I know exactly how the authors feel. I am in a group that I have absolutely nothing in common with. I'm poor and struggling, a person who didn't have much to lose but lost everything, and can't find any direction toward a better life, and the fact that all this happened AFTER I decided to get sober really messed me up for a long time. Everyone else? Business owners, professionals, etc., doing just fine, talking about how "blessed" they are with what god gave them BEFORE they went sober. This disparity is what made me relapse a little more than 2 years ago. The last meeting I went to, the chairperson's topic was how he was worried about the taxes on the inheritance he was about to receive. THAT DID IT!!! I dropped my sponsor, my faith, and now I was about to drop A.A.. Then it hit me. This isn't the group I need, I need to be around other hard-luck cases with substantial sobriety. Fortunately, the sprawling metropolis that is Houston, Tx. has many groups, and there's BOUND to be a couple of meetings that will fit that bill. The problem is I can't move out of the area I'm in, and if one of the members sees me around w/o going to meetings, they might think I relapsed, so I'm just going to tell them straight up what's going on. I really like these people , believe it or not, but if I stay with them I know I will relapse again. Is this a good idea? What's the best way to tell them? Thanx!-AlcoHater
-- Edited by AlcoHater on Tuesday 16th of April 2013 09:17:17 PM
AH, AAers change meetings all the time. It's normal.
You can take advantage of living in a big city. There are meetings out there that you will assuredly like more than your current home group. Your job is to find them.
The main thing is to stay connected to the program. If you drift off . . ., well. . .you'll drift off.
Around here most people who go to multiple meetings each week hit 2 or 3 different places. I don't completely understand the "home group". I am on the phone lists for both places in town and do stuff for and with both groups. I don't feel a need to declare one a home group. Am I missing something? Is it necessary?
That's a good question, ChristineG. It's a term I picked up from others in the program. I think it means a group one attends more than others. But where I live, all the meetings have this similar atmosphere, so I'm going to have to find meetings SEVERAL miles away! (Houston is HUGE! 4th largest city in the U.S..)
I dropped my sponsor, my faith, and now I was about to drop A.A.. Then it hit me. This isn't the group I need,
-- Edited by AlcoHater on Tuesday 16th of April 2013 09:17:17 PM
Hi AH,
I can understand what you are saying. I always found it preferable to go to a mix of different meetings with those of varying economic situations.
It is wonderful to witness the true humilty and gratitude for things many of us consider the basics of exsistance, it really helps me keep things in perspective.
If you want to change groups, just tell the seceratary to take you off the list. Do you have a service position? If so, you might want to ask if you can help find someone to fill it.
Given the statement above, it does appear on the surface that you are easy to find fault with the things on the outside. Just remember AA is a inside job, there will always be things we can be critical of on the outside. Love and tolerance comes as a result of working the 12 steps and changing ourselves.
You say, "This isn't the group I need", please consider that maybe this is the group that needs you.
__________________
Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Great topic AH. I can relate. I'm going through a process of rediscovering some new meetings, and it's great. As others have said, just ask to be taken off the list. For me, that can be difficult, but in and of itself it's part of growth.
Some people thrive on doing the same group for years. I don't.
I too can understand sorting about folks from your old group thinking that you've relapsed. In my experience though, not too many people will think that, and if they do, it tends to say more about their sobriety than yours.
Most important for me is to stay close to the program and stay away from that first drink.
