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Post Info TOPIC: Crucial Question


MIP Old Timer

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Crucial Question
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Just an "I don't know what the hay is out there" worked for me.

Not knowing - is believing IMO



-- Edited by justadrunk on Friday 1st of March 2013 08:43:46 AM

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Thanks for everything.  Peace and Love on your journey.  



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Can I just use gratitude for a day of life and not being drunk as a higher power? Thanx-AlcoHater



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Are you attending meetings regularly?

You can use whatever seems to fit the bill in the beginning.

My H.P. has changed several times over the years and I suspect will continue to change as I continue in recovery.

The most important thing in my opinion is to be open minded and keep looking for God.

All the best.

Bob R

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Close friend of Bill W. since 1989

 



MIP Old Timer

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The essence of "...a Power greater than ourselves..." and the subsequent "...God, as we understood Him...", "Admitted to God...", "...ready to have God...", "Humbly asked Him...", and "...conscious contact with God, as we understood Him..." is to convey,  with no room for misunderstanding, that the A.A. program of 12 Steps is rooted in the belief and reliance upon the Christian anthropomorphic God. Many of us try every which way from Sunday to get around that fact, but it is a fact, not an opinion.

The history of A.A.  makes crystal clear that the recovery/recovered transformation is the result of a conversion experience of a spiritual nature. The reason "...as we understood Him." (note the presence of the capitalized Him) was inserted was explicitly to make room for those who did not cotton to the idea of God "straight up". That has tended to work out OK---it gives people enough wiggle-room to enter and remain in the fellowship even if not real sure about the God-thing, or even if overtly rejecting it. "Whatever works" becomes the message. 

Harry Tiebout, A.A. supporter and psychiatrist , in the '50s, built a bridge from the Christian roots of A.A. (alcoholism as spiritual deficit) to emerging knowledge of alcoholism as a medical condition with physical, mental, emotional, spiritual and behavioral deficits. His work --in one aspect-- enabled atheists, agnostics, rationalists etc. to view the "God thing" from a secular angle, "...the deflation of ego at depth." He theorized that putting alocholism into remission and keeping it there is highly dependant upon a different type of conversion--that of changing the Self (the Ego as God-like, ego being the curse of every alcoholic) to self, or "Not-God", as Kurtz put it. 

So, as many of us have discovered, as long as we have at least some awareness and acknowledgment that we are not the center of the universe and cannot control our drinking, and have the capacity for some humility, some honesty, and the ability to accept some help--and give as well--there is hope for personal recovery. 

http://www.silkworth.net/tiebout/tiebout_papers.html


 



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Willingness is the key.


MIP Old Timer

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James , in Crocodile Dundee , Linda asks Hoges , if he believed in god .

Hoges says "yeah , god's me mate"  - translation - Yes , God is my friend .

or for you guys - Yeah god is my buddy , you get th drift .

At times when I'm p*ssed off with my HP , it's a bit difficult for me to even

think about being grateful , let alone have a gratitude list . That's when my

HP lets me get over my 'tanty' , My HP has a good sense of humour .

He sends Pappy all those jokes to cheer me up .



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Rick.

@ 37 I was too young & good looking to be an alkie.

still too young , still got th good looks. still n alkie.



MIP Old Timer

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Came to believe...that a...Power greater than ourselves...could lead us to...sanity.  The cause of my dementia was the chemical alcohol and the thought that I could have a successful, happy life while being drunk.   I needed a Higher Power of thought, feeling and behavior.  From the culture of my birth place which is the culture of my life...the name of that/my Higher Power is Akua...the God of all Gods.   My first higher power in recovery was a door knob.  I was told I could not open any door to recovery without one.   Crucial Question...you betcha!!  your entire sobriety depends on your answer for the time you accept...and use...that answer.  This is a major  leap for you Alcohater.  I'm in support anyway I can be because what's coming for you as a consequence of the search cannot be imagined only.  For me it has surpassed my imagination by leagues.  Thanks for bringing that here.  (((hugs))) smile



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MIP Old Timer

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Hey James!!

 (My stuff)Most of us come to recovery with a whole history of life experiences.Usually that history will determine(to a degree)what kind of understanding we develop of a Power greater than ourselves.In our second Step we find we may not have a whole lot of understanding or specifics about nature or identity of our Higher Power and we see as we do the work, it becomes a process not an event. That Power may change or it may be the same with different relationship developed(my own case)The kind of understanding that is most important to find in our 2nd Step is an understanding that can help us.There are only a couple of requirements ,that the  Power only  be loving,caring and greater than us. WE just want something that works...How Powerful does that have to be? At least as powerful as our addiction was (is) Many of us have actually identified what that Power "is not" before identifying what it is.. Good orderly direction,spiritual principles,the fellowship??? We dont need an understanding at all to be able to use it ...   pg55  Actually we were fooling ourselves,for deep down in every man,woman and child,is the fundamental idea of God...It may be obscured by calamity,by pomp,by worship of other things but in some form or other it is there,,faith in a Power greater than ourselves and miraculous demonstarions of that power in human lives are facts as old as man himself...  Blessings of this day James!!smile



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Selfishness-self-centeredness! That, we think, is the root of our troubles.


MIP Old Timer

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AlcoHater wrote:

Can I just use gratitude for a day of life and not being drunk as a higher power? Thanx-AlcoHater


 Certainly ... as long as you recognize that this 'power to not be drunk' came from somewhere other than you ... it's a start!

(we cannot get and stay sober based on 'self-knowledge') ... We do need to concede there is a power greater than ourselves ... 



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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'



MIP Old Timer

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Does it make sense? Gratitude can be a feeling that comes from self. Self can also stay sober on its own power for short periods, but Self is not a Higher Power than alcohol, for the real alcoholic.

If we have crossed the line and placed our selves beyond human aid, we are faced with a stark choice;- Continue as we are to the bitter end, or accept spritual help. Lee's post tells you the truth of it, but it is not so hard. The key is willingness. Just ask yourself "am I even willing to believe that a power greater than myself exists and might/could restore me to sanity. If you can answer yes it is at least a possibility, you are on your way. From this tiny beginning, amazing things will grow if you carry on with the work. God consciousness as I have come to know it, is a result of the steps. At the start I had no feeling at all for it, just the willingness to give it a try.

God bless,
Mike.

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Fyne Spirit

Walking with curiosity.

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