I have ttended meetings in the past. I never got anything out of it, other than a sense of living in the past and a lot of people gloryfying their drunkalogs.
i do not beleive in any higher power, and i felt that a high percentage of peope who were in the meetings were under the influence of some drug, alcohol etc...
And the repeated reference to god is unbearable for me.
Baltazar, some good advice that I heard at the beginning was to look for the similarities, not the differences. Instead of focusing on the god stuff or how your experiences weren't like that person's drunkalog, think about how the way you feel is similar to the way everyone else in the room feels, and what they did to overcome it.
I have ttended meetings in the past. I never got anything out of it, other than a sense of living in the past and a lot of people gloryfying their drunkalogs.
i do not beleive in any higher power, and i felt that a high percentage of peope who were in the meetings were under the influence of some drug, alcohol etc...
And the repeated reference to god is unbearable for me.
am i missing something?
Welcome to the discussion group, B.
I too have heard at meetings some glorifying of drunkalogs at meetings. But not too much.
I too have seen at meetings some folks under the influence. But not too many.
I roo have heard at meetings a lot of God references. But not too much.
Of tremendous importance to a newcomer is the culture of each meeting. Some meeting groups are too "God talking." Some groups are too much into drunkalogs.
Maybe try to find a different meeting to go to. Perhaps you can find an AA meeting for agnostics/athiests. There are many of these sprinkled in at various places throughout the country.
If you are an alcoholic, and drinking is causing you problems, you gotta do something to deal wit it.
When I walked in to an AA meeting 6 days ago....I didnt care if they were dancing on the tables....and yelling Hail Marys...
It was either get there...and ask for help...or die...
Today I dont judge them....
They all came from..where I came from...and they believe what they wish to believe..to help them get better..
I take what I need...Am glad Im not alone...and carry on hopefully for another day..
We are all in the same boat...in one big ocean...
It cannot be better said for me because this is how it worked for me and how I work it. Instead of trying "your" program take a stab at working "the" program. Keep coming back.
Yeah, "God" talk used to bother me too until I needed AA bad enough to not care. It also sunk in that 1. I didn't have to even believe in a traditional "God" in AA, and 2. If I wound up believing in God and feeling better and being able to stay sober...so be it. I was not gonna cling to atheism at the cost of my serenity and sobriety. I have hardly ever seen drunk people at meetings. I do see mentally ill folks from time to time. Whatever...doesn't bother me. I go for me. I know what the message of AA is and can identify with a very religious christian, a buddhist, and/or an Athiest...When we talk about the steps and working them into our lives, we are all talking the same language.
So yes....you are missing something. Basically everything AA has to offer. If you are determined to find excuses to not surrender to the program, then it will be a struggle. I was so desperate I did not care if I emerged a cult sounding fundamentalist if it could help me stop drinking. I figured that would be an improvement over being miserable and drunk. That was not what happened. When I see fundamentalists in meetings now, I don't get angry or want to scream "outside issue! Keep it to God as you understand him! Don't say Jesus!!" I really don't care. I look at what their faith is doing for them and I identify with that. I want to model how their faith works in their life not what they actually believe in. There is a big difference but that is why I can go to AA and benefit from everyone's shares. Even a totally insane person just reminds me that I am lucky to be as well off as I am.