I've been reading a lot of "feeling uncomfortable with my group" posts lately, and I know exactly how the authors feel. I am in a group that I have absolutely nothing in common with. I'm poor and struggling, a person who didn't have much to lose but lost everything, and can't find any direction toward a better life, and the fact that all this happened AFTER I decided to get sober really messed me up for a long time. Everyone else? Business owners, professionals, etc., doing just fine, talking about how "blessed" they are with what god gave them BEFORE they went sober. This disparity is what made me relapse a little more than 2 years ago. The last meeting I went to, the chairperson's topic was how he was worried about the taxes on the inheritance he was about to receive. THAT DID IT!!! I dropped my sponsor, my faith, and now I was about to drop A.A.. Then it hit me. This isn't the group I need, I need to be around other hard-luck cases with substantial sobriety. Fortunately, the sprawling metropolis that is Houston, Tx. has many groups, and there's BOUND to be a couple of meetings that will fit that bill. The problem is I can't move out of the area I'm in, and if one of the members sees me around w/o going to meetings, they might think I relapsed, so I'm just going to tell them straight up what's going on. I really like these people , believe it or not, but if I stay with them I know I will relapse again. Is this a good idea? What's the best way to tell them? Thanx!-AlcoHater
-- Edited by AlcoHater on Tuesday 16th of April 2013 09:17:17 PM
Rob shared:
Just remember AA is a inside job, there will always be things we can be critical of on the outside. Love and tolerance comes as a result of working the 12 steps and changing ourselves.
You say, "This isn't the group I need", please consider that maybe this is the group that needs you.
Also remember the 'Promises', pg 83-84 ... ... ... 'economic insecurity will leave us' ... ... ... not overnight, just be patient and work your program to stay sober ... everything will only get worse if we drink ...
You sound a lot like me about 10 years ago, I went to 2 groups primarily ... one in a 'run-down' part of town that was near the 'drug dealers' and such and this meeting comprised the lowest of the low on the economic scale ... but I identified with them more readily than the meeting across the county in an upscale area ... the meeting in the upscale area, the members would frequently discuss their 'stocks 'n bonds' and the current state of the 'stock market' which I could not even comprehend ... ... ... they were doctors, lawyers, pilots, etc. ...
I went back out to do 'research' many times ... but the last time, I settled down and worked on the program and me ... as it turns out, the meeting in the upscale area is now my 'home group', ... if for no other reason, they didn't shub their noses at me, they really did make me feel welcome and got me to participate in service work ... PLUS, I found that there were, and are, others with my same economic situation or background ... this group welcomed all, and didn't judge us based on our 'income' ...
The plus side to this, is there are opportunities that WILL come along for 'better employment' through these folks ... and if we have a few years sober, they will offer us opprtunities to advance our own economic situation ... but the trust must be earned ...
The fact is this, together we can work miracles ... A 'home group' is where we go to that group's meetings so that we have strength in numbers ... this affords us to get to know the members and develop the 'love' needed to make us 'family' ...
After saying all that, I have seen groups with poor leadership that are hard to breack down the 'click' barriers and for them, I simply go where I feel welcome AND needed ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hey AH A+ post! Lots to think about. Lots of feelings and thoughts to sort out. I love it : ) You're unique AH - but then again, we are all unique like everybody else.
First of all you're talking about being down and out after sobriety. That sucks. I was feeling crappy yesterday because I backed into a car in my driveway that I didn't know was there. You know what the problem was? I was using my back up camera's on my car. WHAT? Yup. I was so mad at those camera's for not being more inclusive of my surroundings that I could spit. But then again, I could have turned my head the old fashioned way ; ) It took me about 2 minutes to realize I was complaining like a selfish brat with privileged problems.
I am still shocked and amazed at how much "stuff" I have in my life - because I've drank myself into the gutter with not even a shampoo bottle to wash the sh** off a couple of different times in my life. I've been so down and out I didn't even have the internet or much more than a sack of clothes to my name - dirty laundered clothes - no money to go to the laundry mat. Trying to score drinks off guys in bars, and find a place to sleep at night : ( : ( : (
The cool thing is, I know I can live with almost nothing, and it also makes me know that I don't NEED so much stuff like I think I do. It's just stuff. It absolutely does not create happiness. If I had to chose either living like I do now with no wants or needs other than the ones I fabricate in my head when I look over at the jones' place - but no REAL needs..... OR.... go back to being a drunk - in less time than you could say 'misery' I would walk away from my stuff and never look back.
