I was at a meeting last night ( my new home group). A couple of minutes into the meeting 2 members came in and sat directly behind me. Both of these people have a bit of sobriety and are well respected in the group. One of them reached out to me quite a bit when I initially became sober-offering me rides and an open ear. I have since distanced myself from him because I found him a little too eager to be helpful- he began showing up at my job often, telling his dining companions I was in AA... He also began " showing up" at the coffee shop I would kill time in reading the paper between work and meetings. I found him to be very gossipy, and I honestly did not care to hear the dirty details of others in AA unless they themselves chose to discuss these things with me. So he and a female member sit directly behind me at the meeting and proceed to nastily gossip about people at the meeting. Critiquing people's shares and such. They were not attempting to include me, but they were close enough behind me for him to have his foot in my chair ( and shake that foot throughout the meeting- which was also annoying, but I digress lol). I'm the new kid on the block in this group, and I do not want to create issues with people, but I found this behavior extremely childish, unethical and mean- spirited. How would you all have handled it? Was I right to just say nothing?
i am sorry to hear ya ran into what sounds like a predator. not saying anything is enabling them to continue the behavior. set your boundaries. as the big book says, the message that can grasp the attention must have depth and weight, so dont be afaid to be firm with the message that stalking you is not going to be acceptable and there will be consequences. it is the responsibility of us who have been in AA to protect the newcomer. my homegroup does a very good job of protecting the newcomer from sexual and mental/emotional predators. about the gossip: it doesnt matter where ya go, yer gonna find people that do it. not everyone has really made the decision to go to any lengths for victory over alcohol. i stay away from that crap. gossip is character assassination and when i did it, it was to make me feel better about myself. then i started workin the steps. one thing i have done when i have seen the people exhibiting that behavior at a meeting, i have brought it up as a topic. something lke this:'ya know, im rahter new and seem to notice a lot of gossip and predatory behavior. im not finding that in the big book, but sure could use some suggestions about this because if predatory and gossipy behavior is the program, i think i have the wrong big book."
how would i handle it today? if i were to hear of it, i would approach the person with the predatory behavior and let them know it will not be allowed. for the gossip crap, i stay away from them and use it as a good example of a bad example.
Ugh, that is not good and could mean the difference between a newcomer coming back or not if they heard crap like that. I would be of two minds. On the one hand I would probably say nothing and sit nowhere near them next time, but on the other hand I would consider approaching them about it. I really don't know.
How would you all have handled it? Was I right to just say nothing?
I think you did quite well. Did you tell your sponsor about this event?
The oldtimers like to know what's going on so they can "keep all the monkeys in the same tree" if possible.
Our district recently advised all the groups about the behavior of one of the members so the other men could keep an eye on him and intervene if required.
We also don't want to make mountains out of molehills
one thing i have done when i have seen the people exhibiting that behavior at a meeting, i have brought it up as a topic. something lke this:'ya know, im rahter new and seem to notice a lot of gossip and predatory behavior. im not finding that in the big book, but sure could use some suggestions about this because if predatory and gossipy behavior is the program, i think i have the wrong big book."
I love this approach that Tomsteve suggested, and have used it many times ... if the situation were bad enough, I'd share in the meeting and find some way, some how, to get that question out to the group, even if it's 'off' topic ... it sends the wrong message to the newcomer to allow this kind of crap to carry on for long ...
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Dean also had a great post on another thread that I thought had some merit here as well ... :
"frustrations" are mis-spent emotions. The world is what it is. When we hit "problems" we need to only look for solutions. Sometimes there aren't any and we just need to deal with it. It helped me tremendously when I found out what neurotic meant. I was at a large men's meeting and our group was discussing the 2nd step and talking about "insanity". After the meeting, an old timer named "Stretch" told me that we're all nuts and that there was two kinds of insanity. psychotic and neurotic. He went on to say that "psychotics believe that 2+2=5. you can't reach these people. But neurotics, like myself, Know damned well that 2+2=4, but We Don't Like It!