I can't make AA work for you and it only works when you surrender to it pretty thoroughly. It doesn't hurt when you still have reservations but it doesn't work as well as it is designed. As much as you can be open to a radical shift of your psyche and spirit...this could work. Just let go and if you wind up believing in God....well there are worse things and if you don't, well you don't have to have "God" as your HP anyhow. Embrace the journey.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
There are many roads ro recovery and you didn't say whether you were alcoholic or not and only you know that. Meetings where the message of recovery is not shared can become tedious.I have moved to and from many different meetings until I found the meeting that serves our groups primary purpose,to carry the message of recovery to the still sick and suffering.You probably wouldn't show up here if you weren't curious about your siutation.It is also very important to remember that 'GOD' is of your own choosing and the guidelines are simple, it is only a Power , loving and caring and at least greater than your illness(if that is your situation? Sometimes its the group,sometimes its spiritual principles,sometimes its the evidence of seeing others who had once been suffering and have found a new way,Good Orderly Direction but is definitely not us..............It is not locked in and as the work of the program becomes a daily journey for us the belief turns into a process not an event.WE speak of the HOW of the program,Honesty,openmindedness and willingness and an indifference or intolerence to these basic spiritual principles hold us back from moving forward in recovery.Its hard to say if you are missing something because you have not stated that you have a problem and WE do not care how much you drank(drink)who your associates are or were,what your past is but only what your problem is and how WE can help!Our program begins with an emotional and physical acceptance of utter defeat as far as alcohol is concerned,the only Step WE can do 100% ,each time we choose not to pick up. If you find yourself unable to take that first one without getting twisted always,the obsession to drink and the compulsion even if you know where it brings you and your life has become unmamageable,that is the obvious outward unmanageabiltity the kind that can be seen by others or showing up in deriliction,jails institutions etc or thE inner unmanageability,the unhealthy or untrue belief systems about ourselves,the world we live in and people in our lives.The sense of emotional volatility is a screaming example.Only you know where you are,or if your ready to find a new way to live free from active addiction(if that is your situation)There were many times early I would roll my eyes and think ,, OH no not sharing about his dog getting skinny again is he??? but though the years I learned tolerance and that we all have our own process of recovery and are responsible for that..Usually when the pain outweighs the pleasure we make a decision to find a new way or go on to the same jails ,instituions,deriliction or death.There is so much more to recovery then just putting down the substance.I n our program we learn that our healing begins by freeing ourselves from drinlking alcohol.WE then learn how to live our lives a day at a time,staying stopped and changing our attitudes and behaviors through the application of spiritual principles applied in all areas of our lives. The light is kept on here,there are meetings all over the World and only you can decide what you want to do...Hope to hear more from you,always in support and prayer,,,you are not unique in your feelings,WE learn to identify with our illness and not compare with others,,WE seek a simple honest message of recovery portrayed by spiritual principles and identified in the lives of ourselves and our peers.Some are sicker than others and time free of active addiction doesnt equal recovery...Hope to hear more from ya....I wish you peace and serentiy.
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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. Yes i am an alcoholic, with 3 years abstinence. I do not attend meetinhs, mainly because i think it tends to keep people locked in the past. It also makes me think about alcohol when i have attended meerings, which i rarely do anymore, so good luck to you all and whatever keeps you sober. I am mot judging people attending meetimgs, but i wll neverr be able to accept a higher power and that seems to be essential to aa folks.
addiction for me is chemical as well as emotional. I see people who would make excellent alcholics, even if they dont drink. Consuming, food, information via tv, internet, relationships, etc... the addict seems to find it impossible to just be.
i kept drinking and stopping and on and on. There was no moment of spiritual clarity that hit me, just a realization that i was upsetting the people who loved me.
God rays didn't shine down on me either. But it was a moment of clarity more than I'd had before. I stopped for 4 months on my own once but couldn't stay stopped.
I guess it's kind of like going on a diet in that everyone will tell you diets don't work unless you make a lifestyle change in terms of adopting a whole new eating regimen and exercise practices. AA functions the same way for me, it's a new lifestyle that is at odds with me going back to drinking. I needed that to get any lengthy sobriety time. Prior to that, I was always falling off the wagon cuz the change was not deep enough - Call it a spiritual change/awakening or a psychic shift....whichever, but that is what I needed and that is what AA has given me. It has not turned me into a super religious person though I am pretty dedicated to AA an its message because I feel like it worked when nothing else did (and that's not just for drinking but it worked for me to help fix my whole screwy life/self).
And yes, there are many folks that have addictive tendencies and can benefit from (insert addictive behavior) anonymous. This is why there are now so many other 12 step groups out there. It's a general model for living which is pretty decent if taken at the level of it's principles. The principles are good to live by if you can study them and apply them to your life without being distracted by wording you don't like or people that have a take on it that you don't agree with. It's how YOU apply it to you.
Keep us updated Baltazar - of course I'd want you to give AA your best and most earnest effort, but there are other avenues if it just doesn't appeal to you. There is SMART recovery - Celebrate recovery...a few other programs....One thing is for sure though and that is that if you do nothing or talk yourself out of doing something about it, the problem will get worse.
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Keep coming back. It works if you work it. So work it. You're worth it!