Everything I've truly needed has always remarkably been provided. I was have the gift of knowing what it's like to be a survivor, and because of that, I'm capable of not judging - not gloating - not being greedy - and having compassion for those less fortunate. And I also know that could be me again. Life changes. Things happen. Our roles may reverse at any time, and I'm ready and I know it's not going to kill me - not unless I go back to drinking.
Sometimes I actually fantasize about going back to that simple life. Little to maintain, little to clean, little to inventory, little to really care about - other than the fact that at the time I thought I wanted much more stuff. Eh.... stuff is just stuff. Go love somebody who needs loving. That's a far better feeling than stuff could ever give you. Tell someone you accept them for who they are, that you think they're wonderful, ask them to tell you their story, and really listen and encourage. See how you feel about your lack of stuff then. See how that other person feels about their stuff in that moment. I'm guessing you'll forget all about your stuff entirely - at least for a time.
And the even cooler thing is... sometimes those people you cared for, turn out to be 'leads', 'allies', part of your network and before you know it, things change, tables turn, and you'll be better off for having been through what you're going through.
Just don't drink 'AT' anybody today - cuz you're only going to be self sabotaging.
I don't even actually know if you're male, female, tall, short, well dressed, sloppy or whatever... but I love ya AH : ) Be good to yourself - and thanks for the reminder that I need to do the same and take my own suggestions hehe
Here's yesterday's reading from Today's Gift:
Having realistic expectations.
Sometimes we expect much too much of people and things. We will never be happy if we expect our doctor to work instant cures or if we blame our teacher for what we failed to learn. We need to examine what's realistic to expect of others and what we are responsible for ourselves. It's the same with the program: We cannot judge its effectiveness by whether we are happy all the time.
The program will be perfect only when we are perfect. We must let go of our childish all-or-nothing attitude and become more realistic. After all, when were we ever happy all the time?
Do I expect too much?
Higher Power, when I am unhappy with the program, help me be honest with myself about where the problem lies.
__________________
Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
AH - Don't buy your own sob story. Of course I can empathize and understand your need and desire to go to meetings with more grounded people, but keep owning your own side and leave your script unwritten. You have not lost everything. You have a keen mind, kind heart, and you are sober. You have much more than many. It could be that meetings with folks who are suffering worse will help you with gratitude. I get that...I do. I would recommend going ot beginner's meetings if you really want to keep it green. BUT - even then you will see some newcomer drive up in a Bentley or something every now and then and if you are not spiritually grounded, you will let what they have or talk about on the outside make you think you are damaged goods on the inside and outside when you really are not.
What is really stopping you from going to med school, being a lawyer, doctor, starting an illustrious career, having a supermodel girlfriend? Not that these things are all that important but you could have them if you really wanted. If you wanted, you could do anything with the aid of your program and your HP. Please don't label yourself as a "Have not" because it will get in the way of you taking positive risks and truly believing you DESERVE the best. I am just speaking with my own ESH, but part of why I stayed poor, drove junker cars, and had crappy relationships was because I truly thought I deserved that and I truly thought I couldn't do better.
I can get "stuff" if I work for it. That's easy. Much harder to stay grateful to what I have and optimistic about my ability to achieve what I want in the future.
P.S. - it was at about 2 years sober that I started going after stuff I wanted. I have a lot more now materially which is good but like those folks in your "home group" it doesn't make me spiritually fit or happy all the time. When you are doing what you are meant to do and are in alignment with your HP's will for you, you will not give 2 craps about other people's status and stuff because your purpose will be primary. You are a winner not a loser. Now start believing it and start living like one!! In the meanwhile, if you are truly surrounded by people in your meetings that you feel are pretentious, you can always go to other meetings and that's not a bad thing at all. Perhaps you need to be around other people who are rebuilding like you. Other people's status and things never made you relapse. More likely it was what it always is with us....Self pity and feeling "less than" others.