I identified with that strongly. Every time I pull up to a red light, I don't like it. And if you were the s.o.b. that drove slow in front of me and caused me to get stuck at that red light, I don't like you either. Later I realized that I was a "hater". I hated a lot things. Today, I like to laugh at myself and put the hate down.
__________________ Dean
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
I think that doing nothing given the situation was probably the best course to take at the time. In our group settings we need to try and be unselfish, keeping our primary purpose and common welfare in mind. We do not want to escalate.
I might have said something or looked back if it was a male, but I have been a member at my group a long time and know most people pretty well.
Obviously we care about our groups and want to try and minimize destructive and distracting behavior. I would explain the situation to your sponsor and see what she might suggest.
In my experience the best way to handle the situation would be to have a conversation ( in private)with a well respected male group member that would maintain your anonymity, and see if he might have a conversation about the issue with those involved.
The less people involved the less collateral damage and less diversion from primary purpose....just my experience.
Hope this can help, keep the faith!
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Rob
"There ain't no Coupe DeVille hiding in the bottom of a Cracker Jack Box."
Me too! Though I thought Tomsteves idea was a cracker too! You handled it well Col. It sounds like an approach through your sponsor or a respected member of the group might be a good idea. This is not a matter I would expect many newer members could handle and it really is the responsibility of the older ones to make sure the meeting is a safe place for the newcomer to hear the message.
I hope I can add something without coming across as a jim-idiot, but this story bothered me, too. There's a time and place for the foolishness mentioned, but DURING A MEETING?! This dude sounds to me like a love-sick alky, way too pathetic! Take the great advice from the good folks above and , really, keep wary of this guy. He may be a danger to your sobriety, something you really don't need!-AlcoHater
I would've got up, got some coffee and sat down somewhere else
Quoted for truth
move my butt and my mind
In the fourth step it talks about resentments and bickering, something along the lines of as in War, the moments of victory are short lived and the victor only seems to win, for me that includes my own mind, I don't do "rightous indignation" well...or....I do it too well, so I try to avoid it, and I do notice move my butt and my mind will follow.
A horse was tied outside a shop in a narrow Chinese village street. Whenever anyone would try to walk by, the horse would kick him. Before long, a small crowd of villagers had gathered near the shop, arguing about how best to get past the dangerous horse. Suddenly, someone came running. The Old Master is coming! he shouted. Hell know what to do!
The crowd watched eagerly as the Old Master came around the corner, saw the horse, turned, and walked down another street.
The truth of the matter is my mind is hard wired to notice and focus and dwell in negativity, I actually have to take action to curtail that, like moving my fanny and directing my attention elsewhere, took me a lot of years to learn how to do what Pete just said there, learn to walk down streets with horses that don't kick you, takes being truly present and paying attention to what I am focusing on, like the doctor, addict, alcoholic story where he talks about if he focuses on the problem, the problem increases, if he focuses on the solution, the solution increases. What do I want to focus on?
I am an old man and have known a great many troubles, but most of them never happened. - Mark Twain
-- Edited by LinBabaAgo-go on Thursday 28th of February 2013 08:38:50 AM
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Light a man a fire and he's warm for a night, set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life
Colleen, now that you've figured out that he likes to sit in the back (presumably where he can rudely talk during the meeting), get there a bit earlier and sit right up front next to the chairperson. My first sponsor got me into that habit pretty quickly. Many of the meetings have a table or two with chairs around it, then more chairs strewn around the walls of the room. If you sit up front near the chair, no one will bother you.