I have been sober since 1989, and it was definetely with the help of AA. I think the part you might be missing is the "as you understand Him" part. See, we don't require you believe anything, we don't try to sell or bulldose you with our God, or Higher Power. When I got here, I had a hard time with the whole God concept being a part of my recovery process. It, in fact, made me feel even more hopeless.
So, I just adopted that if this group of drunks, who collectively had many double digits of sobreity could get and stay sober, I might have a chance too. Then I heard a man speak, and he said, he didn't believe in God, and still questions it, (Still questions it and he's our speaker??) He went on to say that he believed in positive and negative energy that could effect the world, if not the whole universe, and he elected to make the positive energy in the world his Higher Power. He became willing to recieve from it and to try on a daily basis to dispense it to others. To lean into the positive influences, and stay away from the negative influences, and that he still does that on a daily basis. He says that his prayers are just words of hope, encouragement and affirmation that he fells contributes to the positive engery that is already in place, but now he is a contributor to it. He made a point of saying he felt that if someone throws Love into the universe, in thought, word and deed, the world would feel its addition and the world tends to respond with what is being put into it.. by each person, to each person.
He has 48 years sobriety, and is the most happy, gentle, humble person you'd ever meet.
I adopted a lot of what he spoke of, and utilized "it" as a form of Higher Power, and allowed myself to be open minded, willing and honest.
I also had to refrain from being so judgemental of everyone and everything.. and simply learn to celebrate another person freedom from active alcoholism, no matter what they determined or decided to use as their own Higher Power.
Lastly, in 23 years I have literally seen less than 20 people enter the rooms who were drunk or using at that moment in time. And trust, I have gone to many meetings that have literally hundreds of people in them. (In Houston TX it was not uncommon to go to a meeting and 2-3 hundred people show up for it in a gym or caffertia. Today I go to meeting where 40-60 people show up. Not to say others couldn't have slipped their drinking or using by me. But no, its not the norm. No, its not the majority. And no, it really doesn't matter. What matters is that I show up sober and drug free and try to help the next sick and suffering alcoholic to the best of my ability.
We share what it use to be like (and all the war wounds associated with that), what happened, (what brought us to a place of surrender and seeking help) and what its like now. (the joys, happiness, contentment and peace of living this way). Unfortunately, some people never stay sober long enough to go through that whole process, instead all they know is what it use to be like, what it use to be like and what it use to be like. I submit that it is my greatest hope that one day they will have that moment of clarity and realize it was not an alcoholics self will that bestowed upon them the desire to get sober or made it possible, and they will enter into the world of happy, joyous and free, and can share about it one day.
Um... doesn't it depend on the meeting? There's not a hard-fast rule for who can chair a meeting, it DOES depend on the group conscience.
That said, if it were me, I'd give this meeting the quick heave-ho. I CAN'T STAND the meetings that are all "thanks but no thanks." So freakin' elitist. If it's a Big Book Step Study Meeting, that's one thing because they do have hard-fast rules that you either follow or don't. But if it's just a regular meeting that happens to be Step-themed... they can take their sanctimony and go jump in a lake.
I can only IMAGINE what the people who speak up in that meeting must sound like when they get started. Like the Beginners meetings that attract the people with double digit sobriety and bitch about how their kitchen contractor showed up late to hang the cabinets when there's people in the room who are still sweating at night and can't walk past a liquor store on the way to the sober house without convulsions. If you think they are judging you, move on. Wayyyyyy too many meetings to let one get you down.
s_lukin wrote:
Give me a break.
You come on to an AA message board, blatantly say you think the people in the meetings are lying about being sober, but you're not trolling.
And someone else came to this AA message board, accusing certain AA members of being "elitist" and engaging in unacceptable "sanctimony." Further, that person described the negativity of other AA members ("with double digit sobriety") who "bitch" about trivial subjects in meetings.
I wonder who said that stuff?
Just because someone says something negative about AA or its members, doesn't mean that they're "trolling." Does it?
AA does not object to criticism. AA is not afraid of negative comments or assessments. AA makes no attempt to censor unflattering opinions.
AA learned a long time ago that it didn't need to fear its critics. Bill W. wrote about that a few times, including in the Grapevine.
s_lukin wrote:
I happen to be one of those who believes there's a zillion ways to get sober, but only one way to stay sober, and that's AA.
I am an AA member. It's what I chose to get and stay sober. It's been working for me. I recommended it heartily.