P.P.S. - You are not hearing consistent themes of "not belonging" from other members of the board because all of us have real problems not belonging or fitting in. All of us have problems BELIEVING that we don't fit in and don't belong. That is the problem, the nature of our disease, and not the reality.
__________________
Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
To Rob84-Yeah, that group needs me alright...so they can feel even better about themselves! (Drum roll, cymbal crash! Laugh! It's funny!)To All Who ressponded- And really,thanx for kind words, but I guess no one has been faced with the dilemna I have (Having to tell your home group that they are a danger to your sobriety, that is.) So I guess I'll have to do it nicely, quietly, and politely. Wish me luck, because nice, quiet, and polite, I AIN'T!
-- Edited by AlcoHater on Wednesday 17th of April 2013 05:42:00 PM
Yes, I can very much identify with what you are feeling. For me, in the area in which I live there are many different meetings with folks from all backgrounds. When I first became sober, I went to all different meetings in very different neighborhoods. I found some filled with people that were way more well off economically than myself, and others filled with the homeless of those just out of prison. I felt I could identify with everyone. As the months went by, I began to feel less comfortable- feeling as though I couldn't fit with the rough types speaking about sleeping under bridges and prison time. I felt like they were hostile towards me. The well off professionals I felt were looking down on me- a waitress with a college education never used. So, I found reasons to not feel as though I fit in. These ones are too snobby, these ones too 'anti-women', those ones too down and out. It recently occurred to me that not only was I focusing on the wrong things to identify with, but also that we are ALL in the same boat in that room. I didn't want to fit in because that meant I had to open up,reach out, and allow others to get to know me. I've always kept people at arms length, and I still do that but I'm getting better about it. I've gone back and forth with my home group for 11 months now- its a love/ hate relationship. For me, these feelings are more an indication of my own struggles with my discomfort with others. A mirror of my own distrust of other people. Just my take- I do mix it up quite a bit with meetings from all over, but I like the variety. My daily meeting is in one neighborhood, my Tuesday nights in another, Thursday in another... It helps me to see people that I don't 'fit' with come together regardless. Now I'm working on making myself comfortable. Sometimes it is 'them', but more often than not its me believing my own B.S.
justadrunk, your last post smacked me upside the head so hard, I got dizzy! I had to sit there and think to myself"did I make an ass of myself, AGAIN? " Well, I thought about it, but yeah, I'm still gonna go through with it because I absolutely forgot to mention another key ingredient that's also a "turn-off", the fact that many newcomers who aren't so fancy-pantsy hear all of the "thank god, I'm rich" horsesh*t" that it drives them away, leaving me to wonder if these poor souls ever found another group or if they just said "screw it." I WON'T bring that up at my "farewell address", unless, of course, someone hacks me off! BTW-This farewell address will go down on 4-30-13, the birthday meeting, so forgive the delay in any follow-up, but I did, I had to get this off my chest! As always, THANX,EVERYONE!
-- Edited by AlcoHater on Wednesday 17th of April 2013 07:24:22 PM
Hey AH, I have switched home groups. I didn't make an announcement or anything. Only a couple people even mentioned anything to me when they saw me around, and I just said that the meeting didn't work for me anymore. What they thought of that was none of my business, and what they think of me is none of my business. No one asked if it was a conflict in my schedule or I just didn't like the meeting or if I'd relapsed or anything. They took the answer for what it was, so I guess I was lucky. I didn't feel like I had to answer to anyone anyway. I did feel like I was more important to people than I was though - but that is pretty typical newly sober alcoholic thinking I guess. It's the one down fall of being so doted over when you're new I suppose.... we think we're always going to stay that important. The good news is, when people don't pay much attention to you, it means they're aren't that worried about you anymore cuz you're living a good program. We need to tell ourselves this, cause people stop telling us. At some point we need to just feel it, and do this thing even when no ones looking, give ourselves a little spiritual pat on the back or boost or smile or whatever, and stop looking for validation. We intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us - and that's affirmation enough that things are okay.