-- Edited by StPeteDean on Thursday 28th of February 2013 12:01:39 PM
Thanks for all the replies and great advice. DEAN... Ahh, the simple solution! It's true that we/I tend to focus on the negative. I must admit that with this particular individual I was overwhelmed and unclear how to set boundaries when I initially encountered him 9 months ago. Though I thought His behavior strange, I was unsure how to set any boundaries and played victim for a bit before I realized I can simply choose not to deal with him. At that point in time I was under the very naive impression that anyone who was established in AA was an enlightened individual motivated by spiritual principles to help one another. In a perfect world, right? I have since revised this opinion in light of several not so enlightening experiences haha. Anyway, yes I could have easily gotten up and moved- and I have been known to do this once or twice ( in regards to this particular individual). I think my motivation for not doing so during the meeting mentioned was stubbornness. I came with a friend I was sitting with. The truth of the matter is that I could have simply moved and I wouldn't be writing this post, because there wouldn't be an issue. My question now is, how long do I switch seats to accommodate this individual? Truth be told, he moved another chair to position himself behind me when there were plenty of open seats available. Im not playing victim by thinking he did this to be near me.. I think he may have just wanted to sit in back. I also don't want to have to go running to another male member in the group like some powerless little girl, yknow? Im still struggling with ways of setting appropriate boundaries that doesnt include a confrontation and anger. The old me wouldve been more than happy to tell this guy where to go and display my misplaced anger and self- righteousness. I'm trying to find the middle ground.
Col - going to an elder man is not running around like a powerless little girl. It's knowing the 'next right thing' to do according to our principles, some written, some unwritten - like men sticking to men - and then acting upon it. This is about being able to take care of yourself by asking for help, and feeling empowered to not really care what other people think of you - it's none of your business ; )
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
BTW - my sponsor did this FOR ME when I was having trouble with the man with 33 yrs of sobriety. I talked to her about it, and without even telling me until after it was done, she went to an elder man in that group to have a talk with him... and then informed me that it should be taken care of... and it was... and actually - he had been doing this to other woman, and has gotten a lot better (from what is seen anyway). So my doing the next right thing, and my sponsor doing the proper thing about it has created a chain reaction of better experiences for other newcomers...
remember that at this point - your only job is to just be sober - you are still considered a newcomer
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Correction - YOU AND I are still considered newcomers ; )
I have 11 months and you have 9 - we're like my little daughter who goes to me the other day "when I was a little girl, I loved pooh bear right mama?" She's Three.
We're like 3 year olds yet, who think we're getting so grown up but we're actually still just teensy in this program... love you COL - you rock sobriety - so thanks for the share!
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Thanks for everything. Peace and Love on your journey.
Ugh. I would be so out of there. I've abandoned meetings for far lesser crimes.
My two cents. It's not Ohio in 1935 and we have to drive 600 miles to get a little serenity. We live near way too many meetings to put up with gossipy bratty b.s. like that. If you're seriously attached to this meeting and want to keep it as your homegroup, you might go to the next business meeting and make a motion to amend the notes of the meeting in the group conscience and have them remind the chatty Cathys that conversations have a way of carrying in the hall, so if you need to talk please take it OUTSIDE.
That would be great Dean ... but better yet, volunteer to be 'Discussion Leader' ... often ... then the topics are yours to start with ... and now you have a pocket full of topics ... HeeeHeee ... ... ... (just don't let that 'control' go to your head, LOL ...)
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
Hey Col, I like all the above answers, but ultimately I am sorry you even have to go through this. You have some good choices to choose from, and that is the beauty of this site. I would just offer a slight variation on Dean's solution. (No one on this site seems to like my favorite attitude adjustment tool, the "air horn"). I would have stood up, blasted the air horn at them and said "Hey a-hole, get your freakin feet off my chair, and if you stalk me again, I'm gonna tell your mother". THEN I would walk over and get a cup of coffee and change seats. I just thought I would throw that out there. Tom
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"You're in the right place. That's the door right there. Turn around."
The more I read Tom's solution, the more I like it ... Embarress the S.O.B. ... maybe that'll get his attention ... HeeeHeee ... I damn sure wouldn't do it again ... LOL
besides, with the air horn, half the group is going to have to go pee, if they haven't already ... Ha!
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'Those who leave everything in God's hand will eventually see God's hand in everything.'
After much careful thought was given to the advice and words of wisdom given by those with more experience than myself I've decided that the air horn idea WINS:) thanks Tom!
For the immediate situation in the moment, I'd probably turn around and go with "Hey, could you keep it down a little--I can't hear. Thanks. Oh, and by the way, please stop jiggling my chair. Thanks (delivered without any scowl or attitude or apology-just neutral and matter-of-fact.)