But there's more than one way to stay sober, too. Pinkchip mentioned SMART Recovery above. There are others, both secular (Lifering, SOS, SR, Woman for Sobriety, etc.) and religious (Celebrate Recovery).
It's 2012, not 1939.
In any case, AA never has claimed it had a monopoly on treating/helping alcoholics get/stay sober. It's in the book.
-- Edited by Tanin on Thursday 28th of March 2013 08:19:43 PM
I have ttended meetings in the past. I never got anything out of it, other than a sense of living in the past and a lot of people gloryfying their drunkalogs.
i do not beleive in any higher power, and i felt that a high percentage of peope who were in the meetings were under the influence of some drug, alcohol etc...
And the repeated reference to god is unbearable for me.
am i missing something?
Congratulations. Now you can go out & do some more research & maybe not troll around on an AA message board when you don't support the program.
I have encountered the things you describe in various meetings. It took me a while to realize that some meetings were simply not a good fit for me. I kept going and trying as many different meetings that I could until I found the ones that worked for me. I also learned a lot from the not so great experiences at meetings by trying my best to keep an open mind. I think that's one of the best things about AA- that everyone is welcome regardless of where they are on the road to recovery.
Hi & welcome, Baltazar. As others have said, AA is not the only way to get and stay sober, but for us on this forum, it is the way that has worked. In my own personal experience, when I first saw and heard all the references to God , I thought, I'm screwed, this is not going to work for me. Not because I didn't necessarily believe in something greater than myself out there, but because I thought that what ever it might be, it didn't believe in me. Over the course of the past two years, my attitude and outlook has changed. I have learned to take what I need and leave the rest at meetings, and I try to mix it up so as to keep me thinking and learning and growing. This forum has been an important part of my recovery. You are as welcome here as the next guy. If the board moderators have issues or concerns about posts, they deal with it. Have a fabulous day. Peace.
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I asked God for all things that I may enjoy life. He gave me life so that I may enjoy all things.
When I went to my first AA meeting I thought the exact same thing. When asked how it went, my reply was "I was doing great until I got there, and then it just made me think of drinking!!!". So I didn't go back for 10 years and in the meantime, did have a number of times when I was sober for up to a year or more, but always eventually 'forgot' how bad it could get and went back to drinking, thinking it would be different this time. Never was.
In reality, I was thinking about drinking, not because of the meeting, but because I was an alcoholic. A number of things made me think of drinking such as beer commercials or billboards, seeing other people drink, certain bars etc. I used the 'it made me think of drinking' bit, as an excuse to not go to meetings, because deep down, I didn't want AA to work for me. I wasn't done yet. Simple really, I just wasn't at my bottom, and I wasn't one of 'those people' yet.
After I achieved a sufficient bottom, things sounded a lot different when I walked into the room. It was like I had new ears, a new attitude, and a different more open and willing brain. Just what I needed to hear the message. People didn't look like old weirdo's anymore (well not all lol) and the things they were saying sounded radically different... however, the message has been the same since the 30's.
If you're not at your bottom yet, nothing I can say will sound right to you, and you'll be able to fluff anything off as just b.s. outta some weirdo's mouth just like I did before I wasn't ready to hear it. Good news is, when you are ready - we'll be here with the light on, open arms and we will not pass judgement on you no matter what you've done or how far down the scale you have gone. Just remember that much.
Best wishes -
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
You come on to an AA message board, blatantly say you think the people in the meetings are lying about being sober, but you're not trolling.
So you don't believe in a higher power. That's wonderful. I wish I could believe that there was no other force in the universe that made the world turn or the seasons change or even the grass grow. It all just happens and nature doesn't exist.
As far as glorifying any drunkalogs, most speaker meetings I've found do talk a bit about the Experience Strength and Hope, pretty much the basis of the entire program, but they do not dwell on how awesome it was to be drunk. If most AAs felt that way, they'd still be out doing research.
We also don't live in the past. What the promises say is that "we will not REGRET the past nor wish to SHUT THE DOOR ON IT." That's, you know, so we don't forget about how bad it was and how good it is now.
I happen to be one of those who believes there's a zillion ways to get sober, but only one way to stay sober, and that's AA. If you're looking for a message board that talks about the failure rate of AA and how it's a cult, they are out there, and a simple Google search will help you find it. In the mean time, good luck with being a dry drunk. I hear it's hell on earth.