I'm sure if you are trying to prove something to them, like they are snobby brats or whatever - then you'll only come up short. In reality, they'll need to hit their own bottom over their behavior. When it hurts too much, they'll change it - but what's really going to hurt is how they feel inside. The more you come after them, the more they'll pump themselves up if that's the path they're on. At least today I know that I'm not on my way to a bottom in that regard, and I'm not going to wake up like 10 yrs sober and be like 'holy crap' I've been living a lousy program because I'm just keeping my eyes on my own paper as best I can. I'm not trying to stick it to anyone, or hand out lessons for people... not today. And if you don't try and stick anything to them, you'll be on your way to less 10th step work - less 4th step inventory and all that jazz that now goes along with being responsible for our undertones. So I would get to a good spiritual place about this whole thing before I say a word. At least I would attempt that anyway. I might start by wishing them everything in their program that I wish for myself for a while.... then see what happens and wing it when it seems right.
__________________
Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Hey AH, ... ... ... you obviously haven't worked the program ... for if you had, you'd be in the midst of seeing the promises coming true for you ... I never tire of reading the ones on pg. 83 & 84 :
If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change.Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves. Are these extravagant promises? We think not. They are being fulfilled among us sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly. They will always materialize if we work for them.
And we have ceased fighting anything or anyone-even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have returned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutralitysafe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition. It is easy to let up on the spiritual program of action and rest on our laurels. We are headed for trouble if we do, for alcohol is a subtle foe. We are not cured of alcoholism. What we really have is a daily reprieve contingent on the maintenance of our spiritual condition. Every day is a day when we must carry the vision of Gods will into all of our activities. How can I best serve Thee-Thy will (not mine) be done. These are thoughts which must go with us constantly. We can exercise our will power along this line all we wish. It is the proper use of the will.
Sorry Bro, it sounds to me you need to try and get your head into the game here ... you sound as though you're taking to much of this stuff personally ... try looking for the positive things rather than the negative ... there are some great posts here already ... take some time and re-read them, please ... your life may depend on it ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
You will be most successful with alcoholics if you do not exhibit any passion for crusade or reform. Never talk down to an alcoholic from any moral or spiritual hilltop; simply lay out the kit of spiritual tools for his inspection. Show him how they worked with you. Offer him friendship and fellowship...
Auugh! You people can sure make me feel stupid sometimes, you know that?! O.K. I'll tone down the rhetoric (Good Idea! Thanks!) Maybe you're right, I'll just fade away as I search out other groups! It's just that things are so crazy that I can't make sense of things. And then there's the fact that I NEVER make sense! But one thing you'd best believe, NOTHING BEATS THIS WEBSITE when it comes to sobriety, no matter how chaotic it is, and you can take that to the bank!!!
Love ya AH, ... try to let go and let something bigger than you take over ... you will accomplish nothing more than a lot of hurt feelings at that 4-30 meeting if you follow through with what you have been talking about ... this will only increase the number of amends you may need to make in the future ... take a break from all the pent up anger, that will only make a shitty situation worse ... give yourself a break for once and treat yourself a little nicer ...
And by all means, go to a different group ... at least for a while ... ... ... just let it go ...
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I agree AH... This website rocks- you always get great and varied feedback. I know how you feel, I've definetly been there and wanted to express my discontent with my group. Talking with other friends in the program I got myself all fired up with reasons why I was right to feel as I did. I happen to be a person who enjoys a good 'F U' every now and again haha. For me- and I'm really only speaking for myself here- the best 'F U' was to refuse to feel intimidated- I took on a service position in the group. I realized I was finding fault in an effort to feel an outsider. On the other hand, I tried to force myself to feel welcomed at another daily meeting for about 8 months before I realized that it simply wasn't the best fit. I found another daily meeting that I love. I simply stopped going to that meeting, never said a word. When I do see guys from that group around, I just give a 'hey'. They may think that I've relapsed, but I need to learn to not care what others think. It's what I think, and what's healthy for me and my sobriety that counts.
Well I've been in a meeting where the main share told us how he made and lost sixteen million pounds in drink and was worried that he was only worth four mil now.
The next guy to speak said he was so happy to have recieved a new pair of used trainers from a charity as he could walk to his meetings without getting wet feet.
gratitude shone from no 2. Worry and fear from number 1.
It's a matter only of scale.
After the meeting it was number two telling number one that maybe he could change his perspective and get some gratitude for what he has as well as what he's lost.
Point is number two was grateful for the improvement in his situation and was concerned about number ones emotional health but could measuure each against their own levels.
The lesson I learnt was just because someone has great wealth doesn't make them free of the same fears I have. Just because someone is materially poor doesn't make them a victim.
We allhave something to bring to the table.we dont need to measure ourselves against each other. And no one and no thing can MAKE me lift the first drink. Only I can do that .[I'll blame others later but no one ever has and never will force the first one down my throat]
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It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you got. BB
A lot of good posts in this tread that got me thinking. Certainly AH and others should search to find a group that you feel comfortable with and helps you to stay in the solution.
For those who have been around AA awhile it is no shock when people in their first few years of recovery change home-groups. There are hundreds of reasons and I don't think anyone would take offense (if so their feelings are none of your business). Hopefully you will go back to see old friends pick up chips etc.
My perspective these days is that I have been a member at my group for the 13 yrs sice I moved to GA and I sponsor 5 people who are also members of the group and few others who need to know where they can find me. I really don't have much choice in the matter. If things are not right within the group, I have the influence and need to be part of the solution and try to set an example.
We are people from all walks of life and different situations, I learned at some point not to compare my insides with other peoples outsides, everyone has their story. We where all new in recovery at one point in time, God and the 12 steps of AA has a way of healing scars of the past so one might think they where never there. People don't come into AA because their homes/relationships, business, careers and bank accounts are in good condition, I have never seen it happen.
God made fit that I see the guy facing prison time for things done in a blackout, those from the street, the woman who lost her kids and those who had found recovery and where getting their lives back on track. If everyone I met in AA was still on skid row I think I would have run for the hills, I needed some hope also.
Thanks to you all in AA, God and the 12 steps, I have had a great life in recovery. You taught me a design for living and progam I take with me everywhere. I have a nice home, career and family, friends, relationships but I'm not my stuff or my job etc., I'm still the guy who walked into AA 28 years ago who made $9,000 dollars his first year in recovery working full time with a college degree, couldn't afford to live on my own and had court and lawyer bills forever. I still just try to stay grateful and pay you all back a little time.
Thanks for being here at MIP,
__________________
Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Well I've been in a meeting where the main share told us how he made and lost sixteen million pounds in drink and was worried that he was only worth four mil now. The next guy to speak said he was so happy to have recieved a new pair of used trainers from a charity as he could walk to his meetings without getting wet feet. gratitude shone from no 2. Worry and fear from number 1. It's a matter only of scale. After the meeting it was number two telling number one that maybe he could change his perspective and get some gratitude for what he has as well as what he's lost. Point is number two was grateful for the improvement in his situation and was concerned about number ones emotional health but could measuure each against their own levels. The lesson I learnt was just because someone has great wealth doesn't make them free of the same fears I have. Just because someone is materially poor doesn't make them a victim. We all have something to bring to the table.we dont need to measure ourselves against each other. And no one and no thing can MAKE me lift the first drink. Only I can do that .[I'll blame others later but no one ever has and never will force the first one down my throat]
What a great post BB ... ... ... Loved it!!!
__________________
'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