Real alcoholic or hard drinker? AA is not on a recruiting drive, we don't chase drunks. The book gives good descriptions of types of drinker and draws a very clear distinction for the real alcoholic, quoted below.
"Now these are commonplace observations on drinkers which we hear all the time. Back of them is a world of ignorance and misunderstanding. We see that these expressions refer to people whose reactions are very different from ours.
Moderate drinkers have little trouble in giving up liquor entirely if they have good reason for it. They can take it or leave it alone.
Then we have a certain type of hard drinker. He may have the habit badly enough to gradually impair him physically and mentally. It may cause him to die a few years before his time. If a sufficiently strong reason - ill health, falling in love, change of environment, or the warning of a doctor - becomes operative, this man can also stop or moderate, although he may find it difficult and troublesome and may even need medical attention.
But what about the real alcoholic? He may start off as a moderate drinker; he may or may not become a continuous hard drinker; but at some stage of his drinking career he begins to lose all control of his liquor consumption, once he starts to drink.
Here is the fellow who has been puzzling you, especially in his lack of control. He does absurd, incredible, tragic things while drinking. He is a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde."
"If you are as seriously alcoholic as we were, we believe there is no middle-of-the-road solution. We were in a position where life was becoming impossible, and if we had passed into the region from which there is no return through human aid, we had but two alternatives: One was to go on to the bitter end, blotting out the consciousness of our intolerable situation as best we could; and the other, to accept spiritual help. This we did because we honestly wanted to, and were willing to make the effort."
There may be many ways to sober up the hard drinker, but even medical experts in the field here say that for the 'real" alcoholic described above, spiritual help is about the only thing that can help. Funnily enough, their opinion today is very similar to that of Jung and Silkworth back in the '30s.
You come on to an AA message board, blatantly say you think the people in the meetings are lying about being sober, but you're not trolling.
And someone else came to this AA message board, accusing certain AA members of being "elitist" and engaging in unacceptable "sanctimony." Further, that person described the negativity of other AA members ("with double digit sobriety") who "bitch" about trivial subjects in meetings.
I wonder who said that stuff?
Just because someone says something negative about AA or its members, doesn't mean that they're "trolling." Does it?
AA does not object to criticism. AA is not afraid of negative comments or assessments. AA makes no attempt to censor unflattering opinions.
AA learned a long time ago that it didn't need to fear its critics. Bill W. wrote about that a few times, including in the Grapevine.
s_lukin wrote:
I happen to be one of those who believes there's a zillion ways to get sober, but only one way to stay sober, and that's AA.
I am an AA member. It's what I chose to get and stay sober. It's been working for me. I recommended it heartily.
But there's more than one way to stay sober, too. Pinkchip mentioned SMART Recovery above. There are others, both secular (Lifering, SOS, SR, Woman for Sobriety, etc.) and religious (Celebrate Recovery).
It's 2012, not 1939.
In any case, AA never has claimed it had a monopoly on treating/helping alcoholics get/stay sober. It's in the book.
-- Edited by Tanin on Monday 25th of March 2013 02:34:29 PM
Yes, thank you Tanin. It would be good if we didn't try to run people away at every opportunity. I think AA can take a little criticism here and there.
Yeah. I didn't say AA members were sanctimonious, I said people in my family were. Although feel free to read into what I write. When you're done with that you can go back onto reddit and flame over there.
And yes, it's a total pain in my a$$ when people with double digit sobriety preach about stupid things at beginners meetings. Sue me.
Coming on to an AA message board and telling people they are lying about being sober in meetings is cowardly and therefore (IMO) trolling. It's not something anyone would say to the populace at an AA meeting, so if someone hides behind a keyboard and calls us all a bunch of liars then I reserve the right to call Troll. Just as you reserve the right to read what you want into what I write. It's the beauty of the internet.
cowardly, dry drunk, hell, troll ( i actually had to look that up via google, i thought it was something that lived under a bridge) strong words!
i do not feel like a dry drunk. I am very calm inside and open to other people's opinions. I would never however critisize an individual who is recoving be it by AA or any other path. but making a general observation is permitted, i feel In an open society.
i think humility is key and something that is in your DNA, not something you get from throwing a buck in a basket.
